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risk_reversal

Creator 6 - Die Hard User Needs Help

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Hi,

Been a while since I posted in this forum but need some help again if possible.

I am in the process of building a new pc as the last one I built was 10 years ago.

I want to multi-boot and will have a legacy partition with XP SP3 32 bit for older programs (has WMP 9 and IE6).

The new mobo does not have any IDE ports only SATA.

I installed Creator 6 and updated the engine (and other progs) to v6.2.0.134 as per my current install (also XP).

My new build has 2 optical drives a DVD-ROM and a DVD-RW as per pics below.

Everything seemingly has gone fine as regards the install. Creator 6 detected the 2 optical drives correctly. I subsequently proceeded to test the various parts of the program that I use.

One being the 'Disc Copier'. I tried to copy a CD but was unable to change the 'burn' speed from the drop down menu as this was the only option available (see screenshot below). This happened when I put a blank CD in the DVD-RW drive.

If I did not put a disc into the DVD-RW drive then the drop down menu allowed certain (3) burn speed options but once I put a blank disc in the drive then the 3 options disappeared and I was only left with one. See screenshot.

Anyone (Brendon..) have any ideas as to how to resolve this. I did have a rumage in the registry but could not see anything obvious.

Many thanks for any help provided

Cheers

 

Roxio_1.jpg

Roxio_2.jpg

Edited by risk_reversal

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Perhaps Bredon will have an idea but I think you have updated yourself out of usability :( Early versions, like 6 used a drive list. Your new drives simply do not comply. If it works otherwise, I would be happy and leave it alone.

I still like Creator 2012 as I can even run it on my Win 10 PC. While I had a lot of fun with V6, I would never go back to using it.

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Hi all,

Sorry I'm late to the action but time zones interfere, and I've been recovering a machine with a dead motherboard for a friend.

Risk_reversal, your question as I understand it revolves around what are called "write strategies".  These are groups of settings or parameters that allow an optical drive to make an optimal 'burn' on the dye or alloy of a disc, having regard to the speed, type, and brand characteristics of the disc.  Modern drives carry a table of their favored write strategies in their firmware.

The disc carries the Manufacturer's ID (MID) which is read by the drive and gives some basic info.  The drive can 'calibrate' itself by doing a test burn and then reading the result, and all this information can be sent to the controlling computer and the burning software by the drive when it is queried. 

ECDC 6 used a combination of the old look-up drive tables (a bunch of pre-sets for each recognized drive or class of drives) and the new Dynamic Drive Detection scheme where the drive tells the software what it can do.  In your first picture above the drive has offered the usual selection of its write speeds before a blank disc is inserted.  In the second picture the disc is inserted, its characteristics have been read, and the remaining available burn speed is shown - there just happens to be only one optimum speed which suits both that drive and this disc and so you're stuck with 16x writes.

If you run Regedit and search your registry for [DYNAMIC DRIVE DETECTION] you'll see a large section written by ECDC 6 listing the detected capabilities and write speeds of your Hitachi-LG drive.  You might find it quite interesting.

Best regards

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Many thanks for your replies

@Jim_Hardin, I did have a look at something that I could upgrade to and Creator 12 was on my list. I read the reviews on Amazon though and a lot of people had issues with it.

I will give it a try as I am in testing mode on this legacy partition on my new build.

The thing that I did use Creator 6 for was building bootable CDs and also for copying tracks to CD and merging the track. Does Creator 12 have these features?

Also can i install Creator 12 together with Creator 6 on the same system or not?

@ Brendon, many thanks for your explanation which expands on information which you provided in the post below (that I read a few hours ago). It got me thinking about the media type that I was using  since you mentioned that media type used could / would play a part.

 

 

As a consequence, I tried a different set of CD-R media (newer ones, same manufacturer TDK) and the drop down box now gives me 4 'burn' choices that I can select from even after I close the CD tray.

I will post images later as I am building this pc at my mum's (she has more space in her house). The lowest burn tho' is still 16X.

Both sets of media that I used before were TDK. The 16X media is quite old.

In  my current system I can select lower values with either of those media but I presume the actual drive may be responsible for this.

Still, that aside I downloaded IMGBurn (that I could never get the hang of before) and as per post linked to above, looked at the values reported under supported write speed .

With one set of CD-R media it only showed 16X as available (same as Creator 6) and with the other 4 options, namely 16X, 32X,40X and 48X, again same as Creator 6.

I have done a couple of 'burns' with Creator 6 and it and seems ok.

I do have a further question, if you have time.

My SATA DVD-RW drive LG HG24NDS0, has various write speeds as per link below

  http://www.lg.com/us/burners-drives/lg-GH24NSC0-internal-dvd-drive

Presumably from what you are saying, if I got some completely different media, say Verbatim (that I use for DVD copying), then possibly both Creator 6 and IMGBurn may offer more and possibly lower burn choices / strategies? Is there any CD-R media that could you could recommend please?

NOTE: When I tried to put a Verbatim DVD +R Creator 'Disc Copier' said Source and Destination are Incompatible. I did not try Verbatim DVD -R media as I forgot it at home.

Lastly, again to do with the available burn choices (referred to as 'burn strategies'), is there any particular SATA DVD-RW unit that you could suggest that could 'unlock' lower burn strategies. I bought this one in haste new from that well known emporium, ebay. I was after a Pioneer but they were 3 times the price and I would have bought one had I know that it would be detected correctly.

Many thanks for all your help and I will post photos when I get home and can edit them on my pc.

Cheers again. 

 

 

Edited by risk_reversal

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I have some screenshots. Hopefully, these will help.

> From IMGBurn

DVD ROM

5aaabf17274f9_DVDROMIMGBurn.jpg.3f3dea2d0e883d510d41d9d6c34cb871.jpg

 

> From IMGBurn

DVD RW

5aaabf6d769e2_DVDRWIMGBurn.jpg.0a17d2a877713ca04441975e895d5bb1.jpg

 

> From Creator 6

Disk Copier with tray open

5aaac0118838c_CreatorTrayopenTDKOLD.jpg.b9aae351fe93a3f5b319bbfb9041289b.jpg

 

> From Creator 6

Disk Copier with tray Closed - Using 'Old' media [Only one option now available]

5aaac06d9bda0_CreatorTrayclosedTDKOLD.jpg.b85feb7d2abc85780df8f53eb227a901.jpg

> From Creator 6

Disk Copier with tray Closed - Using 'New(er)' media [I can select any of the 4 options in the drop down box]

5aaac09fc059e_CreatorTrayclosedTDKNEW.jpg.923266e15ab99cdfcdab30850a69558c.jpg

Any further help much appreciated

Cheers

Edited by risk_reversal

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Hi Again,

The screenshots from ImgBurn aren't relevant to your problem.  They list only supported Read speeds.

The screenshots from Disk Copier reflect the same info as we started this conversation with - a generic range of speeds is offered until the drive is given a blank to read, and then a modified range is offered after the blank has been read.   The new medium is allowing a much wider spread of write speeds, and in fact that's the complete range of speeds your drive is designed to use.

If that's not slow enough for you, you'll need to research the market to find a drive that can handle slower burn speeds.  That could be quite a job, considering that the market has reacted to the Need For Speed for quite a few years now and neither the drive manufacturers nor the few surviving disc factories cater for slow disc burning.

May I ask, WHY do you want to burn slowly?  With today's designs of drive and media you tend to get the best possible result somewhere around the middle of the available speed envelope.  So there's no technical need to burn really slowly, and in fact you'll get a less reliable burn at the bottom end of the scale.

As for CD disc brands, in general I prefer TDK, Verbatim, or JVC-Taiyo Yuden when I can get 'em.  As far as DVD types go, I prefer DVD+ for their versatility, because you can change their 'booktype' to DVDROM if you need.  If a copier is getting choosey about source vs. destination, try copying your source to an ISO image first, then burn that to the destination.

Have I missed any questions?

Regards . . .

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Sorry late reply Brendon, was knee deep in, amongst other things, finding solutions to allowing XP 32-bit to access and use the 'unmanaged ram' over the 3Gb limit since my new build has 8GB of ram.

On 3/16/2018 at 3:57 AM, Brendon said:

The screenshots from Disk Copier reflect the same info as we started this conversation with - a generic range of speeds is offered until the drive is given a blank to read, and then a modified range is offered after the blank has been read.   The new medium is allowing a much wider spread of write speeds, and in fact that's the complete range of speeds your drive is designed to use.

As a test I bought another make of CD-Rs (Philips, that's all they had) and the same 4 modified burn rates where offered.

On 3/16/2018 at 3:57 AM, Brendon said:

and in fact that's the complete range of speeds your drive is designed to use.

Was wondering where you saw that information? As the manufacturer's web page shows different values. 

On 3/16/2018 at 3:57 AM, Brendon said:

May I ask, WHY do you want to burn slowly?  With today's designs of drive and media you tend to get the best possible result somewhere around the middle of the available speed envelope.  So there's no technical need to burn really slowly, and in fact you'll get a less reliable burn at the bottom end of the scale.

Well, as I said previously, this is the first system that I have built in 10-12 years and at that time it was generally accepted that slower burns where better. Guess from what you are saying that things have moved on as per your comment.

On 3/16/2018 at 3:57 AM, Brendon said:

If a copier is getting choosey about source vs. destination, try copying your source to an ISO image first, then burn that to the destination.

Great idea !

I did do a couple of burns with Creator 6 (Disc Copier) today and it worked. Need to do some more testing tho'.

As always, many thanks for your enlightened and authoritative comments.

Cheers

Edited by risk_reversal

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1 hour ago, risk_reversal said:

Was wondering where you saw that information? As the manufacturer's web page shows different values. 

It was from the manufacturer's webpage, actually (here)

The array of speeds they show can be quite bewildering, so you have to make sure you get the right section.

lg.jpg.d34e51c5873df909ca10bd4c024797ce.jpg

The part you want is in the red box.

To interpret, CLV= Constant Linear Velocity (rotation speed changes as you move out from the hub to keep speed under the laser constant)

CAV= Constant Angular Velocity (constant rev rate like your 45 r.p.m. records)

PCAV= Partial Constant Angular Velocity (start off CAV, but change to CLV when they reach max. speed)

ZCLV= Zoned CLV. (use different speeds on different parts [zones] of the disc)

Regards . . .

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Many thanks Brandon. Clearly, I also need to upgrade my glasses too.

You have been most kind with your time and I would like to ask you a final question.

The manufacturer's website also shows burning speeds for DVD -R and DVD +R as per below.

5aad61df7b152_LGSpecsDVDRWcopy.jpg.b8e85a2113325e34c02cd5d8c429ad5a.jpg

I wanted to see what Creator 6 would report as burn speeds available if I inserted a DVD -R and DVD +R disc.

Prior to inserting a disc this is the 'default' that came up for both.

5aad621a17b13_Creator6NODVD.JPG.7f0e6d264d2567c10b0c77a4af4fbecd.JPG

When I inserted a DVD -R disc these burn speeds were offered

5aad6239403bd_Creator6DVD-RIN.JPG.d2ab946ef165c5612310355abce3d793.JPG

and when I inserted a DVD +R disc these burn speeds were offered

5aad62570fc7d_Creator6DVDRIN.JPG.07f901f0392f93f858d15f2ceec83cff.JPG

 

Although the 3 burn speeds reported by Creator 6 are reported on the LG site, the data on the manufacturer's website also shows 2 extra speeds for DVD +R 2.4x & 4x and 2 extra burn speeds for DVD -R 2x & 4 (see first pic) but Creator 6 is not showing me those options.

I guess from your previous explanation that what is happening is as follows:

Although the DVD drive is capable of burning at the 2 lowest burn speeds detailed on the LG website, the drive itself is reading and collecting the information from the disc which in this case is reporting only the 3 higher burn speeds.

Is that correct?

Many thanks

Edited by risk_reversal

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2 hours ago, risk_reversal said:

I guess from your previous explanation that what is happening is as follows:

Although the DVD drive is capable of burning at the 2 lowest burn speeds detailed on the LG website, the drive itself is reading and collecting the information from the disc which in this case is reporting only the 3 higher burn speeds.

The DVD would be optimized for high speed burns by formulating their fastest-reacting dye, and it's hard to design a dye which will burn reliably at a great range of speeds so it's common for the disc manufacturer to leave off the lower burn speeds.  That will be what happened here.

 

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You're a Star. 

I am going to give Creator 12 a twirl in my Win 7 test partition and see what it gives.

Many thanks again for your kind help.

Cheers

 

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I run Creator 2012 under both Windows 7 and Windows 10.   I prefer it to later offerings.

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