10 replies to this topic

[vid2man97]

Forgive me if this topic is somewhere out there and I'm repeating something.
I've burned hundreds of DVDs over the last few years and have noticed something
odd from time to time.  
A DVD that has played fine, suddenly "develops" bad blocks, just sitting on a shelf.
I have been offered a few explanations and am curious to hear from some of the
many gurus I'm come to rely on for tips in these forums.
First...I've heard that it's simply a bad disc and the dye has degraded in an accelerated
manner other than the usual years long expected life span.  Hmmmm
Second, I've heard from some local businesses in my local city that specialize in video
work is that you should always burn at the slowest possible burn speed of your DVD burner.
They say that people are impatient and want to burn at 8 or 16 times, but that in this industry
to minimize errors and ensure longevity, burn at only 2 times.  
I remember years ago that this advice was given out when CDs came into use and their speeds
were increased regularly.  I always ignored that and never experienced problems.  But now that
I've seen a few (even though a few out of hundreds seems very low) "glitches", I've started to
wonder.  

Any thoughts from the gurus or others are welcomed.
Thanks in advance.

P-4  3Ghz HT Prescott
ASUS P4P800SE
2048 Megs DDR 400 ram
ATI 9600 128 meg video
LiteOn 167-T DVD/CD reader
Pioneer DVR-107D DVD/CD burner
80 Gig Seagate SATA
120 Gig Seagate SATA
200 Gig WD SATA
Firewire capture

[myguggi]

vid2man97, on Apr 8 2006, 04:55 PM, said:

Forgive me if this topic is somewhere out there and I'm repeating something.
I've burned hundreds of DVDs over the last few years and have noticed something
odd from time to time.  
A DVD that has played fine, suddenly "develops" bad blocks, just sitting on a shelf.
I have been offered a few explanations and am curious to hear from some of the
many gurus I'm come to rely on for tips in these forums.
First...I've heard that it's simply a bad disc and the dye has degraded in an accelerated
manner other than the usual years long expected life span.  Hmmmm
Second, I've heard from some local businesses in my local city that specialize in video
work is that you should always burn at the slowest possible burn speed of your DVD burner.
They say that people are impatient and want to burn at 8 or 16 times, but that in this industry
to minimize errors and ensure longevity, burn at only 2 times.  
I remember years ago that this advice was given out when CDs came into use and their speeds
were increased regularly.  I always ignored that and never experienced problems.  But now that
I've seen a few (even though a few out of hundreds seems very low) "glitches", I've started to
wonder.  

Any thoughts from the gurus or others are welcomed.
Thanks in advance.

P-4  3Ghz HT Prescott
ASUS P4P800SE
2048 Megs DDR 400 ram
ATI 9600 128 meg video
LiteOn 167-T DVD/CD reader
Pioneer DVR-107D DVD/CD burner
80 Gig Seagate SATA
120 Gig Seagate SATA
200 Gig WD SATA
Firewire capture

I never burn any DVD (or CD at maximum speed) usually I select at most half the max available speed. It might take a bit longer but I've hardly had any coasters since I've started using that method.
Do thos "imperfections" always appear at the same point? Do they appear on all players including you computer player? Perhaps you just need to run a cleaner to clean of the burner/player lenses.

[sknis]

Are any of the discs labeled ? If so, that could contribute to degradation. I'm sure you are not talking about RW.  Those will go pretty quickly. Some discs degrade at an accelerated rate - pretty soon we'll find out that the 35 + year life of VHS tapes is really not all that bad.  I wonder of 35 years from now, we'll be able to find a VHS player.  Lets see, that will make me 98.  I probably will not care as I sit in a chair dribbling my oatmeal down my beard.

vid2man97, on Apr 8 2006, 03:55 PM, said:

Forgive me if this topic is somewhere out there and I'm repeating something.
A DVD that has played fine, suddenly "develops" bad blocks, just sitting on a shelf.
Any thoughts from the gurus or others are welcomed.
Thanks in advance.

P-4 3Ghz HT Prescott
ASUS P4P800SE
2048 Megs DDR 400 ram
ATI 9600 128 meg video
LiteOn 167-T DVD/CD reader
Pioneer DVR-107D DVD/CD burner
80 Gig Seagate SATA
120 Gig Seagate SATA
200 Gig WD SATA
Firewire capture

[vid2man97]

Thanks for the feedback.
What's a little more time in the big scheme of things anyway.  I'll probably start to back off on the burn speed, just to be sure.  It's mostly because now I'm actually selling some stuff and I'd rather not have people complaining about errors.
But just to answer back...
No, no way, no how do I burn on RW unless it's just to do a test.  
And, no I never use a disc with a label on it.  I actually use discs with a printable surface.  Pop them in an appropriate inkjet (after they're burned) and they look halfway decent.  
Oh, and the "errors"...no they never seem to happen at the same spot and I have a disc or two that have a few bad spots.  And as I mentioned, the oddest part about it all is that they initally played fine (DVD player and puter), but after months on a shelf errors just appeared.  I guess I should be thankfull that it only happened to a few discs that can be redone.
Thanks again....till next time I have a question...

[lynn98109]

vid2man97, on Apr 8 2006, 05:53 PM, said:

Thanks for the feedback.
What's a little more time in the big scheme of things anyway.  I'll probably start to back off on the burn speed, just to be sure.  It's mostly because now I'm actually selling some stuff and I'd rather not have people complaining about errors.
But just to answer back...
No, no way, no how do I burn on RW unless it's just to do a test.  
And, no I never use a disc with a label on it.  I actually use discs with a printable surface.  Pop them in an appropriate inkjet (after they're burned) and they look halfway decent.  
Oh, and the "errors"...no they never seem to happen at the same spot and I have a disc or two that have a few bad spots.  And as I mentioned, the oddest part about it all is that they initally played fine (DVD player and puter), but after months on a shelf errors just appeared.  I guess I should be thankfull that it only happened to a few discs that can be redone.
Thanks again....till next time I have a question...

If they are ok to start with and then develop problems, it could be the dye or it could be the disc quality.

Have you tried different brands?  (Memorex seems to have more complaints posted than all other brands put together.)

Or, even different spindles of the same brand could be from different sources - there are only a few factories in the world where optical discs are actually made, and the brand-owners order customized discs from those factories.

Lynn

[vid2man97]

Yes, they were discs I no longer use.  I don't remember the name but weren't generic.  I now use RiData.
I thought I heard someone say Memorex and RiData are sort of one and the same.  Hope not.  Can anyone confirm or deny this?
Which are the most recommended...other than I though I saw a lot of good words for Verbatim?

thanks...

[REDWAGON]

Have to agree once more that Memorex is terrible and RiData in my opinion is not far behind. Verbatim is good and TDK also. However, TDK is going out of the media business shortly so stock up when you get a chance.

Frank.....

[vid2man97]

I'll toss my RiDatas onto a back shelf for use on non critical projects or burn tests only.
I'm off to stock up on some Verbatims.

thanks for the tips....

[lynn98109]

vid2man97, on Apr 9 2006, 06:52 AM, said:

I'll toss my RiDatas onto a back shelf for use on non critical projects or burn tests only.
I'm off to stock up on some Verbatims.

thanks for the tips....

If you don't already have it, Dvd Info Pro (www.dvdinfopro.com) can tell you who made the disc, and a lot of other info.  There is both a free and a paid Version - the free one has to be renewed a lot.

Lynn

[ml]

I think the advice you got was correct. The DVDs can degrade, get scratched, etc. and become unreadable. The burn speed can also contribute to the unreadablity of DVDs.

Personally, I make backup copies of the DVDs AND burn the DVD to a backup hard drive. If the DVD is irreplaceable, I take the edited video back to a new tape and save DV AVI footage to a hard drive.

The 'standards' for mpeg2 vary widely, so be aware that video editing and DVD standards are in a state of flux. Not to mention that computers are changing so rapidly that you need to make certain that what you make today will be able to be read by your computer next year.

Edited by mlpasley, 09 April 2006 - 12:53 PM.

[vid2man97]

Yes that's the scariest part, that "standards" can change.  I'm usually pretty good at keeping backups but you're so right that a backup in AVI is worth its weight in gold.  
Don't forget to keep the orginal tape (if we're talking camcorder) too.  I've got friends that just burn a DVD, then "tape over" the original tape.  Don't be cheap.  If the memories were priceless enough to tape in the first place, they're worth the few buck for the tape.  
If they don't change the standards for that too years from now...lol.