11 replies to this topic

[MarkvdPol]

Hi,
I have a project - it is nearly satisfactory. So I burn it to an ISO or folder set, create a disc, find out what the preview missed, tweak the project, then burn again...

My beef is that, particularly for the folder set case, it does *everything* over, including re-rendering slide-shows that have not changed from the first time they were created. Mostly, I mess arround with button placement, audio loops and button text at this phase of the project, so the bulk of the material is unchanging. And I know it has to re-render the menus, as obviously I changed them. But come on, it should be able to figure out that the project settings haven't changed, that the output format is the same, that the source files for the slide shows are unaltered, etc.

And I might be wrong, but it looks like movies created in VideoWave get processed somehow as well, even if they're already output into the final DVD format.

Perhaps this is a feature request, in which case, where do I address it?

Regards, Mark.

[grandpabruce]

MarkvdPol, on Nov 15 2006, 07:04 PM, said:

Hi,
I have a project - it is nearly satisfactory. So I burn it to an ISO or folder set, create a disc, find out what the preview missed, tweak the project, then burn again...

My beef is that, particularly for the folder set case, it does *everything* over, including re-rendering slide-shows that have not changed from the first time they were created. Mostly, I mess arround with button placement, audio loops and button text at this phase of the project, so the bulk of the material is unchanging. And I know it has to re-render the menus, as obviously I changed them. But come on, it should be able to figure out that the project settings haven't changed, that the output format is the same, that the source files for the slide shows are unaltered, etc.

And I might be wrong, but it looks like movies created in VideoWave get processed somehow as well, even if they're already output into the final DVD format.

Perhaps this is a feature request, in which case, where do I address it?

Regards, Mark.

Of course they encode again, if you did any editing.

[MarkvdPol]

But why? If I look at the files it creates in the folder ( if I select that burn option ) most of them are the same after a localized edit. Of course, the one corresponding to the menus or clips I edited change, and I would expect that. But to redo all of it...

After all, a DVD is a collection of seperate files in a file system. You can replace, add, delete individual files without affecting others. So if a given slide show was *not* edited, the previous version is still viable.  And if a given menu was not changed, same thing.

Like I asked before - can the prior files be reused if it can be detirmined that their constituents did not change?

Mark.

[Larry]

MarkvdPol, on Nov 16 2006, 02:29 AM, said:

But why? If I look at the files it creates in the folder ( if I select that burn option ) most of them are the same after a localized edit. Of course, the one corresponding to the menus or clips I edited change, and I would expect that. But to redo all of it...

After all, a DVD is a collection of seperate files in a file system. You can replace, add, delete individual files without affecting others. So if a given slide show was *not* edited, the previous version is still viable.  And if a given menu was not changed, same thing.

Like I asked before - can the prior files be reused if it can be detirmined that their constituents did not change?

Mark.

No they cannot. When you make changes, you are chanigng the project not the output. When you burn (output) the project again, the program knows nothing about what you may have output before, only what you want output now, which is the entire project.

[MarkvdPol]

Larry, on Nov 16 2006, 11:05 AM, said:

No they cannot. When you make changes, you are chanigng the project not the output. When you burn (output) the project again, the program knows nothing about what you may have output before, only what you want output now, which is the entire project.

So here is an opportunity to create an improved experience for the user - I agree that the project has changed, but it could figure out that constituent parts of the project have not. It would just be a couple more entries in the XML capturing the last render and where it put it. Then if that part of the project tree had not altered, the prior render is still viable.

This is purely in a program feature request domain. The current approach is servicable, just not optimal.

Mark.

[ggrussell]

Quote

It would just be a couple more entries in the XML capturing the last render and where it put it.

Unfortunately, that isn't how it works. What you are asking is almost impossible. The XML coding isn't the problem.  Final output is in 1gig VOB files. Now if the individual pieces of a project were prerendered in smaller chunks, I could see where that may be possible. But that isn't how it works. Trying to change something in the middle of a 1gig file would be a nightmare to program. I don't know of ANY software that will do that.

Edited by ggrussell, 17 November 2006 - 03:06 PM.

[MarkvdPol]

ggrussell, on Nov 17 2006, 03:04 PM, said:

Unfortunately, that isn't how it works. What you are asking is almost impossible. The XML coding isn't the problem.  Final output is in 1gig VOB files. Now if the individual pieces of a project were prerendered in smaller chunks, I could see where that may be possible. But that isn't how it works. Trying to change something in the middle of a 1gig file would be a nightmare to program. I don't know of ANY software that will do that.

Hmm, you are right - a single VOB would be hard to reuse part of. However, in the case where you have a smallish production with 3 menus, 6 slideshows and some small video clips, and you're messing with the menu button layout, the 6 slideshows create the same VOBs each time. Yet in the current implementation I can sit there and see it assemble each slide show painstakingly again frame by frame. And after it ironically warns me that the existing directory will be overwritten. Duh - don't erase, reuse!

Perhaps MyDVD v11, or so? Give them some time to do this....

And the reason I care?  - I have to keep doing this as I have an Unlinked Items menu that I can't erase without destroying some other part of the production, and the main menu default button does not go where I tell it to. So I try random changes, dummy buttons, tweak a layout here or there - never any slideshow changes, they have been done for weeks. But the final disc, so far, refuses to have the button I want highlighted when it starts up. But that is another topic...

Mark.

[ggrussell]

MarkvdPol, on Nov 17 2006, 08:06 PM, said:

However, in the case where you have a smallish production with 3 menus, 6 slideshows and some small video clips, and you're messing with the menu button layout, the 6 slideshows create the same VOBs each time.

I understand the frustration, but again.... All 3 menus will be ONE VOB.  All 6 slideshows will then be rendered into ONE VOB up to 1gig. At that point a second VOB will be created.  The menus then jump to a point within the VOB(s).  The 6 slideshows are NOT separate VOB files.  This is not a Roxio thing, but the DVD standard.

Unfortunately, MyDVD doesn't give the user much control over which button is the default button, but seems to always be the first one created for me. With a little planning ahead, that should work.

Edited by ggrussell, 17 November 2006 - 05:34 PM.

[MarkvdPol]

ggrussell, on Nov 17 2006, 05:25 PM, said:

I understand the frustration, but again.... All 3 menus will be ONE VOB.  All 6 slideshows will then be rendered into ONE VOB up to 1gig. At that point a second VOB will be created.  The menus then jump to a point within the VOB(s).  The 6 slideshows are NOT separate VOB files.  This is not a Roxio thing, but the DVD standard.

Unfortunately, MyDVD doesn't give the user much control over which button is the default button, but seems to always be the first one created for me. With a little planning ahead, that should work.

Your assertion does not agree with the file structure produced on the disc I create. I get one VOB for each slideshow, which is treated as it's own movie.
Granted, I could have set it up as chapter stops in a continues slideshow, in which case it would be a big VOB. But I didn't. So I have 11 VOBs varying in size form 27Mb to 423Mb.

It would then be possible to reuse the previously rendered VOBs, if it could be established that the content used to create them has not changed.

As to the default button, there is a setting in the settings panel that appears to let me choose the button I want as the default. But something is off in my file's XML, so this is not working.


Mark.

Edited by MarkvdPol, 04 December 2006 - 11:21 AM.

[ggrussell]

MarkvdPol, on Dec 4 2006, 02:19 PM, said:

Your assertion does not agree with the file structure produced on the disc I create.

Then perhaps there is a difference when using the wizard although logically there shouldn't be.  Personally, I find it much easier to create my 'slideshow' in Videowave plus I can be more creative with transitions, overlays, etc.  All the DVDs that I have created have always had the file structure that I descibed in my last message.

[MarkvdPol]

ggrussell, on Dec 4 2006, 12:06 PM, said:

Then perhaps there is a difference when using the wizard although logically there shouldn't be.  Personally, I find it much easier to create my 'slideshow' in Videowave plus I can be more creative with transitions, overlays, etc.  All the DVDs that I have created have always had the file structure that I descibed in my last message.

I did it all possible ways - wizard, create in VideoWave then into MyDVD, and even hacking the .dmsd XML to extract .dmsm XML for tweaking in VideoWave. All of these had the same output file structure - multiple VOBs for each distinct movie element.

Of course, I have yet to start a blank project and recreate it all again from scratch - I am preparing to do this now and will see if there is a different output structure.

This is concerning - there is apparently different behaviour and no apparant reason. Strange...

Mark.

[Xyzzy]

I guess program should behave as some others do- ie. output format compliant files which haven't been modified are not re-encoded.

X.