15 replies to this topic

[MacBrian]

I thought I remembered seeing that SoundSoap 2 could be a plug-in for CD Spin Doctor. Is that true?

I like CD Spin Doctor for capturing audio, but I prefer to use SoundSoap to clean up the audio instead of Spin Doctor's filters.

Ideally, after I clean the file with SoundSoap, I want to take the file BACK to CD Spin Doctor to divide it into tracks and then to export. The automatic integration with iTunes and Toast is convenient and very useful.

The problem is that CD Spin Doctor won't let me open a file once it's been "Soaped" and saved. (It's still in .aiff format.) It seems that CD Spin Doctor will only open files that it created. If anything else touches the file, CD Spin Doctor refuses to open it with the confusing "Open Previous Audio File" and/or "Open Recent Audio File" dialogs. I noticed the file's Type and Creator haven't changed, so it must be some kind of metadata violation that's making CD Spin Doctor refuse the file.

I don't see any evidence of CD Spin Doctor supporting a plug-in such as SoundSoap. Yet, my previous version of SoundSoap's VST plugin caused CD Spin Doctor to lose the wave form in the main window, so there **must** have been some interaction between them in the past. That seems to have been solved now with the latest 2.0.2 version of SoundSoap, but now that everyone's co-existing nicely on my computer I see no option to use SoundSoap from within CD Spin Doctor.

So am I dreaming or what? Didn't SoundSoap used to be an optional plug-in for CD Spin Doctor?

Any suggestions for a workflow to use SoundSoap and return to CD Spin Doctor for track creation and exporting? Or am I doomed to have to export all the tracks FIRST, then SoundSoap each and every individual track separately,   and then manually import into iTunes or Toast?

--MacBrian

[hermie54]

No idea about SoundSoap, but if you want to declick albums etc give ClickRepair a try. It really works and i think can't be beat at the moment. You can find it here:

http://wwwmaths.anu..../~briand/sound/

[tsantee]

CD Spin Doctor does not interact with the Sound Soap plug in. I have both applications and will see what I can learn about the problem you're having opening a file in Spin Doctor that has been processed with Sound Soap.

[tsantee]

Well that was fun. Not only did Spin Doctor not open the SoundSoap-filtered AIFF but it also damaged the file so it was unusable. But I've found a workaround. Drag the SoundSoap-filtered AIFF to Toast 7's Audio window and then click the Export button in Toast to save the file as an AIFF. The Toast-exported AIFF will open in Spin Doctor.

I read on the Bias site that SoundSoap has a bug in its standalone application where you must change the name or file type when saving the file. It has me wondering if my workaround described above is needed when using SoundSoap within another application such as Peak.

[MacBrian]

tsantee, on Feb 5 2006, 10:36 AM, said:

Well that was fun. Not only did Spin Doctor not open the SoundSoap-filtered AIFF but it also damaged the file so it was unusable. But I've found a workaround. Drag the SoundSoap-filtered AIFF to Toast 7's Audio window and then click the Export button in Toast to save the file as an AIFF. The Toast-exported AIFF will open in Spin Doctor.

THANK YOU! I'd ran into the corrupted file problem and remembered reading something about it on the Bias site as well, but couldn't remember what. I guess I was hoping it was fixed with the latest update. Seems like kind of a big thing for Bias to leave broken so long, doesn't it?

Quote

I read on the Bias site that SoundSoap has a bug in its standalone application where you must change the name or file type when saving the file. It has me wondering if my workaround described above is needed when using SoundSoap within another application such as Peak.

In the meantime since my original post I have played with Amadeus II a little. SoundSoap works as a plug-in in Amadeus and therefore operates "inside" Amadeus so there's no transport section in the Soap window and there's no "save" or "save as" -- all that's handled by Amadeus' regular "save" command. Amadeus seems to be quite capable, but again, I still prefer the ease-of-use that Spin Doctor offers, particularly with the iTunes and Toast integration!

Thanks for the reply!

--MacBrian

[lschulze]

I wish that I had seen this post earlier. I bought Toast 7 for new features in it and SD. I use SS2 to remove hum and other noises that SD doesnt get at. I got excited when I saw that SD could use VST's. Anyway I have the same problem and NEED to use SS2 so I'm glad to find out about pulling it into Toast so that I can go back and rename the tracks. Thanks guys for the info.

[lschulze]

I just got an email from bias (the sound soap people) and they say that SoundSoap 2 is Mach-O compliant. in addition the Roxio support site says

"CD Spin Doctor 2 does work with VST plug-ins that are Mach-O compliant. CD
Spin Doctor 2 comes with 2 included plug-ins for noise reduction and sound
enhancement. CD Spin Doctor 2 is also a VST host, and you can add your own
Mach-O based VST plug-ins that can be hosted."

roxio support article  ID Number:  ET6000003

Just to complete my whining and complaining SD 1 worked with SS 2 and to make matters worse SD 1 also worked with M-Audio's Solo firewire input. If I want to use SD 3 (easy to parse tracks) I must digitize it with something (Cubase and SS 2) then load it into SD3 (or maybe Toast first). Hows that for a easy to use workflow?

The whole thing makes me angry. SD 1 sort of worked with stuff but not very good. Now a much better SD 3 (cleaner interface, more features etc) doesn't work with anything.

Comeon Roxio get your act together.

Edited by lschulze, 16 February 2006 - 07:28 AM.

[freshburn]

1.  CDSD 2 or 3 have never worked with multiple channel firewire devices.
2.  SoundSoap hosts it own UI and CDSD does not support VST that require it's own UI.  3.  Because of issues with SoundSoap, CDSD 3.0.2 no longer supports any 3rd Party VST plug-ins.

[lschulze]

freshburn, on Feb 16 2006, 01:38 PM, said:

1.  CDSD 2 or 3 have never worked with multiple channel firewire devices.
2.  SoundSoap hosts it own UI and CDSD does not support VST that require it's own UI.  3.  Because of issues with SoundSoap, CDSD 3.0.2 no longer supports any 3rd Party VST plug-ins.

A little curt don't you think?

Why take away something that worked with an earlier version? 1.5 could do it why not continue to support input devices. (CompUSA is carrying the Solo and other M-Audio products). In addition why does SD3 not want to recognize a file that SS2 writes, (note that  Toast does recognize it) and in fact destroys the file when it opens it?

In addition your statement makes it sound as if SS2 did something wrong by creating a UI for it's plug in. Cubase doesn't seem to mind either the Solo or SS2. In fact going back to #1 Garage Band excepts input from the Solo oh and by the way it accepts audio plug-ins.

It just appears that Roxio is putting out something so that they can say they do but not spend any money developing the product.

[tsantee]

lschulze, on Feb 18 2006, 04:03 PM, said:

It just appears that Roxio is putting out something so that they can say they do but not spend any money developing the product.

I have no inside knowledge, but for the record CD SpinDoctor is developed by the folks at Deep Sea Software and not by Roxio. It appears to me there is a bug in the Spin Doctor that's causing the file damage when opening a SoundSoap-saved AIFF file. As you noted, Toast does not have this bug and I found that exporting the AIFF with Toast fixed the issue with Spin Doctor as well. So it seems Roxio has it right and either Bias or Deep Sea Software has more work to do to fix whatever is causing this problem with their AIFF files, in my opinion.

[lschulze]

tsantee, on Feb 18 2006, 05:02 PM, said:

I have no inside knowledge, but for the record CD SpinDoctor is developed by the folks at Deep Sea Software and not by Roxio. It appears to me there is a bug in the Spin Doctor that's causing the file damage when opening a SoundSoap-saved AIFF file. As you noted, Toast does not have this bug and I found that exporting the AIFF with Toast fixed the issue with Spin Doctor as well. So it seems Roxio has it right and either Bias or Deep Sea Software has more work to do to fix whatever is causing this problem with their AIFF files, in my opinion.

I did some more research and found that according to Deep Sea Software all problems are to be directed to Roxio. In addition the knowledge base indicates that VST's are supported. I'm also having problems with connecting an M-Audio Solo to SD. Roxio's support pages indicate that it to is supported (it's not). So I go back to my original premise that Roxio is happy to take the money but does not provide service.

1. Knowledge base indicates everything should work
2. Roxann runs around in circles
3. Self service web support is very very slow
4. online chat is too busy to "chat" and times out after 5 minutes so I cant just wait it out to get an answer.
5. there is no other way to get to Roxio to get help on something that should according to Roxio's documentation, work.

(whew,  sorry to vent) i wish i felt better but i am stuck with a product Toast 7/SD that does not live up to it's hipe or documentation. I'm back to input using SD1.x then SoundSoap2, then SD1.x to label tracks perhaps I can go from SD1.x to SD3 since SD3 does a better job of track definition.

Edited by lschulze, 21 February 2006 - 09:53 AM.

[MacBrian]

lschulze, on Feb 21 2006, 09:51 AM, said:

i wish i felt better but i am stuck with a product Toast 7/SD that does not live up to it's hipe or documentation.

I am disappointed too, but maybe not quite as critical of the Toast package because I've benefited greatly with the recent upgrade from Toast 6 to Toast 7 with regard to transcoding AVI and other video formats to DVDs. I more than got my money's worth from other features in the Toast package. BUT, if I'd have bought it specifically for audio projects, I'd be as disappointed as you are.

I really like the user interface of Spin Doctor and particularly the convenient iTunes integration. I'm just beginning to learn about audio processing and conversions and have a big box of old reel-to-reel tapes I'm converting to CDs and MP3s. (Family history preservation stuff...)

I wanted to "step up" to SoundSoap for cleaning the audio after having "outgrown" the enhancement filters in Spin Doctor and am pleased with the results I've gotten, though shocked and disappointed at the bugs and incompatibilities I've encountered in software that costs this much. Frankly I find the open source "Audacity" to be more capable than this combination of commercial software, and look what Audacity costs! "Amadeus II" is also a very capable software package for, I believe, $30 or so. Amadeus has the added benefit that it and Sound Soap play well together!

Roxio and Deep Sea seem to have taken the attitude that because there have been compatibility problems wtih Sound Soap they're just going to walk away and not resolve the problems. That's a shame, because a working combination of SoundSoap and Spin Doctor would make an ideal workflow for us amateurs. After all, I'm not at all interested in making a career of this and learning the complete science of audio waveforms. I wish for decent results with a simple interface because for me the goal is the end product and not the journey.

--Brian

[lschulze]

The frustrating thing about all this is that the documentation says it ought to work. I cannot find a better product for naming and extracting tracks from a aiff file and the SD3 is even better than previous generations. Sigh I just wish that Roxio would support their product.

On that note I sent the corrupted files to Bias (SS2) and received a response in ..get this.. one day!

the tech said that the problem is that SD3 is evidently removing the header info when it opens it. Since the program quits I'm left with a corrupt file.

So Spin doctor 3 won't accept input from firewire or other programs. not their best effort. I am going to find a site outside of Roxio so that I can air my grips to the world this one is closed to google etc.

I will post here if anything new (good or bad) comes up!

[deepseasoftware]

I am sorry to hear the everybody is having so many problems with CDSD3.

Let me respond to some of your concerns, providing some background and explanations.

Quote

So am I dreaming or what? Didn't SoundSoap used to be an optional plug-in for CD Spin Doctor?

No, SoundSoap was never an optional plugin for CD Spin Doctor

Quote

The problem is that CD Spin Doctor won't let me open a file once it's been "Soaped" and saved. (It's still in .aiff format.) It seems that CD Spin Doctor will only open files that it created. If anything else touches the file, CD Spin Doctor refuses to open it with the confusing "Open Previous Audio File" and/or "Open Recent Audio File" dialogs. I noticed the file's Type and Creator haven't changed, so it must be some kind of metadata violation that's making CD Spin Doctor refuse the file.

This is indeed very unfortunate. The problem lies in SoundSoap. Yes, I know, now you're thinking "the blame game". Not so. CDSD, since version 2, uses Apple libraries for reading sound files. Easier for us to maintain. If the library says it can't read the file, then neither can CDSD. Apple's libraries aren't as lenient as other libraries.

Quote

2. SoundSoap hosts it own UI and CDSD does not support VST that require it's own UI.

We did at some point have limited support for well-behaved VST plugins which hosts their own UI. Unfortunately, SoundSoap is not well-behaved, and neither is a lot of other VST plugins.

Quote

3. Because of issues with SoundSoap, CDSD 3.0.2 no longer supports any 3rd Party VST plug-ins.

Not quite true. It wasn't just SoundSoap. If you feel adventurous you can still add plugins to the application plugins directory, though officially not supported, it should work in most cases, and if it doesn't, just remove the plugin. We just don't look in the sanctioned OS locations for VST pugins anymore. Too many issues with non-standard VST plugins.

Quote

In addition why does SD3 not want to recognize a file that SS2 writes, (note that Toast does recognize it) and in fact destroys the file when it opens it?

See prior comment. Toast uses its own libraries for reading and writing audio files. Are you saying that CSD3 renders the file unusable by any program after failing to open it?

Quote

Roxio and Deep Sea seem to have taken the attitude that because there have been compatibility problems wtih Sound Soap they're just going to walk away and not resolve the problems.

As far as fixing any file related problems, we might be able to mitigate reading (read: repair) damaged supported audio files. That would require samples of audio files (small ones) before and after damage has been done. We're asking for your help to make CDSD even better.

Hosting 3rd party plugin UIs is not a trivial matter. Without going into technical details, in this case, from a programming standpoint, it would be like mixing apples and oranges (no pun intended ;-).

Quote

On that note I sent the corrupted files to Bias (SS2) and received a response in ..get this.. one day!

the tech said that the problem is that SD3 is evidently removing the header info when it opens it. Since the program quits I'm left with a corrupt file.

Would it be possible for you to send us a file which displays this behavior to us at Deep Sea Software? We would need the file in three copies: after recording (no processing), after SS2, and after attempting to open the file in CDSD3. Please upload, using anonymous ftp, to ftp://ftp.deepseasoftware.com/incoming

If you do, please drop a line to support [at]removethisdeepseasoftware[remove this].com

[lschulze]

I have a problem with your portrayal of this problem as laying with SS2. If i create an aiff file and have both ss2 and sd3 read and save the file (each with a seperate copy of the file) the files can then be played using quicktime. if however I take the ss2 file and have sd3 "read it", sd3 instead of creating a waveform returns to it's default and responses with a request to create a new file. It does however change the input file leaving it corrupt. I have checked this using the quicktime. the diff program confirms that the file has been changed.

if i reverse the test and have ss2 open an sd3 file the file remains viable

ps: i tried to use the ft - it didnt work

pps: you said nothing about my problem with firewire input. as i sit and write this i am using sd1 to input firewire from a maudio solo.

ppps: if the program will not handle vst why not au?

[lschulze]

I'm in blogs sphere now, talking to myself!

Sigh,
I thought I was going to get some resolution from this. Deep Sea Support (SD3) contacted me based upon the previous posts. According to him it was a "Sound Soap" problem but one that they could deal with in SD3. He asked if I would like to try it out, I'm still waiting. I feel like the guy that is in charge of the Vista release for Microsoft.

In another vein while dealing with all this the support from SS2 suggested that I look at PEAK LE. Humm, a product that works and has support (I don't know it might be too wierd having a program that actually has support from some one. (I checked with Roxio on my support problem, still open since 2/12/06, high speed support system!!

With all my problems trying to get SD3 to input from the M-Audio Solo and being able to edit the file after it is captured using SS2, maybe I need to look at a "real" product not one that Roxio trys to foist on people trying to sell something (Toast) that really is already in the Mac system (Itunes). I will think about it while I use SD1 to input the audio then SD3 to label and output the cuts.

TT4N

Edited by lschulze, 28 March 2006 - 08:11 AM.