30 replies to this topic

[RandyGR]

Hello.

New to the forum and need help.

First a little background:

I have been using Pinnacle Studio for several years for importing (via firewire) , creating and buring standard DVD movie from standard DV camcorders and photos from my digital SLR to standard DVD.  I still have a lot of good quality movie clips (.VOB files) and high res jpegs on my hard drives. No problems.

I have a new Panasonic Plasma TV and Blue Ray player. Everything fine here.

My PC spec:
XP-SP3
AMD XP 2.8 processor (single)
2 gig memory
2 - 320 SATA drives
ATI 512mb PCIE
7 channel sound
Firewire-USB 2.1
No conflicts.

I just purchased Creator 2009, because of the ability to burn HD quality video to standard DVD, to play on my BlueRay player.  No blueray burner yet.

Installed Creator 2009 just fine and it works fine. No software related problems. No crashes or conflicts, yet.  

Here is the problem:
Performed a test project in Creator 2009. I imported a good quality .vob movie file, that was previously created in Studio. I also added a few jpegs. I started the project as a AVCHD (1080P) project, because I wanted the end result to be a HD DVD, recorded on standard DVD media. Again everything went fine. It took several hours for the converting-burning process, but it worked. My Blueray reconized the DVD as AVCHD (1080P) and it played.  Overall video quality looked good and photo quality looked great.  But, the video is "choppy". By choppy, I mean that it seems to skip every other frame. If it wasn't for that, it would be great. But the frame skipping is not acceptable to me.

Any suggestions on how to get a better quality? What did I do wrong?  I don't know much about Creator 2009 at this point. I want to try another, but need your help.

Randy

[grandpabruce]

Hello.

New to the forum and need help.

First a little background:

I have been using Pinnacle Studio for several years for importing (via firewire) , creating and buring standard DVD movie from standard DV camcorders and photos from my digital SLR to standard DVD.  I still have a lot of good quality movie clips (.VOB files) and high res jpegs on my hard drives. No problems.

I have a new Panasonic Plasma TV and Blue Ray player. Everything fine here.

My PC spec:
XP-SP3
AMD XP 2.8 processor (single)
2 gig memory
2 - 320 SATA drives
ATI 512mb PCIE
7 channel sound
Firewire-USB 2.1
No conflicts.

I just purchased Creator 2009, because of the ability to burn HD quality video to standard DVD, to play on my BlueRay player.  No blueray burner yet.

Installed Creator 2009 just fine and it works fine. No software related problems. No crashes or conflicts, yet.  

Here is the problem:
Performed a test project in Creator 2009. I imported a good quality .vob movie file, that was previously created in Studio. I also added a few jpegs. I started the project as a AVCHD (1080P) project, because I wanted the end result to be a HD DVD, recorded on standard DVD media. Again everything went fine. It took several hours for the converting-burning process, but it worked. My Blueray reconized the DVD as AVCHD (1080P) and it played.  Overall video quality looked good and photo quality looked great.  But, the video is "choppy". By choppy, I mean that it seems to skip every other frame. If it wasn't for that, it would be great. But the frame skipping is not acceptable to me.

Any suggestions on how to get a better quality? What did I do wrong?  I don't know much about Creator 2009 at this point. I want to try another, but need your help.

Randy

What type and brand of Media are you using?  Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden are generally accepted as the best out there.  Verbatim can be purchased at Best Buy, and other outlets like it.  Taiyo Yuden has to be purchased online.

[RandyGR]

What type and brand of Media are you using?  Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden are generally accepted as the best out there.  Verbatim can be purchased at Best Buy, and other outlets like it.  Taiyo Yuden has to be purchased online.

Verbatim. The same batch that I have used in Studio for 3 months.

Randy R.  

What type and brand of Media are you using?  Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden are generally accepted as the best out there.  Verbatim can be purchased at Best Buy, and other outlets like it.  Taiyo Yuden has to be purchased online.

Could it something in the encoding of .vob to AVCHD?  Do I have any other HD choices? I really did not see any other user changable settings, after choosing AVCHD output.

If I try importing DV (SD camcorder) thru firewiare in Creator, what format does Creator save as?

Randy

[sknis]

Could it something in the encoding of .vob to AVCHD?  Do I have any other HD choices? I really did not see any other user changable settings, after choosing AVCHD output.

If I try importing DV (SD camcorder) thru firewiare in Creator, what format does Creator save as?

Randy

Please post your computer specs; especially your video card.  

Creator will import your choice but AVI would maintain the best quality; mpg2 would be second best.

[RandyGR]

Please post your computer specs; especially your video card.  

Creator will import your choice but AVI would maintain the best quality; mpg2 would be second best.

I have an update. Just finished another AVCHD slide show and watched it on my blueray. This one was photos only, no video. My problem is actually more like a "flicker". The video flickers to a beat of about once every second. When it flickers, it breifly (millsecond) stops the video, which at first glance looked like it was skipping frames.  Any idea how to get rid of the video flicker? I don't see any settings in Creator. Do you know if the AVCHD output is interlaced or progressive?

My PC spec:
XP-SP3
AMD XP 2.8 processor (single)
2 gig memory
2 - 320 SATA drives
ATI radeon 3650, 512mb PCIE (latest ATI driver)
7 channel sound
Firewire-USB 2.1
No conflicts.


Randy

Edited by RandyGR, 17 December 2008 - 07:31 PM.

[RandyGR]

I have an update. Just finished another AVCHD slide show and watched it on my blueray. This one was photos only, no video. My problem is actually more like a "flicker". The video flickers to a beat of about once every second. When it flickers, it breifly (millsecond) stops the video, which at first glance looked like it was skipping frames.  Any idea how to get rid of the video flicker? I don't see any settings in Creator. Do you know if the AVCHD output is interlaced or progressive?

My PC spec:
XP-SP3
AMD XP 2.8 processor (single)
2 gig memory
2 - 320 SATA drives
ATI radeon 3650, 512mb PCIE (latest ATI driver)
7 channel sound
Firewire-USB 2.1
No conflicts.


Randy

No one has any suggestions?

Randy

[grandpabruce]

No one has any suggestions?

Randy

I would try burning another DVD, from your spindle of Verbatim.  I would also try burning at a 6x speed, just to see if it makes a difference.

Also, in MyDVD, you can change from the default Interlaced setting, to Progressive.  Click on File/Project Settings, and you will see those choices.

[Jim_Hardin]

No one has any suggestions?

Randy

Fact of life. Any existing VOB file is 720 X 480 or less and nothing is going to make it better… If you don't have actual HD for a source you are spinning your wheels. You cannot render UP and gain quality. In most cases you actually lose.

Now your digital pics will look better (I am assuming they all exceed 720 X 480).

In MyDVD I would suggest you try – Tools – Options – Render, Software and see if plays better.

[ggrussell]

Since you don't have any hidef video footage, I would suggest using 720p instead. NEVER use pre-rendered 720X480 MPEG 2 files.  When you re-render to Hidef, they just look awful.

However if you have the original DV tapes, recapture to DV AVI files.  Yes, the get stretched too, but since they are less compressed than MPEG 2, the results are much better.

If you mix standard video with still images, there will be a huge difference in quality so I would try to avoid that. Perhaps a menu with two buttons. One for video and another for slideshow.

[RandyGR]

Thanks for all the suggestions! That will keep me busy for a while. I will experiment this weekend and try all your suggestions.

A few more comments on your comments:

* Yes, I do know that the SD video can't improve. My photo quality is excellent, 10MP resolution. That should render very good at 1080P. I have a SD slot on my TV and they look amazing when viewed that way at 1080P. Thats what I am looking for. Just wanting to add some SD footage to that. I will try the software rendering you suggest. I have a lot of photos shot at 16:9.
* My video was shot in 16:9 on Canon, so they don't get stretched. I have been making 16:9 SD videos thru Studio for several yesrs with good results. I will try both importing into AVI and 720 rendering. Now, where was that 720 selection located?
* I will look for the progressive setting for next project. Also try another disc and reduce burning speed. I also have another DVD burner that I will try.

Again, thanks. I guess I just have to elliminate one thing at a time.

Randy

[ggrussell]

* My video was shot in 16:9 on Canon, so they don't get stretched.

Yes, they absolutely do.  Technically 16:9 is still 720X480 using non-square pixels.  720P= 1280X720  and 1080P= 1920X1080.   That 720X480 has to be stretched (resized) to the new dimensions.  As for the 10MP still images, those will be reduced to the proper dimensions.  These are absolutes and ALL software adheres to these standards.

The only way your video is not resized if you have a hidef camcorder and even some of those can or will be resized.  My Canon HDV uses 1440x1080 non-square pixel recording.  If I decide to output to 720P or 1080P, it will be resized, too.

There is a LOT of things going on in the background to make the disc compliant so they will playback on most players.

Edited by ggrussell, 18 December 2008 - 08:22 PM.

[RandyGR]

Yes, they absolutely do.  Technically 16:9 is still 720X480 using non-square pixels.  720P= 1280X720  and 1080P= 1920X1080.   That 720X480 has to be stretched (resized) to the new dimensions.  As for the 10MP still images, those will be reduced to the proper dimensions.  These are absolutes and ALL software adheres to these standards.

The only way your video is not resized if you have a hidef camcorder and even some of those can or will be resized.  My Canon HDV uses 1440x1080 non-square pixel recording.  If I decide to output to 720P or 1080P, it will be resized, too.

There is a LOT of things going on in the background to make the disc compliant so they will playback on most players.

Thanks Digital Guru,

This process does look to be more involved than my previous projects and your advise is much appreciated. I do understand the conversions and resizing of the photos. But, they do look great when viewed at 1080p, thru my TV's SD card slot. Much better than my 720x480 DVD slideshows, of course. I am hoping to get close to that quality in my HD DVD projects in Creator.

I am a semi-pro photographer. I plan to put together a HD DVD slide show to showcase my work. I will play it in my home studio on my blueray and give copies to potential clients. Photo DVD slideshows are a good sell at weddings also. I want to offer HD to clients with bluerays. I also shoot and sell wedding videos, but not HD yet. My videos many times contain both video and photos.

A Canon HDV is exactly what I plan to purchase next year to go HD in video. Great camcorders.  Then I will go to actual blueray recording.

I plan to build myself another computer early next year, to handle the HD more efficient. My "real" job is IT manager.

Again, thanks. Keep the info coming!

Randy

[ggrussell]

If you're looking at HDV camcorders, I would go with JVC Everio HD6.  It uses the same format as the Canon HV series, but is full frame 1920X1080P.  The bitrate can be a bit higher depending on subject.  I would have liked to purchase it. Just not in my budget at the time and I got such a great deal on the Canon HV20.  But looking at recent pricing, looks like the HD6 is half what it was when I was shopping. LOL

I see they have released a whole new line: HD10,20,30 & 40. Guess they have to get rid of the old stock.

Edited by ggrussell, 19 December 2008 - 04:18 PM.

[RandyGR]

If you're looking at HDV camcorders, I would go with JVC Everio HD6.  It uses the same format as the Canon HV series, but is full frame 1920X1080P.  The bitrate can be a bit higher depending on subject.  I would have liked to purchase it. Just not in my budget at the time and I got such a great deal on the Canon HV20.  But looking at recent pricing, looks like the HD6 is half what it was when I was shopping. LOL

I see they have released a whole new line: HD10,20,30 & 40. Guess they have to get rid of the old stock.

I just happened to look at your signature line. I also still have a Sony 740 D8. Mine developed dead pizels out of warranty a few years ago and was too expensive to fix. Thats when i went to canon DV. Still keep it to play my old D8 and to transfer D8 to DVD for clients. My daughter had a FujiS7000. She now has Pentax DSLR, so she can "borrow" my lens and accessories. I am a Pentax man from way back. I almost purchased a Canon HV20 a few months ago, but decided to hold off. I favor the HV30 right now, but will look at the JVC you mention. It will be a few months until I actually decide.

By the way, we are almost neighbors, I am in KY.  I have been to your area many times traveling to Smokies. Thanks.

Randy

Edited by RandyGR, 20 December 2008 - 05:00 AM.

[RandyGR]

I have been testing all morning. I have tried all your suggestions above. Here are my results and conclusions:

* I started with freshly imported (good quality) DV video from my camcorder, with the Creator import feature and thru Studio (for comparison). All done on same PC. Imported video looked good from both.  Saved in AVI format.

* Put various 16:9 projects together thru both. Video only, photo only, combo of both. As mentioned above my video was shot 16:9 and my photos are 16:9.  All looked good. Used various standard DVD settings.

* Burned to Standard DVD with both softwares, various settings in Creator, hardware and software encoded. Good results with all.

* Burning to AVCHD in creator. Here is the problem. Regardless of resolution or any setting (I tried them all) I could not get rid of the flicker. It seems to be an AVCHD conversion problem. Again, I know the video won't improve, but it should not flicker. The photo conversion to 1080P was excellent, but still contained the same flicker, which ruined the whole slideshow. If the flicker was gone, the photo DVD would be excellent, only slightly under direct viewing quality of my photos (on my SD card), thru my 1080P Plasma.  

My conclusion is that the AVCHD conversion process is just flawed, at least for SD video and photos. I don't have HD video, so I can't speak here. But there is no reason that high res photos should not give good results. It's not related to hardware or media. Even though my system is not the newest, it had no problem with any process. Actual BlueRay recording should give better results, but I am not there yet. When I am, I will go back to Studio because its a more robust program.

But, its not a total loss. My final cost for Creator was $39, after rebate. I have replaced my old version of Nero with Creator 2009 and will use it for my normal CD-DVD copy and burn.  

I would like to thank all of you for your help and suggestions.  

Randy  

[Jim_Hardin]

Your conclusion is wrong.

Gary and I, as well as others do this all the time and don't have any problem.

I just did a 45 minute one yesterday for another thread and it worked no problems… In this one I used a DVD Recorder to record a VHS tape. I then imported the DVD as an mpeg.

Brought the mpeg into a AVCHD project in MyDVD and burned to disc. Now the Quality was not spectacular but considering this was a tape from 16 years ago, not bad…

One common step that you keep repeating… The ones you have trouble with you have preprocessed with another program.

Eliminate any processing with the other program and see what happens.

Edited by Jim_Hardin, 21 December 2008 - 03:51 AM.

[RandyGR]

Your conclusion is wrong.

Gary and I, as well as others do this all the time and don't have any problem.

I just did a 45 minute one yesterday for another thread and it worked no problems… In this one I used a DVD Recorder to record a VHS tape. I then imported the DVD as an mpeg.

Brought the mpeg into a AVCHD project in MyDVD and burned to disc. Now the Quality was not spectacular but considering this was a tape from 16 years ago, not bad…

One common step that you keep repeating… The ones you have trouble with you have preprocessed with another program.

Eliminate any processing with the other program and see what happens.

You misunderstood me. I am not using files processed with Studio, in Creator. The Creator video was imported-edited-processed and burned solely thru Creator software. Studio completly thru studio. I used the same camcorder and imported the same clip in both.  The photos are from a digital SLR and imported independently also.  I wish that was the reason, but it's not.

A previous poster said never to use mpeg movie, I did not try mpeg, I used AVI movie clip.

Try this: Use some good quality digital photo files. Produce a AVCHD directly from them. Play it on your blueray and let me know the results.


Randy.

Edited by RandyGR, 21 December 2008 - 02:41 PM.

[Jim_Hardin]

You misunderstood me. I am not using files processed with Studio, in Creator. The Creator video was imported-edited-processed and burned solely thru Creator software. Studio completly thru studio. I used the same camcorder and imported the same clip in both.  The photos are from a digital SLR and imported independently also.  I wish that was the reason, but it's not.

A previous poster said never to use mpeg movie, I did not try mpeg, I used AVI movie clip.

Try this: Use some good quality digital photo files. Produce a AVCHD directly from them. Play it on your blueray and let me know the results.


Randy.

OK, I did not read it that way, sorry!

Yes I have tried stills and videos many times and cannot replicate your results. I even did a double render of one in VW then MyDVD, nothing but good results…

I am running 2009 Ultimate with SP1 installed.

Gary has been running AVCHD from V10, 2009 Ultimate & with SP1 installed and has not seen this.

However I know you are not making this up and I do not have anything better to offer you…

[RandyGR]

OK, I did not read it that way, sorry!

Yes I have tried stills and videos many times and cannot replicate your results. I even did a double render of one in VW then MyDVD, nothing but good results…

I am running 2009 Ultimate with SP1 installed.

Gary has been running AVCHD from V10, 2009 Ultimate & with SP1 installed and has not seen this.

However I know you are not making this up and I do not have anything better to offer you…

Jim,

The only difference I can see is I don't have the ultimate, but that only adds blueray recording. Sure wish I could figure this out. It could be that the AVCHD burned disc, made in Creator 2009, have a compatablilty problem with my blueray player. I have a Panasonic BD-35. I don't have another to try.

Also, I discovered that Pinnacle has an update to Studio 12, that adds AVCHD recording (1080I, not 1080P). That previously was not availible. I am going to try that to see what results I can get.  I will let you know

Randy R.

Edited by RandyGR, 22 December 2008 - 07:45 AM.

[stnakamura]

Jim,

The only difference I can see is I don't have the ultimate, but that only adds blueray recording. Sure wish I could figure this out. It could be that the AVCHD burned disc, made in Creator 2009, have a compatablilty problem with my blueray player. I have a Panasonic BD-35. I don't have another to try.

Also, I discovered that Pinnacle has an update to Studio 12, that adds AVCHD recording (1080I, not 1080P). That previously was not availible. I am going to try that to see what results I can get.  I will let you know

Randy R.

Randy -

I have Creator 2009 and have had success creating/burning photo slideshows to AVCHD (1080i) on DVD discs and playing them on my Panny BD-30.  Just got a Buffalo BD burner and created/burned a 1080p slideshow to BD-RE and it played fine on my Panny BD-30.

As mentioned on other posts on this forum, my still photos have a "flicker" (1080i or 1080p).