13 replies to this topic

[konabrad]

My camcorder, like many, has internal stereo microphones as well as the capability to add external microphones. It can be set to record left and right channels separately, or combine audio inputs to a single channel. I'm going do some recording where there will be two external mics, Chl 1 and Chl 2 which I wish to keep on separete tracks for editing purposes. When I capture the recording and add it to my VideoWave project, will the native audio appear as two tracks or will they be combined on one track? I've never seen more than one track when I open the native audio track.

[myguggi]

My camcorder, like many, has internal stereo microphones as well as the capability to add external microphones. It can be set to record left and right channels separately, or combine audio inputs to a single channel. I'm going do some recording where there will be two external mics, Chl 1 and Chl 2 which I wish to keep on separete tracks for editing purposes. When I capture the recording and add it to my VideoWave project, will the native audio appear as two tracks or will they be combined on one track? I've never seen more than one track when I open the native audio track.

There is only one native audio track.
When you play video you must be able to select which audio channel to play. Perhaps you could capture the video twice, one for Chl 1 and once for Chl 2. You cold then extract the audio for each channel and add each channel to one of the other audio tracks. You would mute the native track of course.

[konabrad]

Hi Walt

I'm going to play around as you suggested. What seems odd is that if you recorded (video) a concert in stereo, you should be able to preserve the stereo effect when you eventually put it to DVD. I know that you can preserve the stereo effect with audio recordings to CD (no native audio).

Thanks,
Brad

[myguggi]

Hi Walt

I'm going to play around as you suggested. What seems odd is that if you recorded (video) a concert in stereo, you should be able to preserve the stereo effect when you eventually put it to DVD. I know that you can preserve the stereo effect with audio recordings to CD (no native audio).

Thanks,
Brad

If your native audio is in stereo its preserved when you put it on DVD.

[Jim_Hardin]

Brad: I think you are letting the ‘terms’ confuse the situation.

You have a Native Audio Track in your video. There is only One Native Audio Track. You can see it peeking out at the lower left in my picture.

If you double click it in VW it brings up the Audio Editor. You can see from the unequal meter readings that the Native Track is stereo…


Of course like Walt said, this assumes it was actually captured in Stereo. But if you want to tinker with each channel you will have to export it – tinker in Sound Editor – add it back as a new Track – and mute the Native Track.

If you have another sound editor of course you can use that too.

You question is not too clear, if you want better specifics you have to layout the specifics of what you need to do.

Edited by Jim_Hardin, 03 August 2009 - 03:29 AM.

[konabrad]

Hi Jim,

Here's the scenario; I want to video tape a lecture where there is a moderator at the podium speaking to an audience. The moderator has a microphone which is connected to Channel 1 (left channel) of the camcorder. The audience has access to a wireless mic that can be passed around. The receiver for this mic is connected to Channel 2 (right channel) of the camcorder. From time to time the moderator will take and answer questions from the audience, and the wireless mic will be handed to that person. As camera operator, I can hear (headphones) the moderator in one ear and the audience in the other (plus some mix between the two). However, while recording, I have limited control of the mix level, volume and muting capability.
Specifically, when there is no one using the wireless mic, it is still picking up extranous sounds which I don't want to have in the recording. So, the plan was to first add the raw clip to VideoWave and adjust the volume or mute on one channel periodically as needed while the clip played.
This brings us to where we are now. Yes, I can see the independent left and right channel volume bars in Audio Editor, but only one waveform, which I assume is a mix of both channels. The volume control slider adjusts both channels simultaneously, whereas I need them to be independent. I also noted that unlike Sound Editor, the audio level can not be adjusted up and down periodically at various points in the clip playback.
So, looks like Native Audio won't work for what I want to do. Using you suggestion, I open Sound Editor but could not open a video file (with native audio attached) as iit probably is the wrong file extension. I could however, open an audio file which has the correct file extension. This has all the capability I need, if I could use it with the audio in a video file. If I could edit and save my two channels, and add it back to an audio track in VideoWave, then I am faced with trying to sync the dialog with the lips. Another challenge.

Time to take a breath!

[Jim_Hardin]

Yes that is what I described using brevity  

The Audio can’t be done within VW! You have to extract it.

Then you will use some Audio program to separate the 2 tracks and output them independently as Stereo wave files. – you want them stereo unless you want the audio bouncing between speakers in the next step. (although that could be what you want too)

My thinking is that you want to do all this separation before you edit.

Then go into VW and mute the Native track and add your new “Audio Tracks” to the Narration and Sfx Tracks.

Look at my picture. I muted the Native (red ball) and put Mic 1 and Mic 2 on different tracks.

Then I start the edit making Splits where I want the audio changed. Deleting the Audio as needed.



From left to right this represents:

The Speaker mike –

A segment of the audience mic –

A discussion between the 2 of them –

And the Speaker mic.

The only flaw in this cunning plan is the automatic fade-in/out that VW puts in… It makes some Audio ‘bumps’ at the transition points.

Maybe someone better versed in playing with Audio will jump in here and help out???

Don’t do the whole thing to start with!!! Make copies and try some things and even burn some test samples to RW to see what they look like in the real world.

[konabrad]

Thank you for your efforts with this. I'm better understanding what can and can not be done within the software. But, there most always is a work-around of some kind. Before I video the actual  lecture, I'm going to do some experiments and try your suggestions. I'll post the results.

Thanks again, Brad

[konabrad]

I've discovered a few more things by experimentation.

While looking at the Native Audio waveform, both the left and right channel bar graphs are displayed. But the waveform itself is of the left channel only, not of the stereo effect of the left and right channel. This is really of no consequence; just information.

I tried another A/V editor and had the same experience. i.e.; left and right channels could not be separated. Left and right channels are not left and right tracks. If they were, I believe the tracks would be separate files. It seems that recording audio (stereo) to separate tracks is not a function of all camcorders, including some of the profeesional ones.

I did find half a solution. For a test, I used a separate digital audio recorder (Zoom H4n) where I configured the left and right mics so they were inputted (is this a word) to the video camera and the audio recorder simultaneously. The audio recorder was configured in multi-track recording which put the left and right channels on separate tracks and audio files. Then as Jim suggested, I added the video clip (with native audio) to VW, together with the two separate audio channels to the NAR and SFX tracks. Finally, I muted the native audio. The other half of the solution I haven't resolved is how to synchronize the moving lips of the speaker on the video, with the related voice on the audio tracks. Because you can't see the native audio waveform and the other audio waveforms simultaneous , you can't get a reference to be able to line them up.

I think I have taken this beyound the scope of what this software was designed to do. Thanks again Jim and Walt for your help.

Brad

[Jim_Hardin]

Yes it is beyond this softwares goals and I do not believe separate audio tracks is part of the majority of video formats. – there is a provision within the DVD Movie Standards for that (hence English, French, Spanish, etc. audio options).

I did find one camcorder in the Canon line that allows for this. The start at $3,999, not what most of us are pressing Record on

I have given you about the only workaround I can think of.

2009 includes Sound Soap as a extra… I haven’t used it much but it has more capabilities than Roxio’s Sound Editor…

So if you have these separate recordings and extract the Native Audio could you match up all 3 in Sound Soap??? Do what you need and delete the rest?

[konabrad]

I'm back with an update.

I learned the trick to syncronizing audio and video when each is recorded from different sources. My objective was to add a voice track (other than native audio) to my project, but the voice had to be in sync with the lips of the speaker. First, the video segment was added to my project on the timeline. Then the Native Audio track was selected so it displayed below the video track. Next, I added the "Narative Audio Track" and dragged in my voice segment recorded on a differed recorder. This track now lays below the native audio track but not yet in sync. I discovered a button I hadn't used before called "Edit Volume Envelope for Audio Objects". Poking this causes the audio tracks to display their wave forms. Now by dragging the narative track back and forth, I can line it up with the native audio track. (If you play the segment, their may be some echo due to the tracks not being 100% aligned). Now mute the native audio track and wal'la. Takes a little trial and error to align the tracks, but the "magnifier" option helps. Solved my problem!

[myguggi]

I'm back with an update.

I learned the trick to syncronizing audio and video when each is recorded from different sources. My objective was to add a voice track (other than native audio) to my project, but the voice had to be in sync with the lips of the speaker. First, the video segment was added to my project on the timeline. Then the Native Audio track was selected so it displayed below the video track. Next, I added the "Narative Audio Track" and dragged in my voice segment recorded on a differed recorder. This track now lays below the native audio track but not yet in sync. I discovered a button I hadn't used before called "Edit Volume Envelope for Audio Objects". Poking this causes the audio tracks to display their wave forms. Now by dragging the narative track back and forth, I can line it up with the native audio track. (If you play the segment, their may be some echo due to the tracks not being 100% aligned). Now mute the native audio track and wal'la. Takes a little trial and error to align the tracks, but the "magnifier" option helps. Solved my problem!

It's too bad that you didn't explain clearly that this is what you were trying to do . Someone here would surely have given you that method right away.

[konabrad]

The suggestions from you and Jim got me really close. The button, "Edit Volume....." was the key. It switches the audio tracks to display the audio waveforms simultaneously, one below the other. I found it by poking around. Nothing in the User Guide or Knowlege Base that I could find that describes this button.

Thanks again for your help.

[sknis]

You mean something like this?

Edited by sknis, 28 August 2009 - 01:38 PM.