[Michael_C]

This is the first time I have burned a write once disk on a new Vista (64 bit machine). I have had problems creating the DVD in MyDVD, but have found if I avoided certain sequences I could sucessfullly create a folder set. I didn't see any problems playing a rewritable Memorex (+RW) disk when testing the DVD - it plays on all of my players, and computers.
I am using TDK DVD+R write once disks - I've used them many times without issue when burned on Windows XP machines running EMC9. The process I use is to output to folder sets, and use the "Copy and Convert" tool to burn the DVD. I burned two TDK DVD's and they seemed ok, but went to check them on a different Player I saw the "Check for Scratches ..." message.

I have the latest graphics, DirectX 10, and DirectX 9 and Audio drivers. Running Vista Home Premium (64 bit) OS.

Let me know if I've left out any important details.


Main system:
HP Pavillion d5000t quad core
6 G DDR2 SDRAM
Hitachi 750 G drive - HDS721075KLA330
Graphics cards - NVIDIA GeForce 9500 GS
Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio (Vista)
DVD burner - HL-DT-ST DVD-RAM GH10L
EMC 10.1
Windows Vista Home Premium 64 bit - SP1 build 6001

[firenhancer]

Interesting you are having no issues playing back Memorex DVDRW. In that case, I suggest try using Memorex brand. What other players are you trying to play on?

[grandpabruce]

This is the first time I have burned a write once disk on a new Vista (64 bit machine). I have had problems creating the DVD in MyDVD, but have found if I avoided certain sequences I could sucessfullly create a folder set. I didn't see any problems playing a rewritable Memorex (+RW) disk when testing the DVD - it plays on all of my players, and computers.
I am using TDK DVD+R write once disks - I've used them many times without issue when burned on Windows XP machines running EMC9. The process I use is to output to folder sets, and use the "Copy and Convert" tool to burn the DVD. I burned two TDK DVD's and they seemed ok, but went to check them on a different Player I saw the "Check for Scratches ..." message.

I have the latest graphics, DirectX 10, and DirectX 9 and Audio drivers. Running Vista Home Premium (64 bit) OS.

Let me know if I've left out any important details.


Main system:
HP Pavillion d5000t quad core
6 G DDR2 SDRAM
Hitachi 750 G drive - HDS721075KLA330
Graphics cards - NVIDIA GeForce 9500 GS
Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio (Vista)
DVD burner - HL-DT-ST DVD-RAM GH10L
EMC 10.1
Windows Vista Home Premium 64 bit - SP1 build 6001

Try some Verbatim media, and see if they work.

[Michael_C]

Interesting you are having no issues playing back Memorex DVDRW. In that case, I suggest try using Memorex brand. What other players are you trying to play on?

A panasonic table top, and a Toshiba LCD TV with integral DVD player.

Try some Verbatim media, and see if they work.

I'll give them a try - Any idea in what's the issue with the different brands? Variation in manufacturing process, partical size??
I wonder if there are any media that can work on any/all players, or if anything produced will fail to play properly on some machine.
Is one format (+R, -R) less prone to problems?

[grandpabruce]

A panasonic table top, and a Toshiba LCD TV with integral DVD player.


I'll give them a try - Any idea in what's the issue with the different brands? Variation in manufacturing process, partical size??
I wonder if there are any media that can work on any/all players, or if anything produced will fail to play properly on some machine.
Is one format (+R, -R) less prone to problems?

Lack of any quality management by some manufacturers. You usually don't hear of too many problems with Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden media.

[firenhancer]

A panasonic table top, and a Toshiba LCD TV with integral DVD player.

In that case, I would take grandpabruce's suggestion and try some Verbatim and/or Taiyo Yuden which has highest rate of success.

[Michael_C]

Lack of any quality management by some manufacturers. You usually don't hear of too many problems with Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden media.

Just picked up a pack of verbatim -R's - Anyone have info on whether players have less issue with one format over another another?

[cdanteek]

Have a read around here....

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[Michael_C]

Have a read around here....

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Thanks for the link - I don't know if I interpreted things correctly, and would welcome confirmation/correction.
From what I glean from the info the -R only exists because of the 5 year head start it had, and if all of the dvd players were magically replaced today with new models the -R format would die. I know some of the people that play the DVD's I assemble have players older than 2004, but I don't know if there are many of them.
I understand the concept of the BookType, and bitsetting, but don't see the benefit of a recorder setting the BookType to DVD-ROM when the format will actually be a DVD +R.
The other thing I don't know/understand is how a Booktype for DVD+R (which is 1010) is set by many recorders to a Booktype DVD-ROM (which is 0000). Is this region of the disc rewritable, or are the bits in the booktype region manufactured with a 1010 pattern, and have not been "burned" to be in this state? I looked at the blank DVD +R discs, and the Booktypes are set to 1010, and after recording they are really set to 0000.

Lack of any quality management by some manufacturers. You usually don't hear of too many problems with Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden media.

I burned one of the Verbatim -R, and it played fine. Thanks for the suggestion.
I don't quite know why the TDK + R's didn't work - unless they were marginal, combined with a new burner that exposed the susceptability. I've burned plenty of them without any issues before, but it was with a different burner/driver.
Thanks again.

[Brendon]

Thanks for the link - I don't know if I interpreted things correctly, and would welcome confirmation/correction.
From what I glean from the info the -R only exists because of the 5 year head start it had, and if all of the dvd players were magically replaced today with new models the -R format would die. I know some of the people that play the DVD's I assemble have players older than 2004, but I don't know if there are many of them.

Well, the -R format is considered to be not as advanced or versatile as the +R format. See here. However a number of companies have a foot in both camps [betting a buck each way] do the DVD dash format isn't very likely to disappear in the very near future.

I understand the concept of the BookType, and bitsetting, but don't see the benefit of a recorder setting the BookType to DVD-ROM when the format will actually be a DVD +R.

Players will recognize discs that their firmware tells them to recognize. Some of the older ones are only set to recognize DVD-ROM, so setting the booktype to that keeps the older player happy and it doesn't realize it's been fooled.

The other thing I don't know/understand is how a Booktype for DVD+R (which is 1010) is set by many recorders to a Booktype DVD-ROM (which is 0000). Is this region of the disc rewritable, or are the bits in the booktype region manufactured with a 1010 pattern, and have not been "burned" to be in this state? I looked at the blank DVD +R discs, and the Booktypes are set to 1010, and after recording they are really set to 0000.

The field is rewriteable with +RWs; writeable with +Rs; and stamped into the disc during manufacture for dash discs. That's why DVD dash is so inflexible.

Regards,
Brendon

[cdanteek]

I understand the concept of the BookType, and bitsetting, but don't see the benefit of a recorder setting the BookType to DVD-ROM when the format will actually be a DVD +R.

Some of the older ones are only set to recognize DVD-ROM, so setting the booktype to that keeps the older player happy and it doesn't realize it's been fooled.

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[Michael_C]

Players will recognize discs that their firmware tells them to recognize. Some of the older ones are only set to recognize DVD-ROM, so setting the booktype to that keeps the older player happy and it doesn't realize it's been fooled.

I understand, or at least think I understand, players look at the Booktype, and won't proceed trying to read the disc if the Booktype is not supported by the particular drive. And, you can fool the player by indicating it's a disc it can read. Where I have difficulty following is - a DVD +R stores information by varying the phase - just because the player was "fooled" into believing it was a disc it can read (DVD-Rom) doesn't mean it can handle a phase modulated signal. I'm sure there is something I'm not considering since the approach seems to work - but things don't add up to me, with the pieces of info I have gleaned. I was asking the question to get that additional info

The field is rewriteable with +RWs; writeable with +Rs; and stamped into the disc during manufacture for dash discs. That's why DVD dash is so inflexible.

I am assuming the 4 bit entry in the booktype will be pits (bumps if stamped) for a logical 1, or flat surface (for a logical 0). Wouldn't there be two pits (or bumps) in the booktype area of a blank DVD+R disk, since the booktype value of a DVD+R is a decimal value of 10 (or binary value of 1010)? My blank DVD+R's have two of Booktype bits set (to logical 1 state) - how does the burner change a bit or bump to a "flat surface". Again, the system/approach works, but with the limited info I have gathered, it's difficult for me to understand. I have seen the booktype value going from a decimal value of "ten" in my blank DVD+R to a zero after it has been set to a DVD-Rom in the recording process - just don't know how it is accomplished, and more importantly, how fooling the player helps the situation (e.g., per my comment above)

[cdanteek]

Where I have difficulty following is - a DVD +R stores information by varying the phase - just because the player was "fooled" into believing it was a disc it can read (DVD-Rom) doesn't mean it can handle a phase modulated signal.

Don't confuse the method used for burning, with reading the disc!

My blank DVD+R's have two of Booktype bits set (to logical 1 state) - how does the burner change a bit or bump to a "flat surface". Again, the system/approach works, but with the limited info I have gathered, it's difficult for me to understand.

During the production of a DVD-R disc the lead-in is pre-embossed (pre-written) it can’t be modified afterwards. During the production of DVD+R discs the space is untouched. Therefor a DVD+R(W) recorder will be able to modify this field.


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[Michael_C]

Don't confuse the method used for burning, with reading the disc!



During the production of a DVD-R disc the lead-in is pre-embossed (pre-written) it can’t be modified afterwards. During the production of DVD+R discs the space is untouched. Therefor a DVD+R(W) recorder will be able to modify this field.


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I understand the DVD-R lead-in area is set and this Booktype region in the leadin area can't be changed

I think my confusion is in trying to understand the physical difference in the Booktype between a blank DVD+R and recorded DVD+R disk.
When I look at the Booktype region on a blank DVD+R disc (as it comes out of production), it is set to type "DVD+R". This is before anything is written to the disk - is this Booktype value really a binary 1010 value? I would have thought so, since tools like Nero Disc Speed report a Booktype for a blank DVD+R disk as Booktype "DVD+R". And, the bit value for "DVD+R" is specified as 1010. Physical, I would think this region on the disk would consist of pits and flat areas (or optically equivalent), and wonder how the recording process can set this physical space to 0000 (for DVD-ROM). How do you fill in a pit on a write once piece of media?
Where is my thinking going astray?

What I'm trying to resolve in my mind is why, all of a sudden, one of my players that have successfully played 100's of TDK DVD+R discs has failed on two DVD+R disks in a row. I know I have PC equipment and software differences, but would assume any software problems would have been noted and fixed long ago. It's possible I had two discs with manufacturing problems that were at the top of the spindle just when I tried the first burn with new hardware and software, but this would be a surprise to me.
I don't want to toss a couple hundred TDK disks, nor keep burning them before understanding what might cause this problem.

Going back to my earlier post - I'm assuming when Roxio burns to a DVD +R disk the information is stored per the DVD+R spec (e.g., using phase modulation) and doesn't reflect the DVD-ROM format reflected in the modified Booktype value. Is this a reasonable assumption?

Maybe my best next step is to install the burner I've used for years, and see whether it can burn the TDK's successfully - then I wouldn't wonder if the problem was alignment issues, or beam characteristic differences on the new drive.

[cdanteek]

How do you fill in a pit on a write once piece of media?
Where is my thinking going astray?

You refuse to believe what you've been told and read.

I'm assuming when Roxio burns to a DVD +R disk the information is stored per the DVD+R spec (e.g., using phase modulation) and doesn't reflect the DVD-ROM format reflected in the modified Booktype value. Is this a reasonable assumption?

Roxio software won't bitset.If you have a drive that will and a utility to set the drive then Roxio software will burn it and the utility changes the booktype.

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[Michael_C]

You refuse to believe what you've been told and read.

If you're talking about believing on faith - sure I can. The only thing I'm looking for in this dialog is info if it's known. And, I understand this level of understanding may not be anything anyone on this forum has gotten into, nor cares about - but, I'd welcome the info if it's known.

Roxio software won't bitset.If you have a drive that will and a utility to set the drive then Roxio software will burn it and the utility changes the booktype.

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On the two DVD burn attempts that "failed", I only used Roxio's "Video Copy & Convert" to burn the DVD from a folder set - the DVD's Booktype was changed to DVD-Rom. No utility was used.

[cdanteek]

Do you know what drive/drives you have?

Example, 'Pioneer firmware sets DVD+R to DVD-Rom but have nothing in the firmware for a DVD+R/DL. So it burns as a DVD+R/DL.

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[Michael_C]

Do you know what drive/drives you have?

Example, 'Pioneer firmware sets DVD+R to DVD-Rom but have nothing in the firmware for a DVD+R/DL. So it burns as a DVD+R/DL.

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The only drive currently in the machine is an HL-DT-STDVD-RAM GH10L.

[Michael_C]

The only drive currently in the machine is an HL-DT-STDVD-RAM GH10L.

I installed my old NEC ND 3500 AG into another XP machine - I had hoped to install it in the Vista machine, but the Vista only had a SATA interface. Anyway, the results of burning discs from the TDK spindle won't be as useful, but found the next two TDK disks off the stack burned fine on the NEC 3500 AG drive. So, after burning two unsuccessfully on the Vista machine, the next two disks burned on the NEC drive were fine. I am curious to know if I would have had the same problem if I had tried a Verbatim DVD +R instead of the DVD -R.
I used "Disc Copier" in Roxio Creator 9, which is on the XP machine, from the folder set I had created on the Vista machine. In addition to successfully burning these disks, the other significant difference was the Booktype was left as DVD +R, where the HL-DT-STDVD-RAM GH10L drive had changed the Booktype to DVD +Rom.

Not sure what to make of this, but will contact HP to see what their tech support has to offer.

[cdanteek]

HL-DT-STDVD-RAM GH10L.

Did you read post #17? Your LG must set the Book Type in its firmware, as I told you before, Roxio software doesn't set it. The NEC doesn't set it in it's firmware, I own one...

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