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mindy01

NTLDR is missing after installing EMC 10

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Bought EMC 10 when I got the upgrade email, through the download service. Installed it no problem and began to poke around a bit. No issues. Then came back yesterday and noticed that nothing was working from the "web" style front-page. When I tried to click on the caputure video, nothing happend. Other links did not work as well and some threw up error messages. Decided to reinstall again. After the rebott, my Windows XP wouldn't come up, left with a message of "NTLDR is missing, press any key to restart" at a black screen. Could not get around this, had to google search, get a file, reboot from floppy, etc. Whole workaround. Did a system restore back before EMC 10 and everything was fine. Tried install again. Rebot machine and NTLDR gone again. Finally got back to XP and got rid of EMC 10, went back and reinstalled EMC 9. I am asking for refund of EMC 10.

Edited by Tom at Roxio

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Huh?? :wacko::wacko:

 

LOLLOL! Yes, I am sure. Click on the URL that Daithi posted. ;)

 

That article refers to the problem AFTER you REMOVE a CD/DVD recording program. Not when a program is INSTALLED.

 

Below compliments of the KB article...

 

Symptoms of the problem

In Microsoft Windows XP, after you remove a CD recording program or a DVD recording program, or after you remove a different program

 

You can no longer access the CD drive or the DVD drive, or you receive an error message after you remove a CD recording program or a DVD recording program in Windows XP: "error code 31"

SUMMARY

After you remove a program from your computer, you can no longer access the CD drive or the DVD drive successfully. The CD drive or the DVD drive does not appear. Or, you receive an error message when you try to access the drive. This article contains two methods to resolve this problem. One of the methods requires that you manually modify the Windows registry to remove the UpperFilters registry entry and the LowerFilters registry entry. You must restart the computer after you follow the steps in this article.

 

Yup, and as you can see, it does it when you install a burning program, too. If you don't believe me, have a gander at some posts at AfterDawn and the forums for folks who use Nero.

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LOLLOL! Yes, I am sure. Click on the URL that Daithi posted. ;)

Where do you think I got the verbage of my reply?

 

Yup, and as you can see, it does it when you install a burning program, too. If you don't believe me, have a gander at some posts at AfterDawn and the forums for folks who use Nero.

I visit those forums quite often... Along with others... Thank you.

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Where do you think I got the verbage of my reply?

I visit those forums quite often... Along with others... Thank you.

 

 

I hadn't read your post yet, when I posted. And yes, I know that you visit these forums, and I am glad that you do.

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I didn't say it was a bad boot.ini. I just noticed the OS is on part(1). I have a dual boot machine and the default OS is on part(0) and the second OS is on part(1).

 

My Dual Boot:

 

[boot loader]

timeout=5

default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(0)\WINDOWS

[operating systems]

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(0)\WINDOWS="(1) Microsoft Windows Media Center Edition 2005" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="(2) Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

 

I have a laptop that still has the utility partition and the OS is installed on part(1), not (0).

 

Just something to check that's all.

 

Actually.... I think someone else on a different thread may have it figured out. They suspect that after the install completes and removes and temporary install files, it is also taking files in the root directory that are not in folders with it. That user theorized that the temp install files are being written to the root directory of the drive instead of the system temp directory.

 

Might have something to do with the files attributes.

 

One user has a problem.. Thats one thing. Two.... Maybe. But 3,4,+ all reporting the boot files are missing after install and a couple have reported that it is repeatable.... I think that deserves some real attention from the engineers at Roxio.. Can't have software installs destroying users rigs.

 

Red... Let me ask you a question. You are a Guru and I understand that one of the perks / responsibilities of Guru is beta testing new software...

 

How large is Roxio's beta pool? How long is the beta test before the commercial release?

 

 

 

Ok, so I got cocky in thinking my computer was fixed- as long as the cd I made is in the rom-the computer boots correctly-but when I remove the cd (made to fix the problem) from the rom -the error message returns......so 'light goes on' hello-knock, knock- I realize I need to install this information someplace....I have no clue how this is done-but I am researching today to discover what the next step will be-I'm also returning this software to the retail store where I purchased it..

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The article properly documents how to recover but, is there a fix from Roxio to prevent deletions of the root files?

 

One work around I did is I created a shutdown batch file that checks if the files are missing and copies them back from a saved copy if they are.

 

This topic had been closed but I opened it back up for anyone that wants to comment on whether or not the article helped.

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Boy.....

 

Most of this is over the head of most computer users. No offense to any computer user that may read this thread. A user created a shut down batch file? WTF?

 

99% just want to make a DVD from their captured videos, pictures, camcorders, and I am sure a lot of users use the audio features of the suite. They go to the store or buy the download and can't wait to install the software.

 

Ba-Bam.....

 

OK... So there is a work around (actually a repair sequence after the damage is done). Some have reported that they were unable to revive their drive and needed a replacement.

 

Probably a low level format would have fixed it but now you need to use the debug utility and write a few lines of code. Way over the head of most (but not all) users. (No Offence!)

 

Lets say that I purchase & download V10 today.... Is it fixed so it won't trash my computer? (Tom.. John.. Chime in)

 

Most of the regulars on this forum have stated that they have no intentions to upgrade to Vista until initial bugs are fixed or at least till SP1 is published.

 

What about this suite?? V10 was published prior to any fixes/patches to V9 and then the V9 patch basically removed some apps to make it more compatible with Vista.. No bugs were fixed.

 

Has anyone read the reviews of this suite (besides PC Magazine)?? Checked Sonics stock value (SNIC - Stock Symbol)

 

The sky is falling!

Edited by barryware

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I appreciate Roxio re-opening the thread.

 

While hosting the repair article is nice, can you tell us if you are still working on the source of the issue (hinted at earlier), and a downloadable "non-threatening" version. You can't do anything about boxed product already shipped, but correcting it in future releases would be a big plus.

 

Thank you. I continue to monitor the site both for that version, as well as other fixes, patches, and single-point uninstallers.

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Here's a little more information on when this problem occurs.

 

I just did a full deinstall of EMC 10 because of the problem with EMC 10 not starting, http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?...=29265&st=0 . I had a directory window open and watched C:\ to see when and what would happen.

 

Nothing happened to corrupt c:\ during the deinstall. Then I started the clean install and lo and behold, at about the 10% point of the install (just estimating the green bar's position), all the files in C:\ disappeared, except for hiberfil.sys. Luckily, I had copied all the files to a backup directory (from where my shutdown.bat would have restored them). I manually put them back.

 

I am running Windows XP, SP2, with 2 GB ram. All patches are applied. I have plenty of free disk space (about 50 Gbytes on C:). It is fully patched.

 

My batch file is pretty simple

===========================

echo off

rem shutdown.bat

rem 10/24/2007

rem check if boot files are present and if not, restore

rem C:\BOOT FILES-SAVE\ is my directory with a copy of the the C:\ files

 

if not exist c:\boot.ini copy "C:\BOOT FILES-SAVE\boot.ini" c:\

if not exist c:\ntldr copy "C:\BOOT FILES-SAVE\ntldr" c:\

if not exist c:\ntdetect.com copy "C:\BOOT FILES-SAVE\ntdetect.com" c:\

 

exit

===========================

 

I used the group policy editor, gpedit.msc, to specify that it should run at shutdown.

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Here's a little more information on when this problem occurs.

 

I just did a full deinstall of EMC 10 because of the problem with EMC 10 not starting, http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?...=29265&st=0 . I had a directory window open and watched C:\ to see when and what would happen.

 

Nothing happened to corrupt c:\ during the deinstall. Then I started the clean install and lo and behold, at about the 10% point of the install (just estimating the green bar's position), all the files in C:\ disappeared, except for hiberfil.sys. Luckily, I had copied all the files to a backup directory (from where my shutdown.bat would have restored them). I manually put them back.

 

I am running Windows XP, SP2, with 2 GB ram. All patches are applied. I have plenty of free disk space (about 50 Gbytes on C:). It is fully patched.

 

My batch file is pretty simple

===========================

echo off

rem shutdown.bat

rem 10/24/2007

rem check if boot files are present and if not, restore

rem C:\BOOT FILES-SAVE\ is my directory with a copy of the the C:\ files

 

if not exist c:\boot.ini copy "C:\BOOT FILES-SAVE\boot.ini" c:\

if not exist c:\ntldr copy "C:\BOOT FILES-SAVE\ntldr" c:\

if not exist c:\ntdetect.com copy "C:\BOOT FILES-SAVE\ntdetect.com" c:\

 

exit

===========================

 

I used the group policy editor, gpedit.msc, to specify that it should run at shutdown.

Nice work... No sarcasm.. Nice job.

 

However... Like I said earlier, way above the head of most users (no offense to any users reading this thread).

 

Maybe Roxio should use your bat file as an update & pay you for it.... Say a buck per download.

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Nice work... No sarcasm.. Nice job.

 

However... Like I said earlier, way above the head of most users (no offense to any users reading this thread).

 

Maybe Roxio should use your bat file as an update & pay you for it.... Say a buck per download.

But they could just copy it from here for free. :lol:

Really, good job on the bat file.

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Lots of ways to work around this problem that has caused headaches for many. Not to be negative, but there are other problems also that require workarounds.

 

The big question is "What caused the problems and when will a fix be out?".

The threads are getting longer and the answers do not seem to be forthcoming.

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While hosting the repair article is nice, can you tell us if you are still working on the source of the issue (hinted at earlier), and a downloadable "non-threatening" version.

Yes, we are still looking into the issue. Thanks for your patience on this one. We are also still watching the forum and reading all your posts so I don't want you guys to think that the lack of a reply every day means we are ignoring this issue.

 

You can't do anything about boxed product already shipped, but correcting it in future releases would be a big plus.

Very good point. Once we have a final solution, we'll have to figure out how to deliver it.

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I used the group policy editor, gpedit.msc, to specify that it should run at shutdown.

 

XP Home edition does not have gpedit. For XP home users who have this problem (fortunately I don't myself), it would be extremely helplful if you could suggest what registry edits are needed to get your bat file to run automatically at shut down (of course, they could run it manually). Or is it only needed once after the install of EMC 10?

Edited by jeanrosenfeld

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Well, now you've gone beyond my brute force fix. I had just googled "Shutdown script" and found the trick to using gpedit. I haven't looked at what registry key is set.

 

Stan

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Out of curiosity, does this issue happen to people on the original installation of roxio or does it only happen on a reinstallation?

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In fact, I can't find any posting regarding this issue in the German Forum, could it be, that the different language files or different added program parts are causing that error?

 

Edit: Could it be, that separating the beta into two (or more) versions causes this problem? :unsure:

 

It also could be only the different Number of installed suites. Maybe the error comes up with more purchased WinOnCD's (the German twin of EMC).

 

gebi

Edited by gebi1

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Reading this thread through again, it is clear that the various "experts" have completely missed the point.

 

1. "NTLDR missing" is a symptom, not a root cause.

 

2. The root cause is that EMC10 Reinstallation deletes all files in the root (C:\) directory. The only "survivor" is pagefile.sys, which is protected by the Operating System.

 

Having experienced this myself, it is 100% repeatable every time EMC10 is reinstalled on my PC - and I've had to do it a lot of times.

Edited by Jacob Marley

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Reading this thread through again, it is clear that the various "experts" have completely missed the point.

 

1. "NTLDR missing" is a symptom, not a root cause.

 

2. The root cause is that EMC10 Reinstallation deletes all files in the root (C:\) directory. The only "survivor" is pagefile.sys, which is protected by the Operating System.

 

Having experienced this myself, it is 100% repeatable every time EMC10 is reinstalled on my PC - and I've had to do it a lot of times.

 

Your blanket statement is ridiculous. I have reinstalled EMC 10 5 or 6 times and never once have I had the "NTLDR is missing" message nor has any file in the root directory been deleted.

Edited by myguggi

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I continue to be amazed at how some people here have their heads in the sand. Just because this file disappearance issue does not happen to everyone, don't assume that it is not happening to some. Roxio has already admitted that they know of the problem and are working on a fix.

 

On my particular system and set of software environments, this problem has been 100% reproducible for the first installation and every re-installation after. This has been recounted by me and others several times on this thread. Why would Walt and others be so adamant that it can't happen when some of us seem to have nothing better to do than spend countless hours repairing our systems and trying to find answers?

 

Walt, go back and read all of these and tell me that all of us are ridiculous. If anything, your stance by not listening is the ridiculous one. Don't be so pompous and listen to what others are saying. I believe that we are all here for help in improving our programs and skills.

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I continue to be amazed at how some people here have their heads in the sand. Just because this file disappearance issue does not happen to everyone, don't assume that it is not happening to some. Roxio has already admitted that they know of the problem and are working on a fix.

 

On my particular system and set of software environments, this problem has been 100% reproducible for the first installation and every re-installation after. This has been recounted by me and others several times on this thread. Why would Walt and others be so adamant that it can't happen when some of us seem to have nothing better to do than spend countless hours repairing our systems and trying to find answers?

 

Walt, go back and read all of these and tell me that all of us are ridiculous. If anything, your stance by not listening is the ridiculous one. Don't be so pompous and listen to what others are saying. I believe that we are all here for help in improving our programs and skills.

 

Perhaps you should read my post again. Nowhere do I state that it does not happen or can't happen!

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We're all aware that it happens - and so is Microsoft

 

MS issued a KB article on the 'missing NTLDR' problem so it would appear that it's not that uncommon an occurence and not limited to EMC 10

 

Roxio are looking into it - all I can say is that it did not appear in the beta or subsequently on any of my machines

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Reading this thread through again, it is clear that the various "experts" have completely missed the point.

 

1. "NTLDR missing" is a symptom, not a root cause.

 

2. The root cause is that EMC10 Reinstallation deletes all files in the root (C:\) directory. The only "survivor" is pagefile.sys, which is protected by the Operating System.

 

Having experienced this myself, it is 100% repeatable every time EMC10 is reinstalled on my PC - and I've had to do it a lot of times.

 

Maybe that's the difference!!!

 

On my system all the named files are system protected and only to be seen, if I change my visibillity settings. But they show up grayed out. So I don't have that problem.

 

 

 

gebi

Edited by gebi1

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We're all aware that it happens - and so is Microsoft

MS issued a KB article on the 'missing NTLDR' problem so it would appear that it's not that uncommon an occurence and not limited to EMC 10

Roxio are looking into it - all I can say is that it did not appear in the beta or subsequently on any of my machines

WIth all due respect. The KB article you refer to regarding the MFT issue has already been ruled out in previous posts. Please stop bringing it up again.

See my previous post #104:

http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?...7932&st=103

 

In summary of that post

The symtoms everyone is complaining about are that the files are COMPLETELY MISSING after installing EMC10 and rebooting.

IF the MFT was the problem as sited in that kb article the files would NOT BE MISSING

You would still be able to see them if you booted to dos or from a windows cd and changed their hidden, system, read-only attributes to make them visible.

What happens when the MFT problem sited in that article bites you is that the ntldr file has been moved by the OS to a section of the MFT that is beyond the 1st section (IE into the second or beyond mft fragments)

They are STILL there and can still be seen with a dir command from a running OS. Only the boot loader cannot "see" them because (prior to SP2) the boot loader was only able to look for the ntldr file in the 1st mft segment and not to one of it's fragments.

Just to clarify, I don't know if emc 10 is the problem or MS or the man-in-the-moon but the MFT is not the problem. It was a nice eduguess but like my original eduguess way back in the thread...

it is the wrong answer.

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