20 replies to this topic

[cyrillekazis]

is there somewhere a precise technical description of a compliant MPEG2 for BD? and /or DVDit pro HD
I mean GOP, profile and all what you can setup in an encoder

I tried to encode with the sony vegas presets for the sony blu-print authoring system
and these files are not accepted by DVDit without rencoding. how come?

[shueardm]

They are!!

Did you read the dialog box properly? A legit Blu Ray Mpeg 2 will still open the error dialog box because it is not DVD compliant, thus it probably says "not DVD comliant" instead of "not DVD and Blu Ray compliant"  

Scott, you really need to change those dialogs.  

Edited by shueardm, 20 December 2006 - 02:20 AM.

[plee]

cyrillekazis, on Dec 20 2006, 12:47 AM, said:

is there somewhere a precise technical description of a compliant MPEG2 for BD? and /or DVDit pro HD
I mean GOP, profile and all what you can setup in an encoder

I tried to encode with the sony vegas presets for the sony blu-print authoring system
and these files are not accepted by DVDit without rencoding. how come?

Just a guess but the Blu-Print default setting is elementary streams, DvdIt (I haven't bought it yet) may want the program streams so try to multiplex the video and audio back together or change the Blu-Print setting.

[SS Scott]

no, DVDit accepts program and elementary streams.  probably just a misread of the dialog boxes which do indeed need to be modified.  

you also want to check to make sure your audio is not longer than your video.  If audio is more than 15 frames longer than video, video will be transcoded to add black to the end (rather than cutting off the audio)

[SGDV]

cyrillekazis, on Dec 20 2006, 12:47 AM, said:

is there somewhere a precise technical description of a compliant MPEG2 for BD? and /or DVDit pro HD
I mean GOP, profile and all what you can setup in an encoder

I tried to encode with the sony vegas presets for the sony blu-print authoring system
and these files are not accepted by DVDit without rencoding. how come?

I don't see this as a difficult question. Is there a rundown sheet to tell us what makes a
compliant file for Blue Ray burning? I have tried several and Mark emailed his profile for procoder.
Upon insertion into the program, I get the standard "non compliant" panel. There really needs to be a setting for DVD project and Blue Ray project so that the program will give the appropriate response.
Wiith just 1 menu and 1 video I begin to create a disc image and it builds the menus but wants to re-encode the video. How about a sticky post of what settings are required in order to not have it transcoding video.
Procoder 2 and TMPGE settings would be helpful.  

Thanks,
Jerry

[SS Scott]

with the procoder generated video, what kind of audio are you using?  is your audio any longer than your video? (if it is more than 15 frames longer it will trigger a transcode)  If you just put the video in the timeline and nothing else and output to Blu-ray, does the video need to transcode?

As to a sticky posting with specifics about how to create legal HD MPEG-2, that's a weird area.  If it was simple, Procoder, Tsunami and the other encoders would already have Blu-ray presets.  We don't have collaborative relationships with our competitors where they share their IP with us or we share ours with them.  So, doing a sticky posting that comes from us that tells our competitors how to set up those presets is kind of counter to business sense...though I understand that assistance could be helpful to DVDit Pro HD owners.

That all said, I am all for an active community discussion on how to get Blu-ray legal HD MPEG-2.  Shueardm has tried out Vegas Blu-ray presets and Procoder and has created legal streams that don't transcode.  He has sent them my way and I have verified that they are Blu-ray legal.  I believe his success with Procoder was via trial and error...but he may have gotten some insight from the white papers on the Blu-ray Disc association web site.

[SGDV]

SS Scott, on Dec 29 2006, 12:33 PM, said:

with the procoder generated video, what kind of audio are you using?  is your audio any longer than your video? (if it is more than 15 frames longer it will trigger a transcode)  If you just put the video in the timeline and nothing else and output to Blu-ray, does the video need to transcode?

As to a sticky posting with specifics about how to create legal HD MPEG-2, that's a weird area.  If it was simple, Procoder, Tsunami and the other encoders would already have Blu-ray presets.  We don't have collaborative relationships with our competitors where they share their IP with us or we share ours with them.  So, doing a sticky posting that comes from us that tells our competitors how to set up those presets is kind of counter to business sense...though I understand that assistance could be helpful to DVDit Pro HD owners.

That all said, I am all for an active community discussion on how to get Blu-ray legal HD MPEG-2.  Shueardm has tried out Vegas Blu-ray presets and Procoder and has created legal streams that don't transcode.  He has sent them my way and I have verified that they are Blu-ray legal.  I believe his success with Procoder was via trial and error...but he may have gotten some insight from the white papers on the Blu-ray Disc association web site.

Scott,
I tried a couple of different things. No audio...still required to encode.  With audio program stream...still required an encode.  Audio was wav and not mpg. Exact frames for video and audio.
So instead of using Procoder 2 I switched to Procoder Express and set it up with closed GOP's and strict GOP bitrate. It worked with the settings. I have no clue why the Procder settings would not provide a compliant stream. Is there a way I can shoot a stream to you for you to check? That way I can be "fairly" sure of an accurate BluRay burn.
Thanks Scott,
Jerry

[shueardm]

SGDV, on Dec 29 2006, 01:48 PM, said:

Scott,
I tried a couple of different things. No audio...still required to encode.  With audio program stream...still required an encode.  Audio was wav and not mpg. Exact frames for video and audio.
So instead of using Procoder 2 I switched to Procoder Express and set it up with closed GOP's and strict GOP bitrate. It worked with the settings. I have no clue why the Procder settings would not provide a compliant stream. Is there a way I can shoot a stream to you for you to check? That way I can be "fairly" sure of an accurate BluRay burn.
Thanks Scott,
Jerry

I really don't know what's going on for you- I have sent that preset to a couple others and it worked for them- it still works for me....

As to how we came about finding the correct values- let's just say thank you to SONY Media Software.

[Harpdude]

I have been able to burn BD-RE (haven't tried BD-R yet as I"m still testing) using Canopus Pro Corder Express (which comes with Edius 4.)  

Settings are:

MPEG 2 HD 1920x1080i

Generic ISO MPEG stream
MPEG-2 Elementary Stream
Width 1920
Height 1080
29.975 Frame Rate NTSC
Upper/Top Field First
16x9
High Quality Encoding
Use Closed GOP (checked)
CBR
1 pass
18300 bitrate (you can play around with this)
Prolile/Level  MP@HL
Intra DC Precision 9
Use Strict GOP bitrate control (checked)
Use Audio if Exist
Audio Stream Type PCM/WAV
Sample rate 48.0
Channels 2 ch
Bits/Sample  16

This worked flawlessly and DVDit Pro HD encoded the show in rapid fashion.

I had all the files (including menu photos) on my I drive (the application is on the C drive) at the root level; i.e.  it was I: New Zealand MPEG, not I: My vides/vaction/New Zealand.  I got no error messages at all, and DVDit Pro finally didn't give me the 4GB file size limit!


And a BIG THANKS to everybody who answered my requests for help!!!

David Ice

[shueardm]

I would expect that this would not be any better than using the encoder provided by Roxio (as it's a SONIC encoder).  Of course it's the plugin benefit and you need to make the target 1920 instead of 1440. There's never been a better reason to get ProCoder 2- go Mastering quality!!! Also, you should use 2 pass encoding, don't you want the best video quality?  

Edited by shueardm, 01 January 2007 - 11:04 PM.

[Mike Stewart]

Two pass encoding does not mean any better (it is better than one pass when using VBR, but when you use constant bit rate, it encodes the same bit rate throughout, even on non fast motion footage, variable bit rate uses higher bit rates when it needs it and lower when it doesn't, the advantage to CBR is it is alot faster when encoding.

Mike

[shueardm]

2 pass is not available on Constant Bit Rate- thus, I should have stated to use Variable bit rate and 2 pass. Using 2 pass VBR is better where you don't want ot waste bits (most normally).It also is a lot better in fade in and fade out of blacks.

[SGDV]

I decided to post some screen shots of Procoder Express and Procoder 2 for BluRay compliant
files. If you are using Procoder 2, watch out for the Profile/Level setting. Procoder 2 defaults to the wrong
setting. Change it to the setting in the link. Mark, this was the issue I had with P2. I didn't go to the advance settings for checking out what was what. Also, I had to uncheck the make DVD compliant setting in your preset.

The Procoder 2 screen shot is of the "Advanced" page. This will setup everything you need to.
Here are the links:

Procoder 2:  http://sixgilldv.com..... settings.jpg

Procoder Express:  http://sixgilldv.com..... settings.jpg

These settings might help those of you that are trying to make a compliant video with Procoder.
If you find any errors, please let me know so that I might correct them.


Jerry

[Harpdude]

shueardm, on Jan 2 2007, 12:02 AM, said:

I would expect that this would not be any better than using the encoder provided by Roxio (as it's a SONIC encoder).  Of course it's the plugin benefit and you need to make the target 1920 instead of 1440. There's never been a better reason to get ProCoder 2- go Mastering quality!!! Also, you should use 2 pass encoding, don't you want the best video quality?  

PRo corder express will not allow elemental streams with 2 pass VBR recording.  I inquired about buying PC2 directly from Canopus, and they told me that essentially I would not notice any difference and to same my money.  Whether this is true or not I don't know...but on the other hand, why would Canopus tell me to "save your money" instead of urging me to spend nearly $400 or whatever?

Dave Ice

[plee]

SGDV, on Jan 2 2007, 08:05 AM, said:

I decided to post some screen shots of Procoder Express and Procoder 2 for BluRay compliant
files. If you are using Procoder 2, watch out for the Profile/Level setting. Procoder 2 defaults to the wrong
setting. Change it to the setting in the link. Mark, this was the issue I had with P2. I didn't go to the advance settings for checking out what was what. Also, I had to uncheck the make DVD compliant setting in your preset.

The Procoder 2 screen shot is of the "Advanced" page. This will setup everything you need to.
Here are the links:

Procoder 2:  http://sixgilldv.com..... settings.jpg

Procoder Express:  http://sixgilldv.com..... settings.jpg

These settings might help those of you that are trying to make a compliant video with Procoder.
If you find any errors, please let me know so that I might correct them.
Jerry

Thanks.  Gonna give it a try...

[shueardm]

Hi Jerry,

It was a preset file, why would the target be changed by default after I emailed it to you?
Strange.

Also, DVD compliant checkbox checked works for me.......

Your images aren't online for some reason.
I personally had thought it better to not post any definitive specs until it has been thoroughly tested and we have the best possible advice.

Harpdude, on Jan 2 2007, 08:46 AM, said:

PRo corder express will not allow elemental streams with 2 pass VBR recording.  I inquired about buying PC2 directly from Canopus, and they told me that essentially I would not notice any difference and to same my money.  Whether this is true or not I don't know...but on the other hand, why would Canopus tell me to "save your money" instead of urging me to spend nearly $400 or whatever?

Dave Ice

Yes it does, 2 pass VBR not CBR.

What drugs was that Canopus guy on? ProCoder 2 is a lot better than PCE, just the mastering quality setting is worth it.

[SGDV]

shueardm, on Jan 2 2007, 12:50 PM, said:

Also, DVD compliant checkbox checked works for me.......

Your images aren't online for some reason

If you read the dvd check box message at the bottom  of P2 it states for use with Pal dvd players.

I just clicked the links on another computer and they worked?  Try to right click and save to target.
I have no idea why the settings were different. I may have accidentally change them without seeing it.


I was able to get the disc to play in an older Samsung, A newer Panasonic, and the best picture of all
was on the new Pioneer Elite. However, it was the slowest of all of them.
I could't get it to play on the Sony's.
I have to say the older Samsung loaded the fastest and ejected the fastest. The picture quality on a Samsung  40" 1080p set was quite good.
I would have to describe the Pioneer Elite, which was being played on an Elite Plasma, as stunning. This was also through component connection.

Marc,
As far as posting the settings:

I figured, lets post it and try to narrow down through the forum what might work best. Roxio is not going to help us on this.
Thats why in the post with the links I said to let me know what might be wrong and needs to be changed.
Or what else might work. The strict GOP bitrate checkbox is a question to me. I check it and it works. I don't know if it is needed.
These settings that I posted are just for NTSC. Mainly because I can try it out. I can't do that for PAL settings.

Jerry

Edited by SGDV, 02 January 2007 - 02:12 PM.

[AquaPix]

Hi Guys,

I have tried a lot of different settings in Procoder2 to get a DVDit BD legal file that is NOT getting transcoded for a PAL HD project without success.
Has anyone had success in creating a PAL HD legal file for DVDit?

Your help is really appreciated as this is driving me nuts.

[shueardm]

AquaPix, on Jan 14 2007, 01:52 PM, said:

Hi Guys,

I have tried a lot of different settings in Procoder2 to get a DVDit BD legal file that is NOT getting transcoded for a PAL HD project without success.
Has anyone had success in creating a PAL HD legal file for DVDit?

Your help is really appreciated as this is driving me nuts.

ProCoder 2 Preset File

[AquaPix]

I have finally found out the right settings in Procoder 2 to create a Blueray compliant .m2v file for PAL HD projects that won't be transcoded in DVDit Pro HD.

You can download the droplet at http://www.aqua-pix.com/downloads.htm