13 replies to this topic

[DeejMaster_1]

A simple fact remains...EMC Suite seems like it was designed specifically for one particular computer and anyone that purchases an EMC Suite, is going to have a buck-load of problems. It is almost as if Roxio released a Beta, promoted the program as a fully functional and "user-friendly", and are basically using the gullible consumer as trouble-shooters. Purchased upgrades offer even more headaches.

Read the forums for EMC9 and then read the forum for EMC7...any congruencies?   Why in the heck would I pay an upgrade when I have problems with EMC7?

[grandpabruce]

DeejMaster_1, on Dec 9 2006, 10:24 PM, said:

A simple fact remains...EMC Suite seems like it was designed specifically for one particular computer and anyone that purchases an EMC Suite, is going to have a buck-load of problems. It is almost as if Roxio released a Beta, promoted the program as a fully functional and "user-friendly", and are basically using the gullible consumer as trouble-shooters. Purchased upgrades offer even more headaches.

Read the forums for EMC9 and then read the forum for EMC7...any congruencies?   Why in the heck would I pay an upgrade when I have problems with EMC7?

If you have problems with EMC 7, you shouldn't get EMC 9.  You need to find out why your computer won't run EMC 7, and address that issue.

[DeejMaster_1]

grandpabruce, on Dec 9 2006, 08:38 PM, said:

If you have problems with EMC 7, you shouldn't get EMC 9.  You need to find out why your computer won't run EMC 7, and address that issue.

I came to this forum to see if they were having the same problems with EMC9 as they were with EMC7. Same issues, so they obviously haven't fixed anything.

[myguggi]

DeejMaster_1, on Dec 9 2006, 11:49 PM, said:

I came to this forum to see if they were having the same problems with EMC9 as they were with EMC7. Same issues, so they obviously haven't fixed anything.

Why don't you state your problem instead of jumping into someone elses post and whining?

[DeejMaster_1]

myguggi, on Dec 9 2006, 09:09 PM, said:

Why don't you state your problem instead of jumping into someone elses post and whining?

Good point and your right.  I should have started another topic asking why there are so many problems with EMC, considering how long the Suites have been out. I guess you can consider my "whining" as an appeal to anyone that might have some influence with Sonic, to fix the EMC Suites so that they perform the way the general public expects. People pay good money for the product and when they are not satisfied with it, there is virtually no recourse because of Store policy and of course, the infamous EULA you have to agree to before you install the program. So that leaves the Forum techies to negotiate the numerous complaints that consumers have.

I posted to this forum because I want people who are thinking of buying or upgrading to EMC 9, to be aware that EMC is still riddled with alot of bugs that require some computer savvy in order to get them to work, and even then, they perform half of what you would expect. Yeah, copy DVD compresses video, but why is it such a poor quality? Why can't I compress an 8 GB video file onto a 4.7 GB DVD with virtually NO visual loss of quality? Why can't I burn a DVD project to the Harddrive as if it were a DVD (instead of ISO), so I can use a better compression program like DVD Shrink? These are the kind of things I expected to have been fixed by patches and not through new "versions". But I see in this forum and I am sure that Forum Techs see it as well, there are some consistencies with the complaints: Performance and compatibility. Face it, EMC would have been state-of-the-art 10 years ago, but now lags way behind. You can basically form an analogy with EMC and the Windows Operating system.

If you loaded Windows 95 on a fresh computer, you have to do a lot of tinkering to get the OS to work properly. Load a mess of drivers, a lot of file searching and rebooting. Then Windows 98 came out. A familiar interface with some enhancements and a little less fuss to get it to work. We won't mention ME or 2000. But XP came out, a lot easier to install and dispite a few bugs here and there, works as well as expected. EMC is in between Windows 95 and 98: It has some enhancements but requires a lot of tinkering to get it to work, and even then, with absurd limitations that are not up to industry standards. There should be a system requirement listing on the side of the box that states: This program set may require extensive research and technical knowledge to perform to industry sub-standards.

Grant you, there are not very many programs that load up and perform with virtually no errors. However, when consumers PAY for a program, they expect virtually problem-free-performance. When there are freebie programs out there that provide superior capturing and video compression, you would expect better performance from EMC.

Thanks for listening.

[REDWAGON]

So like Walt suggested, why don't you just state a particular problem you are having and maybe some one of the "Techies" on the forum might be able to help you. There are just to many others that are not that computer savvy that are getting EMC 9 to run great and having the time of their life burning some great CD's.

Frank....

Edited by REDWAGON, 10 December 2006 - 02:10 PM.

[Larry]

I agree with Walt & Frank. The software works great for me and many others that I know, as have the earlier versions. So any "warning" you think you are conveying here, certaintly doesn't apply everyone.So why not post a "particular" issue you are having and see what others have to offer.

[grandpabruce]

DeejMaster_1, on Dec 10 2006, 03:58 PM, said:

[Face it, EMC would have been state-of-the-art 10 years ago, but now lags way behind. You can basically form an analogy with EMC and the Windows Operating system.

Lags behind what????  What DVD burning software do you have, that was out 10 years ago?    

Analogies don't hold water.  Do what Walt suggested.  State your specific problem.

Edited by grandpabruce, 10 December 2006 - 02:47 PM.

[Beerman]

Quote

Yeah, copy DVD compresses video, but why is it such a poor quality? Why can't I compress an 8 GB video file onto a 4.7 GB DVD with virtually NO visual loss of quality? Why can't I burn a DVD project to the Harddrive as if it were a DVD (instead of ISO), so I can use a better compression program like DVD Shrink?

I disagree! I've used EMC9 (and 8 too) with ISO's up to 7.5GB and Disc Copier has successfully, and with much better quality than I expected, fit this to 1 dvd.  Disc Copier 9 can copy a dvd to a DVD Video Folder....is that not good enough?

[DeejMaster_1]

Beerman, on Dec 10 2006, 04:57 PM, said:

I disagree! I've used EMC9 (and 8 too) with ISO's up to 7.5GB and Disc Copier has successfully, and with much better quality than I expected, fit this to 1 dvd.  Disc Copier 9 can copy a dvd to a DVD Video Folder....is that not good enough?

Nope. Here is a perfect example: I have 4 VOB files on the HD that I want to put on a DVD with menues. I use DVD Builder to create the DVD. It makes me do a capture of the 4 VOB's (about 4 GB total) to 2 mpegs (about 2 GB each) so they are about the right size. I add one title, edit it the way I want then add the second title and edit it. POOF! The project size display is in the red and says that I am about 1.5 GB over the limit. Okay, something is not right.  At only 4 GB of video, I should have plenty of room, even with the project settings on "best". However, I change my settings to "low"...Now I have room. I burn the project to a rewriteable and try it out on all my DVD players. It looks like video from a security camera. That isn't going to work.

So, I recreate the project at "best" settings and then this time I try to burn it as an ISO to a folder. Odd, my project size display says that my project is 5.7 GB, but when the image is created, it is only 3.99 GB in size. I go ahead and burn the ISO image to another rewriteable. When I test this one out on the DVD players, the menues are gone, the video is funky (not as bad as the first run) and the audio was out of sync by about 1 second, just enough to seem like a dubbed foreign film.

For grins and giggles, I opened up the caputured MPEGS with Nero to check out the video quality. It was okay, but the audio was out of sync. How in the world does that happen? I burned the VOBs to a DVD and there was nothing wrong with them, but by the time EMC decoded them into MPEGS, the files are useless.

Now, on the other hand, when I converted my Hi-8 tapes to DVD, it did just fine. Not only were the projects only about 3.5 GB, I had no difficulty in creating a DVD with it. Go figure. I wonder what the difference is, with the exception that later is converting analog to digital and the it's size considerably under 4 GB.

[POBSTAR]

DeejMaster_1, on Dec 10 2006, 08:14 PM, said:

I agree with DeeJ

This software is issue to public in a confusing way. No update just Upgrade. The only update available is intended for CD-ROM purchases acquired from a retail vendor only from Version 7 to 8 without any mention of what the update is for.  It was not the case when EasyMedia Creator owned the product and same with Roxio before they sold the product to Sonic people.

I bought online the downloadable version 9. That's mean that no update will be issue for the software that I own legally.

I had the same problem mention above by 'DeejMaster_1'  plus some others kind of problematic and erratic behaviour from version 9

I read all the post that is here in this website and for many problems issue that I had and you guys (Advance Users) help me to by pass the prob's and many thanks for that.

But for the problem that Dj post here there is no Answer.

I'm having the same problems and believe me I work multiple hours to find my way to make a decent DVD out for production.

Sonic put all there effort to new upgrade version with some amelioration from the previous but not enough to justified the price for the new version. That is what DJ is saying and I agree with this, having use Version 8 also and having not be support by any update for the same reason post above.

But one thing DJ forgot is; this forum is not a complaining place to argue with Sonic.

I choose to put on Nero 7 Ultra Edition on an other partition of my Raid 0 HDD so there is not conflict with Roxio and that way I use both software for my needs has it come to the best result.

Roxio and Nero are both Suite software’s and some software’s of each work better than the others period.

Example:  I want to cut a mpeg2 files and keep the part I need. Roxio degrade the final mpeg2 settle to best quality or same quality that the original.

Nero keep the same rendering quality for the final cut mpeg2. Roxio is easier to work with for that and Nero is harder. Finally I have what I want with Nero.

I found my way to avoid out of sync audio the same way that I had manage with version 8. Everyone that is a bit observant will notice that Version 9 is an update from version 8 without any significant improvement. For 90% +

The slider indicator of the DVD capacity is definitively not accurate for a precise rendering when making a DVD. Anyone had found a way to bypass that problem ?

If yes, here is the place to post the tip.

What DJ is mentioning with DVD Shrink concerning compression is that software is working swell without degradation on the rendering even if you shrink a double layer DVD to a single layer one without loosing noticeable quality on the video.

The opposite should be possible within Roxio MyDVD to have the same output rendering in video quality.

When burning the project to folder only, there is two folders. One is for Roxioplasma replacing the Audio folder and the other is for VIDEO_TS as it is normally with all DVD. If I want to view the rendering with others DVD viewer they can't work because of that ROXIOPLASMA folder. The only viewer integrate with Roxio folder is Windows Mediaplayer 10 and 11.  

On this I have to burn the ISO file to a DVD and them I can use the other software that I like better then Windows MediaPlayer.

If I use MyDVD to watch the rendering I won’t notice any video artefact in the composition to inform me if there is something wrong even if I use the “Fit to Disc” feature. What I mean is that amount of compression done to fit the DVD won’t be noticeable on MyDVD Preview.

If I read correctly DJ and I assume this is right, I would ask to "Advance Users" here this Question:

How do I figure correctly the amount of MB to get a quality DVD that will give no Video artifact  with the MyDVD way's of compression.

I have actually 4,44 GB (4 771 342 879 bytes) mpg2 best quality video to put on a DVD and MyDVD is Shrinking this to a final work were there is video artefacts on the rendering DVD. This is not serious in my concern.

This is the point out of DJ and mine. If you guys had found the right way to get a DVD without any video artefact with that amount of data please give us the trick.

I know that I could choose in "Project Setting" for audio "mpeg" 192kbps to decrease the amount of data.
I want a 4:3 NTSC DVD 720X480, and by the way my mpeg2 files are best quality and is the same ratio with AC3 audio from my Sony Handycam DCR-SR100 30GB HDD. (full mpeg2 best Quality in to work with MyDVD) The rendering in TV ,analog or numeric, is perfic when I connect the Handycam to it. Same when I download the files to my PC HDD and view them with mpeg2 viewer.

Any Help will be appreciate
Thanx


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[ggrussell]

Long post and I can't answer all those items. First you need to read more on HOW digital video works and HOW MPEG compression works. It is VERY complex.  There is NO WAY ANY software can accurately predict the amount of space any given unrendered video will take on the disc. The only exception would be if you're editing MPEG files (which it appears you area doing).  HOW MUCH a file can be compressed depends on how much 'motion' or change there is from frame to frame.  MPEG compression is interframe dependant.  If there is little motion, there can be more compresison than those frames with more motion. So how can the software predict the final size without some sort of pre-rendering or at least reading through the entire file(s) a few times to calculate the number of frames that have motion?  I can only assume that most apps are using a math formula to calculate an 'average' size which in some cases could be way off.

Quote

Everyone that is a bit observant will notice that Version 9 is an update from version 8 without any significant improvement. For 90% +

Thank you for you opinion, but you must not be 'observant' enough.  There are lots of changes. Some minor and some major.

Quote

that software is working swell without degradation on the rendering even if you shrink a double layer DVD to a single layer one without loosing noticeable quality on the video.

Disc Copier does a fairly good job compressing large files to fit to single layer disc with pretty darn good results.

The audio_ts folder is NOT USED for a video disc and is not needed. Neither is the Roxioplasma folder. Both can be deleted with no adverse affect before burning.

Simple rule of thumb to get the 'best' quality WITH ANY VIDEO SOFTWARE.
4.7 disc = one hour or less
8.5 = abt 1hr 58min or less
Period...  any more than that and the video must be compressed more.

Personally, I would NEVER edit MPEG files and you couldn't  give me a HDD camcorder that uses MPEG 2 or MPEG 4 as their native compression.  These files must be uncompressed on the fly for editing which slows down the entire process.  Too many things can go wrong like out of sync issues, etc. These problems are not unique to EMC9. Most other programs have the same problems when editing MPEG files.

Edited by ggrussell, 16 December 2006 - 08:30 PM.

[POBSTAR]

ggrussell, on Dec 16 2006, 08:23 PM, said:

Personally, I would NEVER edit MPEG files and you couldn't  give me a HDD camcorder that uses MPEG 2 or MPEG 4 as their native compression.  These files must be uncompressed on the fly for editing which slows down the entire process.  Too many things can go wrong like out of sync issues, etc. These problems are not unique to EMC9. Most other programs have the same problems when editing MPEG files.

Thnx GG for your reply,


I personally use Roxio product since Easy Media Creator Version 4-5-8-9 for Disc Copier and Drag to Disc and I have always the best result with them. They are fare in advance of others in the competition. Easy and fast to use with 100% good result.

If you don't mind GG I would like to discuss here the point of MPEG2 and I would like you to tell me why you disagreed on that type of encoding for making a DVD after reading the following, and if you still maintain your point in this I will appreciate to hear what you suggest for primary encoding to work making a DVD.

Extract from: http://people.csail....deo/MPEG-2.html

“Encoding MPEG-2 for DVD
To make a DVD that is playable in home set-top players, all video content must be encoded to MPEG-2 within certain parameters. This guide covers how to encode MPEG- 2 video that is compliant with the DVD specification. While this guide focuses on using TMPGEnc to do the encoding, the general principles must be applied to any MPEG-2 encoder.”

Extract from: http://www.dvddemyst...dvdfaq.html#1.1

“DVD video is usually encoded from digital studio master tapes to MPEG-2 format. The encoding process uses lossy compression that removes redundant information (such as areas of the picture that don't change) and information that's not readily perceptible by the human eye. The resulting video, especially when it is complex or changing quickly, may sometimes contain visual flaws, depending on the processing quality and amount of compression. At average video data rates of 3.5 to 6 Mbps (million bits/second), compression artifacts may be occasionally noticeable. Higher data rates can result in higher quality, with almost no perceptible difference from the master at rates above 6 Mbps. As MPEG compression technology improves, better quality is being achieved at lower rates.”
By the way EMC 9 use 8 Mbps when using “Fit to disc” and 9Mbps when using Best Quality.

Quote:
“Roxio and Nero are both Suite software’s and some software’s of each work better than the others period.

Example: I want to cut an mpeg2 files and keep the part I need. Roxio degrade the final mpeg2 settle to best quality or same quality that the original.

Nero keeps the same rendering quality for the final cut mpeg2. Roxio is easier to work with for that and Nero is harder. Finally I have what I want with Nero.”

When I use EMC 8 or 9 with those MPEG2 files and use less then the maximum space of the DVD everything is perfect in the DVD Player that I use in the living room.

Extract: http://www.dvddemyst...dvdfaq.html#1.1

“Video from DVD sometimes contains visible artifacts such as color banding, blurriness, blockiness, fuzzy dots, shimmering, missing detail, and even effects such as a face that "floats" behind the rest of the moving picture. It's important to understand that the term "artifact" refers to anything that is not supposed to be in the picture. Artifacts are sometimes caused by poor MPEG encoding, but artifacts are more often caused by a poorly adjusted TV, bad cables, electrical interference, sloppy digital noise reduction, improper picture enhancement, poor film-to-video transfer, film grain, player faults, disc read errors, and so on. Most DVDs exhibit few visible MPEG compression artifacts on a properly configured system.. If you think otherwise, you are misinterpreting what you see.”

Extract: http://www.dvddemyst...dvdfaq.html#1.1

“What are the features of DVD-Video?
• Over 2 hours of high-quality digital video (a double-sided, dual-layer disc can hold about 8 hours of high-quality video, or 30 hours of VHS quality video).
• Support for widescreen movies on standard or widescreen TVs (4:3 and 16:9 aspect ratios).
• Up to 8 tracks of digital audio (for multiple languages, commentaries, etc.), each with as many as 8 channels……”

Extract: http://people.csail....deo/MPEG-2.html

“A bitrate of 9.8 Mb/s (or 9800 kbit/sec, as TMPGEnc expresses it) is the maximum bitrate allowed by a DVD. This includes EVERYTHING; video, audio, subtitles, etc. Audio that is a PCM wav file has a bitrate of about 1.5 Mb/s, which leaves a maximum of about 8 Mb/s left for the video (with ReelDVD, audio can be compressed to Dolby Digital, providing more space for video).

However, there is an additional concern, and that is that some DVD players have trouble playing back DVDs encoded at high bitrates (this is usually exhibited as stuttering and skips in the video). Therefore, if you want to make a DVD that is compatible with as many DVD players as possible, a good rule of thumb is to stick to a maximum video bitrate of 7 Mb/s. If you are just making a DVD for yourself, you can go higher if you know your DVD player can handle it.

In TMPGEnc, an average bitrate of 6000 kbit/sec (6 Mb/s) tends to give very good quality for most video projects. High action and video that is "busy" may require more. With VBR, you can usually set the max bitrate to 7 or 8 Mb/s, and the minimum bitrate to 2 Mb/s or even 0.
Most Hollywood DVDs use VBR and have an average bitrate of only 3.5 Mb/s. However, they use much more powerful MPEG-2 encoders and have trained compressionists (yes, that is a real job) tweak the video scene by scene to get top-notch results. You probably won't get Hollywood quality at 3.5 Mb/s using TMPGEnc, which is why I recommend at least 6 Mb/s, but even 3.5 Mb/s average VBR encode will probably look not bad.”

Maybe I mist something here GG concerning MPEG2 and EMC 9 but I don’t figure out why I should go with some others encoding codec’s files and work with it passing by multiple conversion to finally have an MPEG2 files to work with a DVD software maker.

The MPEG2 files out of The Sony HandyCam that I use don’t have “Artefact” when I first view them with Video viewers such as Widows MediaPlayer10 and now 11. For me I use Nero “ShowTime” and previously to Nero I was using Ati DVD Player. Mather of taste…  Those files, has I mention above, are perfect when connecting directly The Sony HandyCam to a digital or analogue TV with RCA connectors or USB2. Not mentioning when I connect the HDD of that Cam using USB2 connector and visualise the MPEG2 files on my PC. HDD to HDD with the recommended MPEG2 files from the experts.

It seems that you work with Roxio for a long time now and I assume that you understand it very well to say that MPEG2 is not compliance at start with the MyDVD software. Your experience is using what codec to get the most out of MyDVD ?

Just mentioning again that you folks “Advance Users” are doing a great job here giving us your time and expertise with that Suite Software’s. Personally I appreciate it very much.

I know it may not be the post here to ask help on another subject so I will make another post after this one on How to Protect a DVD from Copying.

[ggrussell]

POBSTAR, on Dec 17 2006, 03:07 PM, said:

If you don't mind GG I would like to discuss here the point of MPEG2 and I would like you to tell me why you disagreed on that type of encoding for making a DVD a...

Read my post again. That is NOT what I stated.  The video DVD standard is MPEG 2 so the video must be converted to MPEG 2 or the disc would not play.

What I stated is that EDITING MPEG 2 files is not recommended -- at least not until the software technology catches up.  Case in point:

Quote

Example: I want to cut an mpeg2 files and keep the part I need. Roxio degrade the final mpeg2 settle to best quality or same quality that the original.  Nero keeps the same rendering quality for the final cut mpeg2.

I can only say that this person didn't have enough working knowledge to get this to work in MyDVD.  The 'trick' is to make sure that the original MPEG 2 bitrate falls within the limits of the software output.

For example: EMC8 could not go lower than 4Mbps. If the original file was under that, then it would be re-rendered.  In EMC9, the lowest is 3Mbps although you can set a custom bitrate output in Videowave that goes to 2Mbps.  MyDVD would be forced to re-render anything lower than 3Mbps.

Using Videowave/MyDVD 9, have been able to edit a DVD recorded on my LiteOn set top recorder. Remove the commercials and burn with MyDVD WITHOUT re-rendering the original file so the output is as good as the original recording.  The files were 720x480@4.650Mbps.