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I went to some trouble for the benefit of the members of this forum to detail the nightmare of having installed EMC8 on my Window XP computer. I find now that my discussion topic has been removed. I guess Roxio can't live with the truth about their defective product.
To reiterate: EMC8 has wasted my time & my money (not including the $99 I paid for the software itself) over a period of months since I purchased it. After struggling to find a way to get some value out of this package, I finally gave up and uninstalled it. Here are just the most glaring examples of what went wrong when I tried to use this package:
1. Content converted using Roxio sometimes failed completely (for example, MPEG slices from a larger .mpg video). In one case, the DVD produced worked nominally, but the originally high-quality audio track was garbled and degraded.
2. It is necessary to constantly (like every 2 minutes) save your work when using the video editor because it can crash at any time.
3. The user interface to the DVD menu editing software is counter-intuitive and cumbersome to use. Worse, simple editing functions like "drag-select" don't work reliably (maybe half the time). So, for example, if you want to change the font on a phrase or title, you try clicking on the text and dragging, and it won't allow you to even get to the end of the line. You end up having to edit the line in pieces. This is just crummy programming, plain and simple.
4. I tried to create a data DVD with Roxio, and it worked. The only problem: with EMC8 installed on my system, clicking on the drive letter of the DVD resulted in an empty screen (no root directory). Tried the same thing on an adjacent XP system, and it worked fine (but Roxio not installed on that one).
I finally decided to uninstall EMC8 completely, and now my system seems to be working smoothly again. No more unwanted background processes, and I can see root directories in data DVD's. One of the reasons consumers don't like to pay for software is that there are too many companies like Roxio out there who ship out poorly engineered (and possibly never QA'ed) software, and then make it their customers problem to figure out what's wrong with it. Later, after possibly fixing some things, they release a new version, and expect the schlumps who bought the previous version to pay more to get it fixed.
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Defective Software
#2
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Posted 07 November 2006 - 10:44 AM
I am curious as to what troubleshooting steps have already been taken?
#3
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Posted 07 November 2006 - 12:01 PM
John, thanks for your response.
I purchased EMC8 in June (I believe). My first impression of the software was very good. I used it sparingly at first, but gradually began to investigate it's features and thought I might have found a very useful tool. I didn't keep a log of the problems I encountered, so I can't rigorously prove each individual point. However, I'll summarize them for you in roughly sequential order:
1. The first thing I noticed was that a source video (captured by the Plextor ConvertX USB device) came out the other end with the audio degraded. At first I thought maybe this was a case of "garbage-in", but upon checking the original, it was clear that the end product had been damaged somehow in the process of creating the DVD. I tested that by taking the very same video and generating a DVD using NERO, and got a perfect copy. This concerned me alot, since I don't know how one would program in distortion where there was none to begin with, even if that was the goal. But I simply took note of it and continued using EMC8.
2. The second thing I noticed was that the GUI to the DVD menu editor was a mess. I found myself trying all sorts of tricks to accomplish what are normally routine tasks: changing fonts, applying different colors to fonts, cutting and pasting menu selection objects. In spite of this, I was able to make it work, so I kept using it. In the process of using it, I discovered that EMC8 is arguably even worse than MS Movie Maker in terms of suddenly hanging, taking a long time to re-organize it's buffers (or whatever it's doing), and often as not, failing completely. And even MSMM does a pretty good job of recovering an open-edit, while EMC8 doesn't even try. I discovered that the amount of time elapsed since the last save doesn't seem to help either. EMC8 seems just as likely to crash if you've been editing for 90 seconds, as 15 minutes.
3. Another annoying behavior showed up when I tried to insert arbitrary chapter markers into a lengthy .mpg video. My theory was that some of the older DVD players don't like "one big chapter", so I figured I'd break the thing up a little in case that was causing some of the anomalistic behavior when trying to play these things back on generic home-video equipment. I discovered that these chapter boundaries seem to trash some part of the content, fade to black, then resume, which is effectively creating damage to the original content.
4. The last straw came when I realized that EMC8 had so thoroughly infiltrated my XP environment with it's own background tasks, that even a generic data DVD could not be read properly (a DVD created by EMC8). Even then I was reluctant to remove it because I do believe that many of the features of the product are creative and useful. However I opted to remove it, primarily because (given that Windows itself is riddled with it's own bugs and performance anomalies), clearly Roxio is attempting to take over as many media related functions from the OS as possible, and therefore given any unexplained problem with any program, I would have to troubleshoot Roxio as well as Microsoft, and I'm not prepared to take that on. I don't think I should have to.
The reason I bought this package in the first place was that I had a history of using Roxio in the past (I believe Roxio had something to do with the Adaptec drivers) and those legacy products had seemed to perform reliably. I was not expecting the package to be perfect, but eventually the accumulation of defects reached a breaking point. Even then, my first impulse was to write (this) e-mail and send it to someone at Roxio who might be able to explain and/or remedy some of this. However, your website is constructed with the clear intention of making it as difficult as possible for a customer to use up anyone's time in your tech support group, and I was never able to find a simple e-mail address I could use. Hence I decided to post the information to your forum.
With 28 years of programming experience, I can recognize the symptoms of a poorly managed software engineering group. For what it's worth, the NERO software exhibits many of the same characteristics, particularly the inclination to "roll your own" GUI, and fail to support some of the clear standards which have emerged in terms of GUI's generally, and particularly for video editing. In fact, absent the system level defects, I preferred working with EMC8 over NERO. On the other hand, while it is cumbersome, once a project is created, NERO seems very reliable in delivering a usable end-result.
If I may offer some suggestions:
1. Whatever background tasks you wish to offer with the package, require the user to choose to use them, and be very sure you disclose what OS-level functionality may be affected by them. And I would apply the highest possible QA standards to any module of that type.
2. The same goes for your content manipulation internals. It is devastating to invest time in a project, only to discover much later that the content itself may have been degraded, and potentially large numbers of copies of things have been produced which include those defects.
3. Aggressively try to weed out GUI anomalies and embrace whatever standards appear to be forming in this market segment. Innovative features are great, but I (as an expert user) am no more tolerant of having to figure out someone's idiosyncratic GUI than a novice. And whatever you do, make sure the GUI works reliably: Not being able to drag the cursor over the last character of a word is inexcusable, and sends a message about the competance of your programming staff which I don't think benefits the company.
Thanks again for writing back.
-Ted Thomas
PS:Unless someone engages in profanity, pulling their posting off your forum because it's critical of your product basically misrepresents the very concept of a "forum". One could make the case that this is false and misleading advertising. The whole point of having a forum is to allow customers and potential customers to see what the user community for your product has to say about it. If you remove a posting because it alleges defects exist in your product, it's not much different from the CFO of a company concealing negative financial information. Every so often I have occasion to discuss our industry with Senator Ron Wyden, who is very knowledgeable of the Internet and the software industry, and who has done a good job of requiring sanity on the part of Congress where regulations are concerned. Shipping out defective software and then attempting to charge people more money in order to get a product which works reliably (if indeed the new product does work reliably) is one of the few areas where I would like to see the federal government get involved, and I plan to tell him so. I plan to use my experience with Roxio as a case in point.
I purchased EMC8 in June (I believe). My first impression of the software was very good. I used it sparingly at first, but gradually began to investigate it's features and thought I might have found a very useful tool. I didn't keep a log of the problems I encountered, so I can't rigorously prove each individual point. However, I'll summarize them for you in roughly sequential order:
1. The first thing I noticed was that a source video (captured by the Plextor ConvertX USB device) came out the other end with the audio degraded. At first I thought maybe this was a case of "garbage-in", but upon checking the original, it was clear that the end product had been damaged somehow in the process of creating the DVD. I tested that by taking the very same video and generating a DVD using NERO, and got a perfect copy. This concerned me alot, since I don't know how one would program in distortion where there was none to begin with, even if that was the goal. But I simply took note of it and continued using EMC8.
2. The second thing I noticed was that the GUI to the DVD menu editor was a mess. I found myself trying all sorts of tricks to accomplish what are normally routine tasks: changing fonts, applying different colors to fonts, cutting and pasting menu selection objects. In spite of this, I was able to make it work, so I kept using it. In the process of using it, I discovered that EMC8 is arguably even worse than MS Movie Maker in terms of suddenly hanging, taking a long time to re-organize it's buffers (or whatever it's doing), and often as not, failing completely. And even MSMM does a pretty good job of recovering an open-edit, while EMC8 doesn't even try. I discovered that the amount of time elapsed since the last save doesn't seem to help either. EMC8 seems just as likely to crash if you've been editing for 90 seconds, as 15 minutes.
3. Another annoying behavior showed up when I tried to insert arbitrary chapter markers into a lengthy .mpg video. My theory was that some of the older DVD players don't like "one big chapter", so I figured I'd break the thing up a little in case that was causing some of the anomalistic behavior when trying to play these things back on generic home-video equipment. I discovered that these chapter boundaries seem to trash some part of the content, fade to black, then resume, which is effectively creating damage to the original content.
4. The last straw came when I realized that EMC8 had so thoroughly infiltrated my XP environment with it's own background tasks, that even a generic data DVD could not be read properly (a DVD created by EMC8). Even then I was reluctant to remove it because I do believe that many of the features of the product are creative and useful. However I opted to remove it, primarily because (given that Windows itself is riddled with it's own bugs and performance anomalies), clearly Roxio is attempting to take over as many media related functions from the OS as possible, and therefore given any unexplained problem with any program, I would have to troubleshoot Roxio as well as Microsoft, and I'm not prepared to take that on. I don't think I should have to.
The reason I bought this package in the first place was that I had a history of using Roxio in the past (I believe Roxio had something to do with the Adaptec drivers) and those legacy products had seemed to perform reliably. I was not expecting the package to be perfect, but eventually the accumulation of defects reached a breaking point. Even then, my first impulse was to write (this) e-mail and send it to someone at Roxio who might be able to explain and/or remedy some of this. However, your website is constructed with the clear intention of making it as difficult as possible for a customer to use up anyone's time in your tech support group, and I was never able to find a simple e-mail address I could use. Hence I decided to post the information to your forum.
With 28 years of programming experience, I can recognize the symptoms of a poorly managed software engineering group. For what it's worth, the NERO software exhibits many of the same characteristics, particularly the inclination to "roll your own" GUI, and fail to support some of the clear standards which have emerged in terms of GUI's generally, and particularly for video editing. In fact, absent the system level defects, I preferred working with EMC8 over NERO. On the other hand, while it is cumbersome, once a project is created, NERO seems very reliable in delivering a usable end-result.
If I may offer some suggestions:
1. Whatever background tasks you wish to offer with the package, require the user to choose to use them, and be very sure you disclose what OS-level functionality may be affected by them. And I would apply the highest possible QA standards to any module of that type.
2. The same goes for your content manipulation internals. It is devastating to invest time in a project, only to discover much later that the content itself may have been degraded, and potentially large numbers of copies of things have been produced which include those defects.
3. Aggressively try to weed out GUI anomalies and embrace whatever standards appear to be forming in this market segment. Innovative features are great, but I (as an expert user) am no more tolerant of having to figure out someone's idiosyncratic GUI than a novice. And whatever you do, make sure the GUI works reliably: Not being able to drag the cursor over the last character of a word is inexcusable, and sends a message about the competance of your programming staff which I don't think benefits the company.
Thanks again for writing back.
-Ted Thomas
PS:Unless someone engages in profanity, pulling their posting off your forum because it's critical of your product basically misrepresents the very concept of a "forum". One could make the case that this is false and misleading advertising. The whole point of having a forum is to allow customers and potential customers to see what the user community for your product has to say about it. If you remove a posting because it alleges defects exist in your product, it's not much different from the CFO of a company concealing negative financial information. Every so often I have occasion to discuss our industry with Senator Ron Wyden, who is very knowledgeable of the Internet and the software industry, and who has done a good job of requiring sanity on the part of Congress where regulations are concerned. Shipping out defective software and then attempting to charge people more money in order to get a product which works reliably (if indeed the new product does work reliably) is one of the few areas where I would like to see the federal government get involved, and I plan to tell him so. I plan to use my experience with Roxio as a case in point.
cosmotopper, on Nov 6 2006, 06:10 PM, said:
I went to some trouble for the benefit of the members of this forum to detail the nightmare of having installed EMC8 on my Window XP computer. I find now that my discussion topic has been removed. I guess Roxio can't live with the truth about their defective product.
To reiterate: EMC8 has wasted my time & my money (not including the $99 I paid for the software itself) over a period of months since I purchased it. After struggling to find a way to get some value out of this package, I finally gave up and uninstalled it. Here are just the most glaring examples of what went wrong when I tried to use this package:
1. Content converted using Roxio sometimes failed completely (for example, MPEG slices from a larger .mpg video). In one case, the DVD produced worked nominally, but the originally high-quality audio track was garbled and degraded.
2. It is necessary to constantly (like every 2 minutes) save your work when using the video editor because it can crash at any time.
3. The user interface to the DVD menu editing software is counter-intuitive and cumbersome to use. Worse, simple editing functions like "drag-select" don't work reliably (maybe half the time). So, for example, if you want to change the font on a phrase or title, you try clicking on the text and dragging, and it won't allow you to even get to the end of the line. You end up having to edit the line in pieces. This is just crummy programming, plain and simple.
4. I tried to create a data DVD with Roxio, and it worked. The only problem: with EMC8 installed on my system, clicking on the drive letter of the DVD resulted in an empty screen (no root directory). Tried the same thing on an adjacent XP system, and it worked fine (but Roxio not installed on that one).
I finally decided to uninstall EMC8 completely, and now my system seems to be working smoothly again. No more unwanted background processes, and I can see root directories in data DVD's. One of the reasons consumers don't like to pay for software is that there are too many companies like Roxio out there who ship out poorly engineered (and possibly never QA'ed) software, and then make it their customers problem to figure out what's wrong with it. Later, after possibly fixing some things, they release a new version, and expect the schlumps who bought the previous version to pay more to get it fixed.
To reiterate: EMC8 has wasted my time & my money (not including the $99 I paid for the software itself) over a period of months since I purchased it. After struggling to find a way to get some value out of this package, I finally gave up and uninstalled it. Here are just the most glaring examples of what went wrong when I tried to use this package:
1. Content converted using Roxio sometimes failed completely (for example, MPEG slices from a larger .mpg video). In one case, the DVD produced worked nominally, but the originally high-quality audio track was garbled and degraded.
2. It is necessary to constantly (like every 2 minutes) save your work when using the video editor because it can crash at any time.
3. The user interface to the DVD menu editing software is counter-intuitive and cumbersome to use. Worse, simple editing functions like "drag-select" don't work reliably (maybe half the time). So, for example, if you want to change the font on a phrase or title, you try clicking on the text and dragging, and it won't allow you to even get to the end of the line. You end up having to edit the line in pieces. This is just crummy programming, plain and simple.
4. I tried to create a data DVD with Roxio, and it worked. The only problem: with EMC8 installed on my system, clicking on the drive letter of the DVD resulted in an empty screen (no root directory). Tried the same thing on an adjacent XP system, and it worked fine (but Roxio not installed on that one).
I finally decided to uninstall EMC8 completely, and now my system seems to be working smoothly again. No more unwanted background processes, and I can see root directories in data DVD's. One of the reasons consumers don't like to pay for software is that there are too many companies like Roxio out there who ship out poorly engineered (and possibly never QA'ed) software, and then make it their customers problem to figure out what's wrong with it. Later, after possibly fixing some things, they release a new version, and expect the schlumps who bought the previous version to pay more to get it fixed.
#4
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Posted 07 November 2006 - 09:01 PM
what type of questions would you ask to trouble shoot his problem? as he mentioned above?
#5
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Posted 08 November 2006 - 08:30 AM
Woah, that is a whole lot of info. I think for the sake of making this simple to follow, I would honestly recommend dividing up your post into separate topics and tackle them one at a time. Trying to troubleshoot several issues at the same time more often then not just leads to more frustration. Go ahead and post each issue separately in the various different forums on here. I am really not looking to push you away, but honestly, none of our regular users are going to want to tackle a thread this long.
I do have a couple thoughts though for right now:
1) The background tasks, Media Manager and Drag-to-Disc, can be easily disabled if the users choose to.
2) Have you tried to install ECMC 8 on a different computer and just to see if you still experience the same issue?
3) No software is perfect. We welcome suggestions to our software and I will pass your suggestions to our engineering team for further review.
I do have a couple thoughts though for right now:
1) The background tasks, Media Manager and Drag-to-Disc, can be easily disabled if the users choose to.
2) Have you tried to install ECMC 8 on a different computer and just to see if you still experience the same issue?
3) No software is perfect. We welcome suggestions to our software and I will pass your suggestions to our engineering team for further review.
#6
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Posted 09 November 2006 - 12:44 PM
Thanks for the follow up information. I will be sure to pass the information along to the proper people.
#7
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Posted 14 November 2006 - 08:33 AM
Easy Media Creator 8 is, by far, the worst software "upgrade" I have ever purchased. In fact, it is, for me, the worst software I have ever purchased. EMC7 was great: I have a huge CD collection and like to make compilation disks, getting fairly creative with label art, transitions between songs, etc. EMC 7 let me do everything I wanted to do. I probably made 150 compilation disks from my CD collection.
Then, I fell for the "upgrade and improve" pitch. Sound Editor repeatedly crashes, Drag to Disk is erratic, The entire program often crashes and, most annoying for me, I have yet to be able to calibrate a decent print job, whereas with EMC 7, things always went smoothly. No matter what I do, the printing is always off center. It's not the printer's problem, as it works perfectly with everything else I do and it worked perfectly with EMC 7. I've read dozens of suggestions from these various forums, uninstalled, reinstalled (many times), tried to reinstall EMC 7 (that was a joke; it's impossible to make it work after having EMC 8 infect your computer). I will never buy another Roxio product again.
EMC 7 was great. I used it for years, with fantastic results. EMC 8 has eliminated the "CD compilation" part of my music listening experience. Mark
Then, I fell for the "upgrade and improve" pitch. Sound Editor repeatedly crashes, Drag to Disk is erratic, The entire program often crashes and, most annoying for me, I have yet to be able to calibrate a decent print job, whereas with EMC 7, things always went smoothly. No matter what I do, the printing is always off center. It's not the printer's problem, as it works perfectly with everything else I do and it worked perfectly with EMC 7. I've read dozens of suggestions from these various forums, uninstalled, reinstalled (many times), tried to reinstall EMC 7 (that was a joke; it's impossible to make it work after having EMC 8 infect your computer). I will never buy another Roxio product again.
EMC 7 was great. I used it for years, with fantastic results. EMC 8 has eliminated the "CD compilation" part of my music listening experience. Mark
#8
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Posted 14 November 2006 - 11:15 AM
that is so interesting because i had the opposite experience in that, i used EZCD 6 and had great and perfect success, and upgraded to 7.5 and became confuse to the changes. then i bought creator 8, had initial problems, spoke to support, at first i was hung up on from some guy in India I think because of his accent. when I called back, I spoke to someone in Canada, and I was able to fix the problem about "Menus" not appearing on the DVD. Anyway, I was still having problems with MYDVD, and spoke to someone on support, which was answered right away, was not on hold for 30 minutes like the initial call. He walked me through removing the software, or all software related to Roxio and Sonic installations, except Sonic Foundry which belongs to Sony. Then removed files from Program files, registry, and Common files. Restarted, made sure all of Roxios files are gone...and re-installed Creator 8, applied the updates, and hotfixes, as I go through the software. Wish I recorded every step cause, now my machine works great, No ERRORS, so far...so I'm psyche!
This post has been edited by MonsterFISH: 14 November 2006 - 11:17 AM
#9
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Posted 21 November 2006 - 05:08 AM
kbrock2m, on Nov 14 2006, 08:33 AM, said:
Easy Media Creator 8 is, by far, the worst software "upgrade" I have ever purchased. In fact, it is, for me, the worst software I have ever purchased. EMC7 was great: I have a huge CD collection and like to make compilation disks, getting fairly creative with label art, transitions between songs, etc. EMC 7 let me do everything I wanted to do. I probably made 150 compilation disks from my CD collection.
Then, I fell for the "upgrade and improve" pitch. Sound Editor repeatedly crashes, Drag to Disk is erratic, The entire program often crashes and, most annoying for me, I have yet to be able to calibrate a decent print job, whereas with EMC 7, things always went smoothly. No matter what I do, the printing is always off center. It's not the printer's problem, as it works perfectly with everything else I do and it worked perfectly with EMC 7. I've read dozens of suggestions from these various forums, uninstalled, reinstalled (many times), tried to reinstall EMC 7 (that was a joke; it's impossible to make it work after having EMC 8 infect your computer). I will never buy another Roxio product again.
EMC 7 was great. I used it for years, with fantastic results. EMC 8 has eliminated the "CD compilation" part of my music listening experience. Mark
Then, I fell for the "upgrade and improve" pitch. Sound Editor repeatedly crashes, Drag to Disk is erratic, The entire program often crashes and, most annoying for me, I have yet to be able to calibrate a decent print job, whereas with EMC 7, things always went smoothly. No matter what I do, the printing is always off center. It's not the printer's problem, as it works perfectly with everything else I do and it worked perfectly with EMC 7. I've read dozens of suggestions from these various forums, uninstalled, reinstalled (many times), tried to reinstall EMC 7 (that was a joke; it's impossible to make it work after having EMC 8 infect your computer). I will never buy another Roxio product again.
EMC 7 was great. I used it for years, with fantastic results. EMC 8 has eliminated the "CD compilation" part of my music listening experience. Mark
I couldn't agree more. This software has been a dog since day one. One problem after another, too many to go into here without wrting a book. The help files are useless and on line tech support team is non-responsive. No way will I take a chance with EMC 9 after this disaster. I know a little something about computers and how they can be cantankerous (sp) but when I pay my hard earned $$ for a product I expect it to work or at least get support from the manufacturer to overcome minor issues. I'm buying Nero this weekend on the advice of several people I know who are way more into this than me.
#10
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Posted 06 January 2007 - 09:15 AM
I have finally given up on this piece of crap software and its unbelievably bad support. I bought EMC 7 and loved it, using it for all sorts of things for several years. I then bought EMC 8 and the nightmare began. EMC 8 sucks. The applications hang, sound editor crashed every time I tried to save a file, Drag to Disk didn't work, and other problems too numerous to mention. I then tried to uninstall EMC 8 and reinstall 7, which proved to be impossible. My efforts are detailed elsewhere and are too extensive to reiterate. So, I tried to reinstall EMC 8 to try to salvage whatever functionality I could. No go! Can't be done. I keep getting a message "Please insert disk," even though the #$%$#$% disk is loaded. The idea of paying money to support really rankles. This is the worst experience with any software or software company I have ever had. Roxio is an abomination. I will never, ever, ever even consider buying or otherwise infecting my computer with this garbage. Nero works. I wish I had never even heard of Roxio. What a miserable experience!!!
#11
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Posted 06 January 2007 - 10:46 AM
kbrock2m, on Jan 6 2007, 12:15 PM, said:
I have finally given up on this piece of crap software and its unbelievably bad support. I bought EMC 7 and loved it, using it for all sorts of things for several years. I then bought EMC 8 and the nightmare began. EMC 8 sucks. The applications hang, sound editor crashed every time I tried to save a file, Drag to Disk didn't work, and other problems too numerous to mention. I then tried to uninstall EMC 8 and reinstall 7, which proved to be impossible. My efforts are detailed elsewhere and are too extensive to reiterate. So, I tried to reinstall EMC 8 to try to salvage whatever functionality I could. No go! Can't be done. I keep getting a message "Please insert disk," even though the #$%$#$% disk is loaded. The idea of paying money to support really rankles. This is the worst experience with any software or software company I have ever had. Roxio is an abomination. I will never, ever, ever even consider buying or otherwise infecting my computer with this garbage. Nero works. I wish I had never even heard of Roxio. What a miserable experience!!!Kbrock2m: Your first post was here on 11/14/06, , which was a 'me too, me too' post into someone else's Topic.
Then I find 2 more on 1/2/07, here. – there were 2 replies with suggestions but nothing back from you…
Now you come back to this one for what we hope is your final rant.
Too bad you never took the time to post your specs and go through a little trouble shooting…
Dell 8300 3.0ghz 1.5gb RAM 300gb & 200gb HDs
XP Pro/SP2
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 440 w/AGP8X
XP Pro/SP2
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 440 w/AGP8X
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