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Emc 8.2 Xe And +/- Rw Media


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#1 sehcmptr

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 11:49 AM

Newcomer to forum

This drive (TDK_DVDRW1280B  ) will not recognize the presence of DVD (-R, +RW Memorex and TDK media) with ANY burning software, Norton Ghost 10 (which explains the Gear Software)
including WinXP (udfs.sys 5.1.2600.5512 (xpsp.080413-2111))

Using "DVD Identifier” (Kris Schoofs, CDFreaks.com) the “Identify” fails on any DVD inserted:
” Unable To Initialize Disc In Time : Not ready - Logical unit not ready [02/04/01]”

A review of several sites indicates that “Memorex” is not the best, but should be better that 80% acceptable. Apparently, TDK might be better.

With a Memorex CD+RW, Roxio Creator will “go through the routine” of “Format” (for DLA Drag-to-disk”), and fail at the very end with “Format failed due to write protect”

With a Memorex CD+RW, Roxio Creator will “go through the routine” of ”Burn Image” (an  *.ISO created by same program)
and “Data Disk”, each operation producing a nice green check mark, only to end up “blank” (and erasable: not destroyed)

Roxio Creator will create “Data Disk” with Memorex CD-R on this burner rather regularly.

(iTunes burns audio CD to same media regularly)

A note: the Roxio Product is registered, but I have NEVER been able to “connect to the server” with the internal “On-Line” registration in the program. This software utilizes a series of *.htm and javascript files during this process. I have McAfee personal firewall giving “Full access” to Roxio_Central.exe”. Is there an “Activation” process required?

A second note: I did an "archive" of Norton Ghost 10 files to same media (Memorex DVD+RW (probably from same spindle)) about 6 months ago, same Burner, same Norton Install, but BEFORE Creator 8.2 XE. These DVDs are not recognized either. (I think I had Creator 6 installed at the time. Creator 6 was meticulously removed, more thorough than Roxio procedure; as an MCSE/MCSD, I am not afraid of the registry so CLSID, APPID, TypeLib related to Creator 6 were all removed.)

SO the big issue; recognization (and use) of DVDs, and once the CD+RW media is recognized, why will the burn appear to occur, but the disk comes out blank?  Please help.


As a side note, these results are precisely the same with Version: 9.4.007 (RIMM) which you do not support.

Here is the software/hardware

Roxio Creator 8.2 XE (obtained with a Pioneer drive; drive is NOT installed yet)
Version: 8.2.301
Build: 823B01C, PIA
Serial Number:
Copyright: Sonic Solutions 2006

Module Name: PX Engine
Build: 4.10.28a, 31
Copyright: Sonic Solutions 2006

Module Name: Roxio Core
Version: 3.2.0
Build: 3.3.69a, PIA
Copyright: Sonic Solutions 2006

Module Name: Roxio Creator Audio
Version: 3.2.0
Build: 320B94A, PIA
Copyright: Sonic Solutions 2006

Module Name: Roxio Creator Copy
Version: 3.2.0
Build: 320B87A, PIA
Copyright: Sonic Solutions 2006

Module Name: Roxio Creator Data
Version: 3.2.0
Build: 320B92A, PIA
Copyright: Sonic Solutions 2006

Module Name: Roxio Creator Tools
Version: 3.2.0
Build: 320B73A, PIA
Copyright: Sonic Solutions 2006

Roxio DLA  Name  Ver 5.2.0 DLA32_52  OEM  PNR  BldVer 520B72A


System:
   Windows XP Professional  Build: 2600
   RAM: 1014MB
   Memory In Use: 88%
   DirectX 9.0  Build: 904
   Intel D845GBV , Genuine Intel P4 1.80 GhZ x86 Family 15 Model 2 Stepping 4

Product Files:
   Install Version: 2.31-232B24A-05-0000-10-1
   Cineplayer.exe     4.5.0.286
   scmedialibrary.dll   4.5.0.115
   scvcd.dll           4.5.0.167
   scfile.dll           4.5.0.171
   scvr.dll             4.5.0.100
   kcams.dll           4.5.0.133
   migrate.dll         4.5.0.103
   SonicCinePlayer.rskn 2.1.0.5
   CinemasterVideo.dll   2.7.6.9087
   CinemasterAudio.dll   2.5.4.1414
   CinemasterVCDNav.dll 1.0.0.191
   SonicDVDDashVRNav.dll 1.3.0.119
   quartz.dll           6.5.2600.5596
   qdvd.dll             6.5.2600.5512

TDK_DVDRW1280B  Firmware T7S4
has been moved to Secondary IDE MASTER on 80 wire cable (no slave)

It is sensing Ultra DMA Mode 2
It has DLA enabled and "Enable CD recording on this drive" checked in “Properties”
Class {4D36E965-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318} had the Upper and lower filters deleted
The secondary IDE was Uninstalled from Control Panel, and when the machine reboots (or "Device manager" is told to "Re-Scan") the following "driver files" are loaded (i.e. appear in Properties/Drivers):

cdrom.sys 5.1.2600.5512 MICROSOFT
DLACDBHM,SYS 5.20.03A                 SONIC SOLUTIONS
DRVMCDB.SYS 3.30.22A                 SONIC SOLUTIONS
GEARAspiWDM.SYS 2.00.07.03                 GEAR SOFTWARE
IMAPI.SYS 5.1.2600.5512 MICROSOFT
PxHelp20.sys 3.00.83A                 SONIC SOLUTIONS
redbook.sys 5.1.2600.5512 . MICROSOFT
storprop.sys 5.1.2600.5512 MICROSOFT

The hard drive on the Primary Master is partitioned with the System on an NTFS and
16 Gig free on the FAT (for all related project files and output, along with “TEMP” directory)

When Creator 8 fails, the advanced info is as follows:


Sense: 00  ASC: 00  ASCQ: 00 (Command 00)
-------------------------------------------------------
px.dll: 4.10.28.500
pxafs.dll: 4.10.28.500
pxdrv.dll: 1.2.31.0
pxmas.dll: 4.10.28.500
pxsfs.dll: 4.10.28.500
pxwave.dll: 4.10.28.500
pxwma.dll: 1.0.0.3

Here’s the HiJackThis log (everything makes sense to me)

Logfile of HijackThis v1.99.1
Scan saved at 11:34:02, on 9/22/2008
Platform: Windows XP SP3 (WinNT 5.01.2600)
MSIE: Internet Explorer v7.00 (7.00.6000.16674)

R0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page = http://www.advfn.com/p.php?pid=mon
R0 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page = http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=69157
R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Window Title = HORSFALL CONSULTING PRESENTS:
R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings,ProxyOverride = *.local
R3 - URLSearchHook: Yahoo! Toolbar - {EF99BD32-C1FB-11D2-892F-0090271D4F88} - (no file)
F2 - REG:system.ini: UserInit=E:\WINDOWS\system32\userinit.exe
O2 - BHO: Adobe PDF Reader Link Helper - {06849E9F-C8D7-4D59-B87D-784B7D6BE0B3} - E:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\Acrobat\ActiveX\AcroIEHelper.dll

O2 - BHO: DriveLetterAccess - {5CA3D70E-1895-11CF-8E15-001234567890} - E:\WINDOWS\System32\DLA\DLASHX_W.DLL
O2 - BHO: SSVHelper Class - {761497BB-D6F0-462C-B6EB-D4DAF1D92D43} - E:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0_07\bin\ssv.dll
O2 - BHO: scriptproxy - {7DB2D5A0-7241-4E79-B68D-6309F01C5231} - E:\Program Files\McAfee\VirusScan\scriptsn.dll
O2 - BHO: IE DevToolbar BHO - {CC7E636D-39AA-49b6-B511-65413DA137A1} - E:\Program Files\Microsoft\Internet Explorer Developer Toolbar\IEDevToolbar.dll

O2 - BHO: EpsonToolBandKicker Class - {E99421FB-68DD-40F0-B4AC-B7027CAE2F1A} - E:\Program Files\EPSON\EPSON Web-To-Page\EPSON Web-To-Page.dll

O3 - Toolbar: EPSON Web-To-Page - {EE5D279F-081B-4404-994D-C6B60AAEBA6D} - E:\Program Files\EPSON\EPSON Web-To-Page\EPSON Web-To-Page.dll

O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [CoolSwitch] E:\WINDOWS\system32\taskswitch.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SoundMax] "E:\Program Files\Analog Devices\SoundMAX\SMax4.exe" /tray
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Kernel and Hardware Abstraction Layer] KHALMNPR.EXE
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [BluetoothAuthenticationAgent] rundll32.exe bthprops.cpl,,BluetoothAuthenticationAgent
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Microsoft Voice] E:\Program Files\Microsoft Voice\msvoice.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Windows Defender] "E:\Program Files\Windows Defender\MSASCui.exe" -hide
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [mcagent_exe] E:\Program Files\McAfee.com\Agent\mcagent.exe /runkey
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [MPFExe] E:\PROGRA~1\McAfee.com\Personal Firewall\MpfTray.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SunJavaUpdateSched] "E:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0_07\bin\jusched.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [HotKeysCmds] E:\WINDOWS\system32\hkcmd.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [ccApp] "E:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\ccApp.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Norton Ghost 10.0] "F:\Program Files\Norton Ghost\Agent\GhostTray.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [QuickTime Task] "E:\Program Files\QuickTime\QTTask.exe" -atboottime
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [DLA] E:\WINDOWS\System32\DLA\DLACTRLW.EXE
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [RoxWatchTray] "E:\Program Files\Common Files\Roxio Shared\9.0\SharedCOM\RoxWatchTray9.exe"
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [MSMSGS] "E:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exe" /background
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [LDM] E:\Program Files\Logitech\Desktop Messenger\8876480\Program\LogitechDesktopMessenger.exe

O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [ISUSPM] "E:\Program Files\Common Files\InstallShield\UpdateService\ISUSPM.exe" -scheduler
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [H/PC Connection Agent] "E:\Program Files\Microsoft ActiveSync\wcescomm.exe"
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [CTSyncU.exe] "E:\Program Files\Creative\Sync Manager Unicode\CTSyncU.exe"
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [ctfmon.exe] E:\WINDOWS\system32\ctfmon.exe
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [EPSON Stylus Photo R200 Series] E:\WINDOWS\System32\spool\DRIVERS\W32X86\3\E_S4I2H1.EXE /P39 "EPSON Stylus Photo R200 Series" /M "Stylus Photo R200" /EF "HKCU"

O4 - Startup: Dragon NaturallySpeaking.lnk = E:\Program Files\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking9\Program\natspeak.exe
O4 - Startup: Narrator.lnk = X:\WINDOWS\system32\narrator.exe
O4 - Startup: Shortcut to GhostTray.lnk = F:\Program Files\Norton Ghost\Agent\GhostTray.exe
O4 - Startup: TDK Launcher.lnk = E:\Program Files\TDK\TDKLauncher\TDKLauncher.exe
O4 - Global Startup: Adobe Reader Speed Launch.lnk = X:\Program Files\Adobe\Reader 8.0\Reader\reader_sl.exe
O4 - Global Startup: Bluetooth.lnk = ?
O4 - Global Startup: Logitech Desktop Messenger.lnk = E:\Program Files\Logitech\Desktop Messenger\8876480\Program\LogitechDesktopMessenger.exe

O4 - Global Startup: Logitech SetPoint.lnk = E:\Program Files\Logitech\SetPoint\SetPoint.exe
O4 - Global Startup: Microsoft Office.lnk = X:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\OSA9.EXE
O4 - Global Startup: Sonic CinePlayer Quick Launch.lnk = E:\Program Files\Common Files\Sonic Shared\CineTray.exe
O8 - Extra context menu item: Send to &Bluetooth Device... - E:\Program Files\WIDCOMM\Bluetooth Software\btsendto_ie_ctx.htm

O8 - Extra context menu item: Voice Editing Launcher - E:\Program Files\Panasonic\Voice Editing\VEd1_IEMenu.html
O9 - Extra button: (no name) - {08B0E5C0-4FCB-11CF-AAA5-00401C608501} - E:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0_07\bin\ssv.dll
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Sun Java Console - {08B0E5C0-4FCB-11CF-AAA5-00401C608501} - E:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0_07\bin\ssv.dll

O9 - Extra button: Create Mobile Favorite - {2EAF5BB1-070F-11D3-9307-00C04FAE2D4F} - E:\PROGRA~1\Microsoft ActiveSync\INetRepl.dll

O9 - Extra button: (no name) - {2EAF5BB2-070F-11D3-9307-00C04FAE2D4F} - E:\PROGRA~1\Microsoft ActiveSync\INetRepl.dll

O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Create Mobile Favorite... - {2EAF5BB2-070F-11D3-9307-00C04FAE2D4F} - E:\PROGRA~1\Microsoft ActiveSync\INetRepl.dll

O9 - Extra button: IE Developer Toolbar - {48FFE35F-36D9-44bd-A6CC-1D34414EAC0D} - E:\Program Files\Microsoft\Internet Explorer Developer Toolbar\IEDevToolbar.dll

O9 - Extra button: @btrez.dll,-4015 - {CCA281CA-C863-46ef-9331-5C8D4460577F} - E:\Program Files\WIDCOMM\Bluetooth Software\btsendto_ie.htm

O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: @btrez.dll,-12650 - {CCA281CA-C863-46ef-9331-5C8D4460577F} - E:\Program Files\WIDCOMM\Bluetooth Software\btsendto_ie.htm

O9 - Extra button: (no name) - {e2e2dd38-d088-4134-82b7-f2ba38496583} - %windir%\Network Diagnostic\xpnetdiag.exe (file missing)

O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: @xpsp3res.dll,-20001 - {e2e2dd38-d088-4134-82b7-f2ba38496583} - %windir%\Network Diagnostic\xpnetdiag.exe (file missing)

O9 - Extra button: Messenger - {FB5F1910-F110-11d2-BB9E-00C04F795683} - E:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exe
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Windows Messenger - {FB5F1910-F110-11d2-BB9E-00C04F795683} - E:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exe

O10 - Unknown file in Winsock LSP: e:\program files\bonjour\mdnsnsp.dll
O11 - Options group: [INTERNATIONAL] International*
O15 - Trusted Zone: http://www.riverside.courts.ca.gov
O15 - Trusted Zone: http://*.mcafee.com
O16 - DPF: ADVFN 4v4 - http://www.advfn.com/p.php?pid=loadercab
O16 - DPF: {0A5FD7C5-A45C-49FC-ADB5-9952547D5715} (Creative Software AutoUpdate) - http://www.creative.com/su/ocx/15026/CTSUEng.cab

O16 - DPF: {21F49842-BFA9-11D2-A89C-00104B62BDDA} (ChartFX Internet Control) - http://www.schaeffersresearch.com/download/CfxIEAx.cab

O16 - DPF: {44990200-3C9D-426D-81DF-AAB636FA4345} (Symantec SmartIssue) - https://www-secure.symantec.com/techsupp/as...abs/tgctlsi.cab

O16 - DPF: {44990301-3C9D-426D-81DF-AAB636FA4345} (Symantec Script Runner Class) - https://www-secure.symantec.com/techsupp/as...abs/tgctlsr.cab

O16 - DPF: {4788DE0A-3552-49EA-AC8C-233DA52523B9} (AxLoaderPassword Class) - http://www.blackberry.com/devicesoftware/AxLoader.cab

O16 - DPF: {5AE58FCF-6F6A-49B2-B064-02492C66E3F4} (MUCatalogWebControl Class) - http://test.catalog.update.microsoft.com/v...b?1177577013406

O16 - DPF: {67DABFBF-D0AB-41FA-9C46-CC0F21721616} - http://download.divx.com/player/DivXBrowserPlugin.cab
O16 - DPF: {6E32070A-766D-4EE6-879C-DC1FA91D2FC3} (MUWebControl Class) - http://www.update.microsoft.com/microsoftu...b?1180831775265

O16 - DPF: {D27CDB6E-AE6D-11CF-96B8-444553540000} (Shockwave Flash Object) - http://fpdownload2.macromedia.com/get/shoc...ash/swflash.cab

O16 - DPF: {EF58E341-49C3-4156-A3C4-5FFCA7C1EAB7} (EURAS_Portal.Gateway) - http://wwx.euras.com/euras/EIS/plugin/euras.cab

O16 - DPF: {F6ACF75C-C32C-447B-9BEF-46B766368D29} (Creative Software AutoUpdate Support Package) - http://www.creative.com/su/ocx/15028/CTPID.cab

O18 - Protocol: bwfile-8876480 - {9462A756-7B47-47BC-8C80-C34B9B80B32B} - E:\Program Files\Logitech\Desktop Messenger\8876480\Program\GAPlugProtocol-8876480.dll

O18 - Protocol: ms-help - {314111C7-A502-11D2-BBCA-00C04F8EC294} - E:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Help\hxds.dll

O18 - Protocol: x-atng - {7E8717B0-D862-11D5-8C9E-00010304F989} - E:\Program Files\Fidelity Investments\Fidelity Active Trader\System\atngprot.dll

O20 - Winlogon Notify: dimsntfy - %SystemRoot%\System32\dimsntfy.dll (file missing)
O20 - Winlogon Notify: igfxcui - E:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\igfxsrvc.dll
O20 - Winlogon Notify: LBTWlgn - e:\program files\common files\logitech\bluetooth\LBTWlgn.dll
O20 - Winlogon Notify: WgaLogon - E:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\WgaLogon.dll
O21 - SSODL: WPDShServiceObj - {AAA288BA-9A4C-45B0-95D7-94D524869DB5} - E:\WINDOWS\system32\WPDShServiceObj.dll
O23 - Service: ABBYY FineReader 9.0 PE Licensing Service (ABBYY.Licensing.FineReader.Professional.9.0) - Unknown owner - E:\Program Files\Common Files\ABBYY\FineReader\9.00\Licensing\PE\NetworkLicenseServer.exe" -service (file missing)

O23 - Service: Acronis Scheduler2 Service (AcrSch2Svc) - Acronis - E:\Program Files\Common Files\Seagate\Schedule2\schedul2.exe

O23 - Service: Automatic LiveUpdate Scheduler - Symantec Corporation - E:\Program Files\Symantec\LiveUpdate\AluSchedulerSvc.exe

O23 - Service: Bluetooth Service (btwdins) - Broadcom Corporation. - E:\Program Files\WIDCOMM\Bluetooth Software\bin\btwdins.exe

O23 - Service: Symantec Event Manager (ccEvtMgr) - Symantec Corporation - E:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\ccEvtMgr.exe

O23 - Service: Symantec Password Validation (ccPwdSvc) - Symantec Corporation - E:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\ccPwdSvc.exe

O23 - Service: Symantec Settings Manager (ccSetMgr) - Symantec Corporation - E:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\ccSetMgr.exe

O23 - Service: Cepstral License Server - Cepstral, LLC - E:\Program Files\Cepstral\bin\CepstralLicSrv.exe
O23 - Service: Creative Service for CDROM Access - Creative Technology Ltd - E:\WINDOWS\system32\CTsvcCDA.exe
O23 - Service: Gear Software driver (GEARSecurity) - GEAR Software - E:\WINDOWS\System32\GEARSec.exe
O23 - Service: Google Updater Service (gusvc) - Google - E:\Program Files\Google\Common\Google Updater\GoogleUpdaterService.exe

O23 - Service: InstallDriver Table Manager (IDriverT) - Macrovision Corporation - E:\Program Files\Common Files\InstallShield\Driver\1050\Intel 32\IDriverT.exe

O23 - Service: Intel® Active Monitor (imonNT) - Intel Corp. - E:\Program Files\Intel\Intel® Active Monitor\imonnt.exe
O23 - Service: LightScribeService Direct Disc Labeling Service (LightScribeService) - Hewlett-Packard Company - E:\Program Files\Common Files\LightScribe\LSSrvc.exe

O23 - Service: LiveUpdate - Symantec Corporation - E:\Program Files\Symantec\LiveUpdate\LuComServer_3_4.EXE
O23 - Service: Lexar JD31 (LxrJD31s) - Unknown owner - E:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\LxrJD31s.exe
O23 - Service: McAfee Services (mcmscsvc) - McAfee, Inc. - E:\PROGRA~1\McAfee\MSC\mcmscsvc.exe
O23 - Service: McAfee Network Agent (McNASvc) - McAfee, Inc. - e:\PROGRA~1\COMMON~1\mcafee\mna\mcnasvc.exe
O23 - Service: McAfee Scanner (McODS) - McAfee, Inc. - E:\PROGRA~1\McAfee\VirusScan\mcods.exe
O23 - Service: McAfee Proxy Service (McProxy) - McAfee, Inc. - e:\PROGRA~1\COMMON~1\mcafee\mcproxy\mcproxy.exe
O23 - Service: McAfee Real-time Scanner (McShield) - McAfee, Inc. - E:\PROGRA~1\McAfee\VirusScan\mcshield.exe
O23 - Service: McAfee SystemGuards (McSysmon) - McAfee, Inc. - E:\PROGRA~1\McAfee\VirusScan\mcsysmon.exe
O23 - Service: MirraSync Service (Mirra.Service) - Seagate Technology - E:\program files\mirra\mirra.service.exe
O23 - Service: McAfee Personal Firewall Service (MpfService) - McAfee Corporation - E:\PROGRA~1\McAfee.com\Personal Firewall\MPFSERVICE.exe

O23 - Service: Intel NCS NetService (NetSvc) - Intel® Corporation - E:\Program Files\Intel\NCS\Sync\NetSvc.exe
O23 - Service: Norton Ghost - Symantec Corporation - F:\Program Files\Norton Ghost\Agent\VProSvc.exe
O23 - Service: Roxio Hard Drive Watcher (RoxWatch) - Sonic Solutions - E:\Program Files\Common Files\Roxio Shared\SharedCOM8\RoxWatch.exe

O23 - Service: stllssvr - MicroVision Development, Inc. - E:\Program Files\Common Files\SureThing Shared\stllssvr.exe
O23 - Service: Symantec Core LC - Symantec Corporation - E:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\CCPD-LC\symlcsvc.exe

O23 - Service: Symantec RemoteAssist - Symantec, Inc. - E:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\Support Controls\ssrc.exe



#2 gi7omy

gi7omy

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 12:05 PM

You have an OEM version of the software which will be limited in some ways

One possibility is that it can also be limited to the new drive which, as you say, hasn't been installed yet

OEM versions don't need 'registration' in the same way as full retail ones
If it ain't broke, fiddle with it until it breaks, then fiddle with it until you get it fixed

"Rincewind could scream for mercy in nineteen languages and just scream in another forty-four "

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1 x 160 GB, 1 x 330 GB, 1 x 400 GB IDE drives
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EMC 7.5 on Windows XP 32 SP3
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#3 ogdens

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 12:45 PM

Try contacting Pioneer as it is THEIR oem Roxio software.

Edited by ogdens, 22 September 2008 - 12:46 PM.





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