13 replies to this topic

[nuspieds]

Hi,

Do the majority of set top DVD players playback dual layer DVD videos no problem?  Or do the set top boxes have to be "recent" (i.e., manufactured after a certain date/year)?

I'm just wondering how standard it is that the set top DVD players should be able to also play dual layer movies.  The reason I ask is that I am having inconsistent behavior on my two set top DVD players when I try to play the dual layer DVDs that I burn with MyDVD 10.  However, the regular single-layer 4.7 DVDs never have any problem.

Thanks.

[Beerman]

Hi,

Do the majority of set top DVD players playback dual layer DVD videos no problem?  Or do the set top boxes have to be "recent" (i.e., manufactured after a certain date/year)?

I'm just wondering how standard it is that the set top DVD players should be able to also play dual layer movies.  The reason I ask is that I am having inconsistent behavior on my two set top DVD players when I try to play the dual layer DVDs that I burn with MyDVD 10.  However, the regular single-layer 4.7 DVDs never have any problem.

Thanks.

You should check with your manufacturer but I have 2 players that are more than 2 years old that play DL discs just fine for me.  You may want to try a different brand as well as burn it at a slower speed.

[nuspieds]

Ok, I'll try burning at a slower speed because I do have to different models for the set top players.  One is a Toshiba and the other is a Denon.

Thanks for the tip.

[Jim_Hardin]

I have had some that are fussy about it.

My Pioneer from 1997 will not play any Consumer Burned DL.

Best thing is test one and see. Stick with good media, like Verbatim, to give yourself the best chance.

[cdanteek]

Ok, I'll try burning at a slower speed because I do have to different models for the set top players.  One is a Toshiba and the other is a Denon.

Thanks for the tip.

Explain the problem? Is your "inconsistent behavior" all through the disc or at the half way point (layer break)?

What disc's are you using? What Drive ID and firmware version are you running? #1 and #2 in my signature will get you the Media ID (MID) and Drive ID and firmware version. Roxio EMC 10 Suite Retail, Disc Information under tools, will only list your Drive ID and Firmware not a Disc MID.

There are things we might be able to suggest if we have that information.

cd

[nuspieds]

I have had some that are fussy about it.

My Pioneer from 1997 will not play any Consumer Burned DL.

Best thing is test one and see. Stick with good media, like Verbatim, to give yourself the best chance.

You're absolutely right and I only found out about DL DVDs when, one day, I was trying to backup one of my Microsoft DVDs and it wouldn't copy onto the 4.7GB disc.  That was back in 2003 on my laptop.  I then falsely assumed that, surely, my more-recent Toshiba and Denon players would fully support DL.

But as you state with your Pioneer, it has issues with Consumer-Burned DL and that's probably the case with both of my players, too.  I've never had any issues with commercial DVDs.

As far as good media, I haven't had much luck finding any good-name brands here where I live.  For the longest while all I could buy (in bulk of at least 10) was some brand called Nextech.  Never heard of them!  Only when I went back to buy some more that I noticed there was now TDK, so I bought them instead and that's what I was using.

I don't know what the deal is with variety around here, but I guess I'll have to order those Verbatims online.  I've heard good things about them.

[ogdens]

You're absolutely right and I only found out about DL DVDs when, one day, I was trying to backup one of my Microsoft DVDs and it wouldn't copy onto the 4.7GB disc.  That was back in 2003 on my laptop.  I then falsely assumed that, surely, my more-recent Toshiba and Denon players would fully support DL.

But as you state with your Pioneer, it has issues with Consumer-Burned DL and that's probably the case with both of my players, too.  I've never had any issues with commercial DVDs.

As far as good media, I haven't had much luck finding any good-name brands here where I live.  For the longest while all I could buy (in bulk of at least 10) was some brand called Nextech.  Never heard of them!  Only when I went back to buy some more that I noticed there was now TDK, so I bought them instead and that's what I was using.

I don't know what the deal is with variety around here, but I guess I'll have to order those Verbatims online.  I've heard good things about them.

FYI

http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm

[nuspieds]

Explain the problem? Is your "inconsistent behavior" all through the disc or at the half way point (layer break)?

What disc's are you using? What Drive ID and firmware version are you running? #1 and #2 in my signature will get you the Media ID (MID) and Drive ID and firmware version. Roxio EMC 10 Suite Retail, Disc Information under tools, will only list your Drive ID and Firmware not a Disc MID.

There are things we might be able to suggest if we have that information.

cd

The inconsistencies were:  One player would recognize the disc and load it and other wouldn't; one player would get stuck (during play mode) at a certain point and the other woudln't.  It was all playback issues like that.  It was frustrating because there were times when I thought the disc was fine, but then I tried it in the other player and I had problems.  And then the reverse would happen, etc.

Well, I did burn one disc at 4x and was there a difference?  Not really, as I still encountered the same inconsistencies and issues during playback.  Although at first glance it seemed to be a better burn at 4x, I had achieved similar results at higher burns.

It wasn't worth the effort to try to burn slower, as I didn't have confidence that would solve the problem.  So in the end, I used the DVD Shrink utility to put my DL discs onto SL discs.  It worked great.

I would say, however, what got me really thinking it was the DL was that a lot--but not all--of the playback issues were very common towards the end of the disc.  That's when I thought that maybe it has issues with the info on the second layer.  I'm convinced that my DVD players have issues with consumer-burned DLs, that's all.

Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions.

[Brendon]

I would say, however, what got me really thinking it was the DL was that a lot--but not all--of the playback issues were very common towards the end of the disc.  That's when I thought that maybe it has issues with the info on the second layer.  I'm convinced that my DVD players have issues with consumer-burned DLs, that's all.

There is an amazing array of different performance levels seen in the drives in DVD players, and often [even in high-priced players] they seem to have been chosen for cheapness rather than performance. It's quite likely that your players have issues with burned discs rather than professionally pressed ones. Some players even lack the few cents worth of extra components which would allow them to read RW discs.

All burned discs have lots of small errors, which are corrected by their error-correcting systems when they're being read.  [If there are too many to be corrected quickly, the playback will freeze for a while] These errors get more numerous out towards the edge of the disc because any flapping or vibration of the disc is emphasized out there and it's hard for the laser to stay focused or aligned if the disc is flapping faster than the laser servos can follow it.

A good way to check burn quality is to use a program which scans a burned disc and counts the errors. That way you can see which brand of disc works best with your burner, and which burn speed gives the least errors. One of the better scanners is Disc Speed, a free download from http://www.cdspeed2000.com/

Regards,
Brendon

[cdanteek]

I'm convinced that my DVD players have issues with consumer-burned DLs, that's all.

A quality burned and bitset disc should work.... We will never know because your convinced otherwise.....

cd

[nuspieds]

There is an amazing array of different performance levels seen in the drives in DVD players, and often [even in high-priced players] they seem to have been chosen for cheapness rather than performance. It's quite likely that your players have issues with burned discs rather than professionally pressed ones. Some players even lack the few cents worth of extra components which would allow them to read RW discs.

All burned discs have lots of small errors, which are corrected by their error-correcting systems when they're being read.  [If there are too many to be corrected quickly, the playback will freeze for a while] These errors get more numerous out towards the edge of the disc because any flapping or vibration of the disc is emphasized out there and it's hard for the laser to stay focused or aligned if the disc is flapping faster than the laser servos can follow it.

A good way to check burn quality is to use a program which scans a burned disc and counts the errors. That way you can see which brand of disc works best with your burner, and which burn speed gives the least errors. One of the better scanners is Disc Speed, a free download from http://www.cdspeed2000.com/

Regards,
Brendon

Hey, thanks for that reference to the utility.  That's really great and much appreciated!

It really is a shame about the DVD players...though I've tested my burned discs on my two players, I made copies for some family members and I can only hope and pray that their players will play them.  There's not much more I can do beyond that.

Thanks again for that utility.

A quality burned and bitset disc should work.... We will never know because your convinced otherwise.....

cd

I've done too many burns using 3 different burners and experiencing the same type of issues for me not to be convinced.  Moreover, the comments and experiences of other members (far more experienced than I am, that's for sure) also indicate that yes, indeed, there are issues with burned DLs and playback on players.

Just this past weekend--and I'm not counting all my other times--I burned over 30 DL discs, using 2 different burners, also 2 different burning software (EMC 10 and Nero), and playback on 3 different DVD players.  The result?  There were always issues.  All of the discs had to be scrapped.

When I downgraded to burning on SL discs, those discs played fine.  I only had about 3 that had burn and playback problems, but the rest that played well, did so, across the board, without issues.  A much different--VERY different--situation than the DL discs.

[Brendon]

It really is a shame about the DVD players...though I've tested my burned discs on my two players, I made copies for some family members and I can only hope and pray that their players will play them.  There's not much more I can do beyond that.

We think there might well be something more you can do.

Many set-top DVD players have issues with burned DVDs because their firmware [operating instructions held in a chip inside] is only written to look for discs marked as DVD-ROMs - pressed silver DVDs. They don't properly recognize any of the other type of burned DVDs, such as DVD-R; DVD+R; DVD-RW, DVD+RW etc. etc.

The useful thing to know is that DVD+ discs can have their 'booktype' set by many burners to show 'DVD-ROM' to the players, and this increases recognition rate and decreases compatability issues. There's an article about this with further references here. It might also indicate whether your burner(s) have the capability to set booktype.

Now, if you were to try some good quality DVD+ DL discs and burn them carefully [not too fast] with software such as Nero which can be told to set the booktype to DVD-ROM, there is a good chance that your burner can produce burned DL discs that your DVD players will like without compatibility problems. Nothing is guaranteed, but chances are good. Your choice whether to try it, of course.

Regards,
Brendon

[nuspieds]

Now, if you were to try some good quality DVD+ DL discs and burn them carefully [not too fast] with software such as Nero which can be told to set the booktype to DVD-ROM, there is a good chance that your burner can produce burned DL discs that your DVD players will like without compatibility problems. Nothing is guaranteed, but chances are good. Your choice whether to try it, of course.

Thanks for the reference information; it's very insightful.  I've been using DVD+ DL discs and, yes, when I was burning with Nero, I saw the "booktype" being set to DVD-ROM.

But I'm done "playing" with the DL burns for now; I'm too exhausted!    I'm completely happy with the results I got from the compression to SL.  Right now, I'm just happy I'm done and I've made all the copies and they work.

However, I do eventually plan on getting the DL burns to work...after all, why did I bother investing in two DL burners??!!   But I'll get to that after a much-deserved break.

Again, thanks for the info.

[cdanteek]

after all, why did I bother investing in two DL burners??!!

Have you seen any single layer DVD Burners available to buy in the past 4 years?

cd