30 replies to this topic

[lucretia]

Hi!

I had a computer 5- 6 years old that died a few months ago. I had a very old release of Roxio and had time to take a final backup but the computer died before I had time to "close" the filesystem to make that DVD accessibel from any kind of computer.

I bought a new computer with new release of Roxio - version 9. But I cannot open that DVD. Any help?

Teh backup was made with help of drag&drop at windows filemanager. The CD itselfs seems to be Ok - I can open it at a friends PC (he says he never had Roxio on that PC so I wodner how)

regards,

/Lucretia

Edited by lucretia, 25 December 2007 - 09:00 AM.

[Beerman]

Hi!

I had a computer 5- 6 years old that died a few months ago. I had a very old release of Roxio and had time to take a final backup but the computer died before I had time to "close" the filesystem to make that DVD accessibel from any kind of computer.

I bought a new computer with new release of Roxio - version 9. But I cannot open that DVD. Any help?

Teh backup was made with help of drag&drop at windows filemanager. The CD itselfs seems to be Ok - I can open it at a friends PC (he says he never had Roxio on that PC so I wodner how)

regards,

/Lucretia

What version of Roxio did you have?  You can try CDRoller which should be able to get the info off your disc but using the new version of Roxio is likely hit or miss (I'm thinking miss).  I would suggest in the future to use Creator Classic for archiving your data.  It's safer and I think, easy to use.

[james_hardin]

XP Should be able to read anything written with the packet writer you used.

You probably have Vista? Since Vista is BETTER, so it can't read them.

CD Roller that Paul suggest, may be able to read them but if your friend can copy and burn them to a standard CD project (XP Burning) it wouldn't cost you but a fraction of buying a special program.

[lucretia]

XP Should be able to read anything written with the packet writer you used.

You probably have Vista? Since Vista is BETTER, so it can't read them.

CD Roller that Paul suggest, may be able to read them but if your friend can copy and burn them to a standard CD project (XP Burning) it wouldn't cost you but a fraction of buying a special program.

I do not remember what version it was - and as I said - the computer is dead. But I Guess it could have been v 3 or 4 - is that possible considering the age of the computer?

I'm running Windows XP (now and then). At the old computer I used drag and drop with the filemanager. Whenever I ejected the CD I got a question from Roxio if I wanted to close the filesystem in a way that all computers could handle. And  this could not be made at the last backup. (I actually hade a grace period of 6 hours from the first moment the hard drive told me that it was dying. I almost backed up everything a last time. Several checksumerrors and rebootings. But what a nice way to die....right under my fingers....giving me time....)

Now I have a brand new PC with XP. Version 9 of Roxio is installed. When I use the filemanager the DVD is treated like a brand new unwritten DVD. Totally blank.

When I move the DVD to my friends PC - I find the whole filearchive from the Windows filemanager. But I do not dare to do anything at my friends computer. Afraid of loosing my last backup. Have thought about adding one more file and see If I get that question about if I want to close the filsystem from Roxio (perhaps he has installed it some time anyhow). But there are a several important files I want to save.  Do not know how....

There is one more thing I have thought about. Somewhere in old ages I was told that if you have windows with a special servicepack installed you could use the filemanager. My friend NEVER updates his operating system. It is probably 2 or 3 years old now. Perhaps thats why he can read the files. He has the service pack and havn't updated/upgraded. I have a brand new PC ....far above that servicepack so to speak.

/Luc

[lucretia]

Beerman - thanks for the link to CDroller!
I have better try it if everything else fails.

The reason why I never started up using any "better" backup program is that I'm in the hands of a provider. I've relied on ordinary "file backups" since WHEN the filssystem is closed is accessible from all pcs.

Now I have a version 9 so I had better to use the backupsystsems provided. Especially when I have such problems to take care of my "manual" incremental backup form my old computer. I managed several years to backup all all files to a separate firewire disc. But now that one is full! Incremental backups must be started up.

/Luc

[james_hardin]

You were not running V3 or V4 on any XP PC.

You are now a first hand experienced user at the follies of packet writing.

You have also been given the only answers you are going to get. Sorry but the Tooth Fairy took the Easy Button…

[lucretia]

You were not running V3 or V4 on any XP PC.

You are now a first hand experienced user at the follies of packet writing.

You have also been given the only answers you are going to get. Sorry but the Tooth Fairy took the Easy Button…

I might be wrong about the version....it was a guess thats all.

I'm sorry if I do not understand you completely...since English isn't my first language.

What do you mean by follies?
This problem I have exactely illustrated WHY I do not want to be in the hands of a provider that might change their code so I cannot read back my backups.

I believed that IF i buy a new Roxio I would be able to read the DVD and I cannot!!!!

Now I might be in the hands of Microsoft - and that is not good that either. BUT I havn't put all my eggs in one basket. I have most of my data on that firewiredisk (managed with help of filecopy). If I had made all my backups with an old backup program - I would perhaps not be able to access anything at all!

/Luc

Edited by lucretia, 25 December 2007 - 01:50 PM.

[james_hardin]

I might be wrong about the version....it was a guess thats all.

I'm sorry if I do not understand you completely...since English isn't my first language.

What do you mean by follies?
This problem I have exactely illustrated WHY I do not want to be in the hands of a provider that might change their code so I cannot read back my backups.

I believed that IF i buy a new Roxio I would be able to read the DVD and I cannot!!!!

Now I might be in the hands of Microsoft - and that is not good that either. BUT I havn't put all my eggs in one basket. I have most of my data on that firewiredisk (managed with help of filecopy). If I had made all my backups with an old backup program - I would perhaps not be able to access anything at all!

/Luc

Packet Writing is and always has been the least reliable form of burning ever devised. Thus it is pure folly to risk your data by using it.

It makes no difference what version you used as far a Reading is concerned! XP will read all prior versions! V9 D2D was changed to make it compatible with Vista. That would be MS's fault, not Roxio's. Likewise V9 D2D will read all prior versions too...

Your disc failed during a Write. In 99.999% of those cases the disc will be unusable even if it were a floppy. You are lucky to be able to see those files. Your problem is from a HD failure and the fact that you didn't have a current backup!

If you want a rock solid archive you use Creator Classic and create a Data Disc set to Read Only. You burn it onto quality CD-R or DVD R media and store it in a cool dark area. You don't allow disc spanning and you don't use sessions.

It requires a little work on your part but the result is a rock solid never fail backup.

Looking for an easy way puts your data at risk and mostly results in data loses…

Edited by james_hardin, 26 December 2007 - 04:09 AM.

[Wingwiper]

lucretia

The water has already gone over the dam, but may I suggest for all future backups, do do one of two things. Buy an Additional Hard drive and install it, use this hard drive to keep backups of all your important files from drive c, Such as Documants and settings directory. Office data, movies, photos, docs, txt, xls and all other type of user files.

Make a DVD backup of your important files as was mention just prior. I have three hard drives in my system. Drive one has ONLY the O.S. and programs. Drive 2 has music, data, photos and all the created data diectories from the programs, drive 3 is a total back up of drive 2.  I can re-install programs, but data is usually lost forever.  My drives are NOT in a RAID setup but work totally independant from each other.

or you can purchase, fairly cheap a Bookshelf USB drive for back ups.

Magnetic media is more reliable than DVD or CD and will uaully last longer and is FASTER to write to. I back up a 250 gig drive in about one hour.

Edited by Wingwiper, 26 December 2007 - 01:54 PM.

[sknis]

Magnetic media is more reliable than DVD or CD and will uaully last longer and is FASTER to write to. I back up a 250 gig drive in about one hour.

I think that is still open for debate. If the information is important, you can do both.  Just don't use a packet writing program like D2D or InCD or others for long term storage.  Those programs require you to format the disc before you use it.

[Wingwiper]

I think that is still open for debate. If the information is important, you can do both.  Just don't use a packet writing program like D2D or InCD or others for long term storage.  Those programs require you to format the disc before you use it.

Sknis

   You are soooooo right, it is still Open to Debate. Magnetic media has proven to be lasting well over 20 years and even on the cheapest media. I have cassette tapes (Duracell and Mallory) from the early 70s that still play fine.
   DVD and CD rely on Dyes and Dyes are not as stable as magnetic fields. The question and the debate lies within these two parmeters.

   1. which media uses the best dyes (not by popularity but by solid hard core FACT)?


   2. will dyes out last magnetic media under ideal conditions? and what are the IDEAL CONDITIONS


  Unfortunately DVD and CD media has NOT been around that long to compare. I am talking about home written CD/DVD media and not pressed store bought.
  I have had BAD experiences with DVD-rws and would ONLY suggest +R or -R DVD and no RW.

  I think you are also very correct in your Packet Writing software and with todays cheap prices on Hard drives, it proves to be a very cheap insurance that carries more of a Guarantee for longtevity than the Disk Rot media that is still being debated and researched. Problem is, no one can control what the consumer uses for blank media or how they are stored or what is used for markers or labels etc etc.

  I'll keep my faith in magnetic media until the dust settles and the final verdict is out.

  Last night I copied over 200 gig of data to a bookshelf USB external Hard drive in less than 1 hour and 40 minutes. I would dread to do the same on DVD and how many would it take?

Edited by Wingwiper, 27 December 2007 - 07:39 AM.

[gi7omy]

It cuts both ways WW - I used to work for a group of 'drop-in centres' (aimed at teenagers and young unemployed adults)

They did insist on storing floppies in steel drawers - they never lasted and they couldn't work out why

[Wingwiper]

It cuts both ways WW - I used to work for a group of 'drop-in centres' (aimed at teenagers and young unemployed adults)

They did insist on storing floppies in steel drawers - they never lasted and they couldn't work out why

No doubt, gi7omy

You don't want to store Magnetic Media near anything that has a power cord or a transformer, near Magnets or speakers or on top of TVs.  But I will re emphassize.

Hard Drives are CHEAP

they will do Mass amounts of backups very quickly compared to burning DVDs

and ONE 500 Gig Hard drive that you can buy for $130 equals about 100 4.7g DVDs.

You can do a Mirror Image on the Hard drive, rather hard to accomplish on DVD,



When you actually think about it, I can copy about 100 movies onto a 500 Gig hard drive, do it for a $130 with nothing extra to buy other than the drive. Wait for the Tara Byte Drives to come down in price and you can have 200 Movies or unbelievable amounts of data, cheap in one area that takes up a lot less room than 200 DVDs in boxes.
  100 DVDs will cost about $65 unless on sale. Boxes, Labels, INK, and DVD writers.......  

Either way, Magnetic Media is a proven media and there is still alot of debate going on about Disk Rot.

Just my two cents.

Edited by Wingwiper, 27 December 2007 - 08:11 AM.

[gi7omy]

Yep - opening and closing steel drawers turned the thing into a huge magnet - but I was beating my head against a brick wall trying to TELL them that

Most used piece of software back then was NU 95 with the 'rescue' program that had a 30% chance of actually restoring a floppy

Also, leaving them beside a monitor at switch on was another area of disaster when the degaussing coils kicked in (they kept doing that too)

Actually I did also have a lot of problems with hard drive failure - took me some time to work out why (and the boss kept screaming at me wanting to know just why I had to keep replacing them). It turned out that they were playing some very loud rock music on the CDs - and beating time with their fist on the benches - the tower cases were actually bouncing up and down Hard drives don't like heavy vibrations

Edited by gi7omy, 27 December 2007 - 08:23 AM.

[Wingwiper]

Yep - opening and closing steel drawers turned the thing into a huge magnet - but I was beating my head against a brick wall trying to TELL them that

Most used piece of software back then was NU 95 with the 'rescue' program that had a 30% chance of actually restoring a floppy

Also, leaving them beside a monitor at switch on was another area of disaster when the degaussing coils kicked in (they kept doing that too)

Actually I did also have a lot of problems with hard drive failure - took me some time to work out why (and the boss kept screaming at me wanting to know just why I had to keep replacing them). It turned out that they were playing some very loud rock music on the CDs - and beating time with their fist on the benches - the tower cases were actually bouncing up and down Hard drives don't like heavy vibrations

No! you are right about the OLDER ahard drives. Hell we had people bring in their HUGE Drives that they had accidentally kick the desk before the WDPARK command was in place or the other command ( I forget HD something, I think) Todays Hard drives are far better than they use to be.

gi7omy sounds to me you learned that

  1. No one reads manuals

  2. Enviroment? what about enviroment? static electricty. mosture, heat, cold, dust, conductive particles in the air, voltage spikes and surges who cares... right ? LOL

  3. Why can't I have 6 Word Processor Programs in my CPU? I know I only use one, but I have the others because I can...

  4.  The spindles on the old hard drives use to get gummed up and stick and then when the customer wasn't looking, we would pick up the front of the CPU about two or 3 inches and let it drop.  That would give life back to the HD for awhile longer and give you time to sell them another one....... The good ole days.

  Floppies would jam as bad, people would always pull flopp out at angle and after bitching that they couldn't egt their program floppies to read, they would bring it in, we would open the drive and remove the metal shield from inside the drive. We were Honest, we never charged them for this but other Service Centers did.

  People are still the same, 90 plus percent of all System failures is due to Operator Error in one fashion or another.  10 percent is actually hardware related. I don't think that has changed over the years.

People feel that because it is 2007 everything should WORK regardless of how it is abused and abused, never........ LOL nothing has changed other than the date.

[gi7omy]

Oh I've had to remove coins from floppy slots - even had to extract a CD from an old 5 1/4" floppy slot (they thought it was a CD drive on a 386 )

Manuals?? I used to set the BIOS password (the little darlings used to mess it up like you wouldn't believe) and the password was.....
RTFM


The real nightmare was getting calls from centres "I can't download anything" and finding the hard drive was choked - "But you can't remove the history - we want to see what sites they've been to"

[james_hardin]

We used thousands of floppy disks, 5 1/4 and later the 3 1/2's for data storage for many years where I work.

These discs would fail after 1 to 2 years. – Not all of them but quite a few. In fact I have seen a 10 pack of formatted 3 1/2 floppies that most were unusable after sitting around for a few years. Reformatting seemed to 'refresh' them. At least for a time…

No, magnetic is not stable and never has been…

A HD is better protected but try to read one on when the motor fails. Ever try to get a motor replaced?

[Wingwiper]

We used thousands of floppy disks, 5 1/4 and later the 3 1/2's for data storage for many years where I work.

These discs would fail after 1 to 2 years. – Not all of them but quite a few. In fact I have seen a 10 pack of formatted 3 1/2 floppies that most were unusable after sitting around for a few years. Reformatting seemed to 'refresh' them. At least for a time…

No, magnetic is not stable and never has been…

A HD is better protected but try to read one on when the motor fails. Ever try to get a motor replaced?

No doubt some have had different experinces than others.

I will put my money on Magnetic media over DVD-R or +R nedia, any day. I pretty well explained why.
FASTER to back up, larger capacity, and will most definetely last 20 plus years.

I just went and took a 3 1/2  floppy 1.44mb and not the 2mb and I had files backed up on it from 1999 and I just went to my daughters computer and inserted the floppy and you will never guess what happened? I was able to see my Professional File Files from when I had my store. Fired right up and even though I do not still have the old MS-Dos base program to read it, the files were intact.

  I said before I have some real cheap Mallory and Duracell Cassette tapes and they are the graphite and not the Oxide type tapes. I made them when I was overseas and would send them home as letters, they still play fine. They are 35 years old. I have cassette tapes I taped my daughters first words on, 27 years ago and they play fine. I have reel to reel tapes that I recorded in the early 70s and I still listen to them.  The old graphite if not stored properly will turn brittle and break, but my reel to reels were 10 inch Maxells and they were the oxide type, they are not brittle and play SUPER. Oh! and let's talk about my VHS collection, I have VHS tapes from 26 years ago and I watched one about a month ago and it still looked great, still played flawlessly. So must be Jim, you had a poor enviroment or you manhandled the media and then wondered why it didn't work.
  I made my points about why I felt Hard Drives were a better choice for back ups and so I rest my case. As far as replacing Motors. I worked where I dealt with hundreds of Drives and the spindles on the real old drives would gum up, I can only remember a very few motors in my 33 years of dealing with computers that went bad. Then if they do, you can remove the platters and pay for the data to be retrieved.
James, sometimes I think you disagree just to get an argument going...... smile

Edited by Wingwiper, 28 December 2007 - 07:17 AM.

[james_hardin]

Actually almost no one would agree with your assessment regarding the reliability of magnetic media, including the magnetic media industry…

Your 1 floppy disc experiment pales in comparison to my company experience with thousands of floppies!
Your tape experience does not reflect what the rest of the world has experienced either…

Somehow I get the impression you are one of those Halo People that everything is always perfect… I would be willing to bet you’re your '70' Pinto with original tires plugs and points is still running perfect. And none of your phonograph records have a single scratch and you are still using the original needle…

I am not happy with the capacity or the time it takes to backup to optical media, but last tests I looked at indicated that R media should enjoy a 100+ years lifespan.

[Wingwiper]

Actually almost no one would agree with your assessment regarding the reliability of magnetic media, including the magnetic media industry…

Your 1 floppy disc experiment pales in comparison to my company experience with thousands of floppies!
Your tape experience does not reflect what the rest of the world has experienced either…

Somehow I get the impression you are one of those Halo People that everything is always perfect… I would be willing to bet you’re your '70' Pinto with original tires plugs and points is still running perfect. And none of your phonograph records have a single scratch and you are still using the original needle…

I am not happy with the capacity or the time it takes to backup to optical media, but last tests I looked at indicated that R media should enjoy a 100+ years lifespan.

halo Person? ...  I have worked with computers for over 30 years and have dealt with tens of 1000s floppies, from 8" 5 1/4 and 720K and the later 1.44mb and 2.0mb 3 1/2" floppies. I dealt with many 1000s of blank tapes and no! I never owned a Pinto, Hate Fords actually. I was in the Industry from 1974 thru 1995, I was with the company who took over from RCA and perfected the THOR CD.  I am not ignorant of the media and worked with it on a daily basis for many years.
  I have a Turntable and not a phonogragh although I do own a Magnometer. I  have a $500 cartridge and styli and it is a Nude Shabita that tracks at 3/4 of a gram and YES! you are correct, I have a very sizeable LP collection and none of them have scratches. They are kept in vinvl sleeves and lighty dusted before each play.  I am an Audiophile and media has been my business.

You say that DVD and CDs will last 100s of years? I would love to see your documentation on this. Maybe the Hollywood PRESSED DVDs but certainly not the consumer DVD+R or DVD-R.
Mr Hardin you need to do some research on DISK ROT and you might be surprised how quickly the DYES start to deterioate. Yes! TYs are great as are Verbatums and Sonys and maybe under IDEAL conditions you may get a few decades.   The Arcylic will start to dry out and discolor and even crack, the dyes will start to break down and who knows about the foil reflector?  
I don't know why you chooe to play a push and shove game. Magnetic Media has been around for many many decades and Libraries are filled with them as well as anyone who has a Tape Collection whether it be 8 Track, 4 Track, Reel to Reel, VHS, Beta etc etc.  Your DVD media as well as the consumer written CD media has been around for about one Decade.  You and I have already discussed DVD RWs a few months back and I have never had any luck with them, they ROT rather quickly, actaully they start to rot in weeks.

If you want to prove a point, you can leave your name calling out of it and stay with the issue.

Here is what I wrote many months ago and you can still go to the links and get educated.

The first site will give you a good explanation of how DVDs and CDs are made and what to look for from an el cheapo to a decent one that very well may last a hundred years, if stored properly, otherwise you may be only looking at 6 months and then it will start to ROT.
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/and...30-kantor_x.htm

This site talks about what DVD media is good and bad and how to watch out for FAKE media. Very interesting as well.
http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm

This site actually names a few examples of Cds and DVDs and gives some good advice as well.
http://www.popphoto.com/article.asp?sectio...mp;print_page=y

You folks need to do your own research and decide what to use for your own purposes, but as one of these articles wrote, "if it comes out of a computer, it is not permanent."

Good Luck and take the time to check things out before putting a lot of faith in it.

Edited by Wingwiper, 29 December 2007 - 06:53 AM.