[FrogMan]

Let me preface everything I'll type in here by saying I'm an absolute newbie to video editing and I'm still learning with every post and/or article I read about it. I just bought an HP Pabillion a1540n computer and while I have a JVC DVD recorder connected to the TV, this is the first time I dabble into the world of computer aided video editing and DVD burning. In addition to the DVD recorder that I use to record TV shows, I also have a JVC MiniDV camcorder which I use for family purposes. Right now I burn from the camera to the DVD recorder and then work with the files on the computer.

With my computer came MyDVD version 6.2 plus (from Sonic), which I think is sort of the ancestor to EMC9 (correct me if I'm wrong) since I see that EMC9 now includes MyDVD 9. Anyway, one thing I have seen while working with MyDVD6.2 is that as soon as I edit a video that I have imported into a project, for example to cut some ads or even simply add some transitions between scenes I filmed with the MiniDV cam, well the size of the movie increases dramatically. I think I remember reading somewhere that it was because MyDVD was reencoding with a higher bitrate or something like that, but that this would be corrected in future versions. Also, the fact it's the "plus" version seems to mean that the "fit-to-disk" quality setting has been disabled and it's saying I should upgrade to some "deluxe" version.

Could somebody confirm to me that this is not the case anymore, this increasing in size of the movie once you as simply as do one little editing task on it?

I currently find it very frustrating because say I record two one hour episode of some TV show on SP setting, using most of the DVD space, then bring them into MyDVD to cut the ads and boom, can't make a DVD anymore because they've jumped up in size. Unless there's something I don't understand, I'd think I should be able to fit them back to the DVD, at least at the SP quality setting...

I am seriously thinking about getting EMC9 and just that confirmation could mean I'll go get it tomorrow as it's currently bundled with 50 Sony DVD+R at Staples

Thanks in advance.

FM

[ggrussell]

I would think that most people would agree with your logic. Unfortunately, the real world doesn't always work that way. Digital video editing can be picky at times and most of the time, doesn't work the way you would expect. I have a LitOn set top recorder that I use sometimes for similar purposes. 'Sometimes' when I edit a 2hr mode video, Videowave will want to re-render it. Sometimes it doesn't. I haven't been able to figure out the magic combination. However when I use that same file in MyDVD to create a video DVD, it doesn't re-render at all. So it has something to do with the editing process (cutting out comercials or whatever).

Editing MPEG 2 files also can cause other problems like out of sync video/audio. I also find that editing MPEG files is much slower than DV AVI files capture directly from a digital camcorder. This is because MPEG 2 are compressed more and must be 'decompressed' on the fly for editing.

Make sure your computer exceeds the minimum requirements. Especially make sure that you have a good video card. EMC9 REQURIES Directx9c support. You'll have much less problems if you have a real video card and not just the chipset on the motherboard.

This post has been edited by ggrussell: 21 October 2006 - 07:08 PM

[lehill]

FrogMan, on Oct 21 2006, 07:47 PM, said:

I currently find it very frustrating because say I record two one hour episode of some TV show on SP setting, using most of the DVD space, then bring them into MyDVD to cut the ads and boom, can't make a DVD anymore because they've jumped up in size. Unless there's something I don't understand, I'd think I should be able to fit them back to the DVD, at least at the SP quality setting...

I am seriously thinking about getting EMC9 and just that confirmation could mean I'll go get it tomorrow as it's currently bundled with 50 Sony DVD+R at Staples

As we're so fond of saying here - size means nothing in video editing. Time is a better indicator of whether a project will fit on a DVD. EMC will convert the file to DVD-compliant MPEG and try to use the best bitrate (or quality setting) it can to make it fit to a DVD. You can get about 1 hr of "SP" quality onto a regular DVD no matter what size file you're using. Almost 2 hr with high compression but lower quality.

Where people get into trouble is when they have a 3hr DivX file that's only 10KB in size (or something like that) and wonder why MyDVD can't fit it on a DVD.

Just a suggestion, do something really simple for your first project and use a DVD-RW so you can make all the mistakes you want without making coasters. Use VideoWave to edit out the commercials and MyDVD to create ("author") the DVD. Have a good video card with the latest drivers and the latest DirectX from MS. Use the tutorials and ask a lot of questions.

Lance
*****

[FrogMan]

ggrussell, on Oct 21 2006, 07:06 PM, said:

I would think that most people would agree with your logic. Unfortunately, the real world doesn't always work that way. Digital video editing can be picky at times and most of the time, doesn't work the way you would expect. I have a LitOn set top recorder that I use sometimes for similar purposes. 'Sometimes' when I edit a 2hr mode video, Videowave will want to re-render it. Sometimes it doesn't. I haven't been able to figure out the magic combination. However when I use that same file in MyDVD to create a video DVD, it doesn't re-render at all. So it has something to do with the editing process (cutting out comercials or whatever).

Thanks for replying Gary. I see what you mean since I just tried to make it happen and even though I edited one file (cut 3 minutes off it) the size didn't increase this time... odd...

ggrussell, on Oct 21 2006, 07:06 PM, said:

Editing MPEG 2 files also can cause other problems like out of sync video/audio. I also find that editing MPEG files is much slower than DV AVI files capture directly from a digital camcorder. This is because MPEG 2 are compressed more and must be 'decompressed' on the fly for editing.

So are you saying I'd be way better off getting a firewire cable and hooking up my MiniDV to my computer to capture the video there? My computer has a firewire port in front that would make that easy but since the only way I'd every known to get the filmed stuff out of the camera was with the set top recorder, I just kept going that way. Good point about it beind compressed.

ggrussell, on Oct 21 2006, 07:06 PM, said:

Make sure your computer exceeds the minimum requirements. Especially make sure that you have a good video card. EMC9 REQURIES Directx9c support. You'll have much less problems if you have a real video card and not just the chipset on the motherboard.

As for the specs of the computer, I don't think it'll be a problem. It's an AMD X2 4200+ with 2GB RAM and a 250GB HD, so as I said, not much problem there. The video card however is the chipset on the motherboard, Nvidia GeForce 6150 LE. Looking at dxdiag, I see that DirectX version 9.0c is installed. What kind of problem could I run into with no "real" video card? I'm not a big gamer, mostly into sport sims with big databases but little video effects, so the video card isn't a real need for me.

Thanks again for your help.

FM

[grandpabruce]

FrogMan, on Oct 21 2006, 10:21 PM, said:

Thanks for replying Gary. I see what you mean since I just tried to make it happen and even though I edited one file (cut 3 minutes off it) the size didn't increase this time... odd...
So are you saying I'd be way better off getting a firewire cable and hooking up my MiniDV to my computer to capture the video there? My computer has a firewire port in front that would make that easy but since the only way I'd every known to get the filmed stuff out of the camera was with the set top recorder, I just kept going that way. Good point about it beind compressed.
As for the specs of the computer, I don't think it'll be a problem. It's an AMD X2 4200+ with 2GB RAM and a 250GB HD, so as I said, not much problem there. The video card however is the chipset on the motherboard, Nvidia GeForce 6150 LE. Looking at dxdiag, I see that DirectX version 9.0c is installed. What kind of problem could I run into with no "real" video card? I'm not a big gamer, mostly into sport sims with big databases but little video effects, so the video card isn't a real need for me.

Thanks again for your help.

FM

The problem that you will run into with the video card has nothing at all to do with not being a gamer. Most video onboard chipsets don't totally support DirectX 9, which is a requirement of EMC, going back to version 7.

[FrogMan]

lehill, on Oct 21 2006, 07:16 PM, said:

As we're so fond of saying here - size means nothing in video editing. Time is a better indicator of whether a project will fit on a DVD. EMC will convert the file to DVD-compliant MPEG and try to use the best bitrate (or quality setting) it can to make it fit to a DVD. You can get about 1 hr of "SP" quality onto a regular DVD no matter what size file you're using. Almost 2 hr with high compression but lower quality.

Where people get into trouble is when they have a 3hr DivX file that's only 10KB in size (or something like that) and wonder why MyDVD can't fit it on a DVD.

Just a suggestion, do something really simple for your first project and use a DVD-RW so you can make all the mistakes you want without making coasters. Use VideoWave to edit out the commercials and MyDVD to create ("author") the DVD. Have a good video card with the latest drivers and the latest DirectX from MS. Use the tutorials and ask a lot of questions.

Lance
*****

Not sure I get everything you are saying, but some of it makes sense to me

And yeah, I'm trying out MyDVD 6.2 with DVD+RW I have actually done my first project and was able to burn and replay it in the set top. That's what has me encouraged to keep on playing with it...

Thanks for your reply.

FM

[ggrussell]

I just checked HP's website and your computer has an ASUS mobo. I checked ASUStek and nVidia website. Appears the Geforce 6150 'chipset' is a combo chip that includes the 6150 GPU and the nForce 430MCP. The 6150 has full DirectX support with nVidia Pure Video , HiDef MPEG 2 and HD WMV hardware acceleration. So you shouldn't have any trouble with the video chipset. Make sure you have the latest nVidia driver 91.47 and the latest DirectX 9 (oct2006). Also wouldn't hurt to download the latest nForce drivers while you're at it.

As for your family video, I find it much easier and faster to capture via firewire and let MyDVD do the rendering. I suppose it just depends on how much editing you really do like cuts, transitions, text or special effects, picture in picture, etc. Simple stuff should be fine with MPEG files, but I certainly wouldn't use MPEG for lots of heavy editing.

[FrogMan]

grandpabruce, on Oct 21 2006, 07:26 PM, said:

The problem that you will run into with the video card has nothing at all to do with not being a gamer. Most video onboard chipsets don't totally support DirectX 9, which is a requirement of EMC, going back to version 7.

Aha, I see. As I said, the chipset my motherboard has is an Nvidia GeForce 6150 LE. From DxDiag, I have found that DirectX 9.0c is indeed installed and by pure luck, I have seen that another member from here with the basic same chipset apparently had burning problems at first but after updating his drivers was able to use EMC9 to burn a project to disk. See this thread for his specs.

As I said, his card shows the exact same thing as mine, up to the driver version, at least before he updated his. I'm thinking if I update mine, I should be good to go...

Thanks for your reply, very informative.

You guys know your stuff, I think I have found a goldmine of information here :thumbsup:

FM

ggrussell, on Oct 21 2006, 08:03 PM, said:

I just checked HP's website and your computer has an ASUS mobo. I checked ASUStek and nVidia website. Appears the Geforce 6150 'chipset' is a combo chip that includes the 6150 GPU and the nForce 430MCP. The 6150 has full DirectX support with nVidia Pure Video , HiDef MPEG 2 and HD WMV hardware acceleration. So you shouldn't have any trouble with the video chipset. Make sure you have the latest nVidia driver 91.47 and the latest DirectX 9 (oct2006). Also wouldn't hurt to download the latest nForce drivers while you're at it.

As for your family video, I find it much easier and faster to capture via firewire and let MyDVD do the rendering. I suppose it just depends on how much editing you really do like cuts, transitions, text or special effects, picture in picture, etc. Simple stuff should be fine with MPEG files, but I certainly wouldn't use MPEG for lots of heavy editing.

wow, talk about making the sale, great checkup on your part Gary, much appreciated!

Seriously, this is reassuring to see that you were able to come to that conclusion. I probably would have been able to draw the same conclusion, after much research and probbing, and would have maybe still had a doubt but you really seem to know what you're talking about. As I just posted, a goldmine of info in here.

I've taken good notes regarding the family videos. I'm probably never gonna do heavy editing, but might get tempted to get one of thos firewire cables to try it one day. My editing is most of the time simply cutting into separate scenes, adding transitions, some pretty basic stuff, at least for now. Who knows in the future

FM

[Racedvd]

Along these lines,is it posible to capture video FROM a DVD Builder created DVD ? I have several DVD's that I created using DVD builder and would like at this time to take portions ofthese videos,that i no longer have the original tape of and create a new video, this is I believe a function of Adobe Production. Any thoughts on this?

FrogMan, on Oct 21 2006, 08:17 PM, said:

Aha, I see. As I said, the chipset my motherboard has is an Nvidia GeForce 6150 LE. From DxDiag, I have found that DirectX 9.0c is indeed installed and by pure luck, I have seen that another member from here with the basic same chipset apparently had burning problems at first but after updating his drivers was able to use EMC9 to burn a project to disk. See this thread for his specs.

As I said, his card shows the exact same thing as mine, up to the driver version, at least before he updated his. I'm thinking if I update mine, I should be good to go...

Thanks for your reply, very informative.

You guys know your stuff, I think I have found a goldmine of information here :thumbsup:

FM
wow, talk about making the sale, great checkup on your part Gary, much appreciated!

Seriously, this is reassuring to see that you were able to come to that conclusion. I probably would have been able to draw the same conclusion, after much research and probbing, and would have maybe still had a doubt but you really seem to know what you're talking about. As I just posted, a goldmine of info in here.

I've taken good notes regarding the family videos. I'm probably never gonna do heavy editing, but might get tempted to get one of thos firewire cables to try it one day. My editing is most of the time simply cutting into separate scenes, adding transitions, some pretty basic stuff, at least for now. Who knows in the future

FM

[Larry]

Racedvd, on Oct 25 2006, 10:10 PM, said:

Along these lines,is it posible to capture video FROM a DVD Builder created DVD ? I have several DVD's that I created using DVD builder and would like at this time to take portions ofthese videos,that i no longer have the original tape of and create a new video, this is I believe a function of Adobe Production. Any thoughts on this?

Yes you should be able to use Media Import to capture it from those DVD's to video file(s) on your hard drive that you can then edit and reburn in new productions.

[Racedvd]

Media Import? is this part of 9? I am unfamiliar with it.

Larry, on Oct 25 2006, 07:19 PM, said:

Yes you should be able to use Media Import to capture it from those DVD's to video file(s) on your hard drive that you can then edit and reburn in new productions.

[malatekid]

Racedvd, on Oct 26 2006, 06:55 AM, said:

Media Import? is this part of 9? I am unfamiliar with it.

Yes, it is one of the applications in EMC9.

[Racedvd]

Is it new to 9? I am familiar with 7.5 as it is the only version I can make work on my HP currently. That is why I am concidering updating to 9 in hopes i can make it work with the help I have recieved here.

malatekid, on Oct 26 2006, 03:28 AM, said:

Yes, it is one of the applications in EMC9.

[malatekid]

Racedvd, on Oct 26 2006, 08:06 AM, said:

Is it new to 9? I am familiar with 7.5 as it is the only version I can make work on my HP currently. That is why I am concidering updating to 9 in hopes i can make it work with the help I have recieved here.

It is the equivalent of the Capture program in EMC7.5

[Racedvd]

Does 9 still support multiple DVD burners, "multiple destinations?"

Racedvd, on Oct 26 2006, 04:06 AM, said:

Is it new to 9? I am familiar with 7.5 as it is the only version I can make work on my HP currently. That is why I am concidering updating to 9 in hopes i can make it work with the help I have recieved here.

[malatekid]

Racedvd, on Oct 26 2006, 08:30 AM, said:

Does 9 still support multiple DVD burners, "multiple destinations?"

Yes, it does. (Image borrowed from Terry's)

[FrogMan]

Racedvd, on Oct 25 2006, 07:10 PM, said:

Along these lines,is it posible to capture video FROM a DVD Builder created DVD ? I have several DVD's that I created using DVD builder and would like at this time to take portions ofthese videos,that i no longer have the original tape of and create a new video, this is I believe a function of Adobe Production. Any thoughts on this?

simply for my personal knowledge, by "a DVD Builder created DVD", do you mean something that you authored with DVD Builder, then burned? If so, wouldn't the structure of the DVD now have the video_ts folder and a bunch of .VOB files?

I know nothing about the media import app in EMC9, so I can't help on that. As a follow up to my first enquiry, thanks to the help I received from the nice people here, I ended up buying EMC9 on Sunday. I'm still in the process of mostly fooling around with it, but so far it's going well.

I've had some issues with audio sync when cutting out portions of a video that was first recorded with my JVC Set top recorder. I was editing straight out of the .VOB file but I think I have found a workaround. I first convert the VOB to an MPEG2 file and then edit that one. Seems not to suffer as much from out of sync audio. Quick question though: am I losing any quality by doing a straight convert from .vob to mpeg2?

FM

[Larry]

Racedvd, on Oct 26 2006, 05:55 AM, said:

Media Import? is this part of 9? I am unfamiliar with it.

Yes it's part of 9, 8, 7.5, and 7 (it's called Capture in 7/7.5). It's the program for importing content from various sources (like a dvd disc) to file(s) on the hard drive.

FrogMan, on Oct 26 2006, 07:42 AM, said:

simply for my personal knowledge, by "a DVD Builder created DVD", do you mean something that you authored with DVD Builder, then burned? If so, wouldn't the structure of the DVD now have the video_ts folder and a bunch of .VOB files?

I know nothing about the media import app in EMC9, so I can't help on that. As a follow up to my first enquiry, thanks to the help I received from the nice people here, I ended up buying EMC9 on Sunday. I'm still in the process of mostly fooling around with it, but so far it's going well.

I've had some issues with audio sync when cutting out portions of a video that was first recorded with my JVC Set top recorder. I was editing straight out of the .VOB file but I think I have found a workaround. I first convert the VOB to an MPEG2 file and then edit that one. Seems not to suffer as much from out of sync audio. Quick question though: am I losing any quality by doing a straight convert from .vob to mpeg2?

FM

While Media Import is the best way to get video from dvd discs to your hard drive, copying and renaming vob to mpg works for some (not all). There is no loss in doing the renaming, since a vob file is an mpeg file.

[ggrussell]

In EMC 9, we no longer have to rename VOB files since they can be used directly in Videowave and MyDVD.

This post has been edited by ggrussell: 26 October 2006 - 05:25 AM

[FrogMan]

Larry, on Oct 26 2006, 05:17 AM, said:

Yes it's part of 9, 8, 7.5, and 7 (it's called Capture in 7/7.5). It's the program for importing content from various sources (like a dvd disc) to file(s) on the hard drive.

While Media Import is the best way to get video from dvd discs to your hard drive, copying and renaming vob to mpg works for some (not all). There is no loss in doing the renaming, since a vob file is an mpeg file.

So, in the case of an import from a DVD, Media Import is like a DVD ripper, say similar to DVD Decrypter?

I'm not at home, so I can't confirm the exact name of the thing, but what I used to maka copy of my .vob to mpeg2 was something called Video Convert, is it the same thing? I know I didn't simply rename the file, I had them converted to mpeg2 via that video convert thing...

FM