8 replies to this topic

[Funkman]

Hi, I'm a newbie to video processing, and a veteran with PCs and their architectures.  I will attempt to not omit anything here that will aid you veterans in assisting me, please forgive if I do.  I've studied these boards (and also Club CDFreaks), run various searches, and if the solutions are already posted I've somehow not hit on the right search terms, so again, please forgive.

Problem: trying to burn a DVD of a Tivo'd show, but am not achieving quality that resembles that of the original.

Hardware: built this machine about 3 years ago, highest quality components at the time:
Chassis: Antec, w/450 watt power supply
Motherboard: Asus P4P800
RAM: 1 gigabyte
CPU: Intel 2.4 GHz
Video: ATI Radeon 9800 Pro
Burner: MadDog MD-16X3DVD9-8X
HD: (2) Western Digital WD800BB-53DKA0 IDE drives (75 GB) w/UDMA Mode 5 on the controllers
OS: Windows XP Home w/SP2
DirectX 9.0c
All drivers, including BIOS, video, and chipset, are current.
Both hard drives defragged.

Testing various burns on my Sony DVD player which is connected to my TV and sound system.  (All burns look great played on PC, not so on TV)

I'm using Tivo Desktop 2.3, and have made multiple attempts, first using MyDVD, then just using Videowave and then burning straight to MYDVD Express.  I've trimmed down the video to a 5-minute clip just to save time with all the repeated tests.  Don't know if it matters, but this is an old 1960's black-and-white feature that has a bit of color thrown in towards the end just for horror movie shock value.

I may not be using the correct terminology, but I'll attempt to describe what I'm seeing.  In a scene that shows a man (wearing coat 'n tie) speaking, just a straight-on head and shoulders view on a light background, instead of the clean line of his shoulders that I see in the original Tivo, the line of his shoulders is discernible as a series of horizontal and vertical lines (is this "pixellation?) like a set of stairs descending from neck to arm.  I feel like this is a resolution issue that occurs during the final rendering, but again, may not be using the right terminology.  Some might say I'm being too anal, and I know that you always lose something during the processing, but it seems like this issue shouldn't just jump right out at me when I view the disc.

I've disabled all unnecessary drivers/startup programs, stripped down my configuration to minimum.  Uninstalled Drag-to-Disc just because I read various negative postings here so I wanted to eliminate any unaccounted-for variables.

I read a few posts that talked about hardware versus software rendering.  I set the video board so that all settings were for "optimum performance" versus quality.  Using hardware rendering, the image quality is close to being as good as the original, but there is a disconcerting flicker to the upper border of the widescreen image - just the very upper edge of the image flickers.  Tried using software rendering - the upper edge flicker is not there, but "stairs" effect with pixellation is worse.

I'm burning using Memorex DVD+RW discs for testing after I wasted a DVD+R DL and a couple of DVD+R discs before getting it through my head to use the re-writables until I've licked the problem.

I've tried this with MyDVD settings at "High Quality".  The original TIVO recording were at "High Quality" - note - this is not the best quality setting for TIVO - it's second best, the best being "Best Quality".  But when I compare my test burn to the original TIVO recording both my wife and I see a distinct difference.  I've been through the on-line help, and the PDF User Guide, but if my answer's there I somehow missed it.

I've acquired my skills with systems having learned them the hard way over the years doing all manner of systems support, and will just about do anything rather than ask for help - not because I'm proud, but because those types of lessons stick with you when you ferret out the answers yourself as opposed to having your hand held.  But in this case, I can't seem to find any options that could possibly optimize the process to yield better results.

Yet, I wouldn't be surprised if I'm just missing something that you guys may feel is elementary, just because I've never really dived into the world of video before.

Can anyone help?

Thanks TREMENDOUSLY in advance!

Can anybody point me in the right direction?

Edited by Funkman, 23 October 2007 - 04:27 PM.

[Funkman]

Hmm..2 days, no responses.  Did I put this in the wrong sub-forum?  Or is it just a really off-the-wall issue..?

[james_hardin]

TiVo is a proprietary non-standard system that the majority of video users avoid!

I know nothing about and that is enough for me…

Maybe someone learned of TiVo can help.

I can tell you this, you cannot output video better than the source file. If the TiVo source was less than your output, it is not going to look good and nothing can change that.

[Funkman]

Thanks for the reply James.  I fully agree with you on everything, and if there was another way to grab many of my favorite shows when I spend so much time on the road for my job, I would.  That is - if there was another way without causing technological complications for my wife, who is always at home.  If I hadn't paid for that lifetime Tivo subscription I'd probably opt for some off-the-shelf DVR, but that's the hand I'm dealt.

I'm not expecting equal (and certainly not better) quality.

I'm thinking this comes down to the fact that the clip is being re-encoded.  Since Roxio can decode the TIVO proprietary codec, it seems logical that there should be a way to get it to simply put in on the DVD without recoding - I guess this is what I'm looking for.  But this is also where my (very limited) knowledge hits the wall.

[myguggi]

Thanks for the reply James.  I fully agree with you on everything, and if there was another way to grab many of my favorite shows when I spend so much time on the road for my job, I would.  That is - if there was another way without causing technological complications for my wife, who is always at home.  If I hadn't paid for that lifetime Tivo subscription I'd probably opt for some off-the-shelf DVR, but that's the hand I'm dealt.

I'm not expecting equal (and certainly not better) quality.

I'm thinking this comes down to the fact that the clip is being re-encoded.  Since Roxio can decode the TIVO proprietary codec, it seems logical that there should be a way to get it to simply put in on the DVD without recoding - I guess this is what I'm looking for.  But this is also where my (very limited) knowledge hits the wall.

The TiVo file has to be recoded to make it DVD compliant, otherwise you can't create a DVD

[james_hardin]

The TiVo file has to be recoded to make it DVD compliant, otherwise you can't create a DVD

Walt: What are the steps to do that and retain some semblance of quality?

For his situation, TiVo seems the only way to go and he is converting but is having quality issues…

[myguggi]

Walt: What are the steps to do that and retain some semblance of quality?

For his situation, TiVo seems the only way to go and he is converting but is having quality issues…

Perhaps there is some help in this link and forum

[Funkman]

Perhaps there is some help in this link and forum

Thanks very much gents - I'll try some of this out and report back on results.

[Funkman]

Well, I imagine this post may be deleted by the moderators because I found the answer to my problem, and it is a different piece of software - so read it while you can.

Following Myguggi's advice, I surfed to the link he posted.  Did some reading of a few posts there.  Here's what I ended up doing.

1) Install DirectShowDump (freeware), which strips out the proprietary TIVO stuff, leaving you with a same-size "standard" MPEG-2 (DVD) file.  There's even an advanced version that stays resident in the background on your computer, so that as soon as a new TIVO formatted file hits your hard disk, it automatically converts it to standard MPEG-2, no intervention necessary.  And it does leave the original file untouched.

2) Bought TMPGEnc DVD Author 3.  Edited (lightning speed compared to VideoWave) and burned DVD.

First try - compared to playback direct from the TIVO unit - my human eyes can detect absolutely no loss in quality - looks PERFECT.  No having to monkey around with software vs hardware rendering.  I don't know how it does it's rendering, but it's every bit as fast, or faster, than Roxio EMC9.  The whole process from start (with .TIVO file format) to finish (pulling out finished DVD) was so quick, I just couldn't believe I was going to get good results.  No fine-tuning necessary, no having to figure out different options (being a newbie).  I'm seriously impressed.

Observation: DVD Author 3 doesn't give you quite the creative power as far as slick-looking menus and such, although it does allow you to create basic menus.  And it certainly does not offer the full suite of tools for other purposes that EMC9 does.  But for my money, to get DVD from a TIVO show that seems to have no difference in quality, it's a dream.  I believe I will probably not ever use another program to edit and burn DVD video.

So after I beat my head against EMC9 for a week, I spent $75 on DVD Author 3 and couldn't possibly be happier.  Thanks for pointing me in the right direction guys.  Hope this helps others as much as it helps me.