11 replies to this topic

[Geir R]

Anyone tried to encode DVDs with Popcorn 4 and the elgato turbo h264 HD and compared the results to a Handbrake encode? The software that comes with the elgato delivers questionable quality files compared to Handbrake. But if Popcorn 4, utilizing the turbo h264 HD, can produce files that are comparable to Handbrake I'd buy it.

Sincerely
Geir R
Oslo
Norway

[tsantee]

Just to help whomever has the ability to check this, what resolution do you want the result to be? Do you want full resolution or something smaller such as for iPod? Also, this may be a case where you need to buy Popcorn 4 and try it. If purchased directly as a download from Roxio they have a 30-day refund policy if you decide you don't want it. (Be sure to confirm that in case I'm mistaken).

Edited by tsantee, 14 October 2009 - 06:19 AM.

[Geir R]

I want full resolution, as I am archiving my DVDs at 2 resolutions. One specifically for TV/Projector and one for portables. The smaller size does not demand the same quality from the encoder as the full resolution TV version.

According to this there is no refund if you have actually tried the software: "Save to the extent provided for in any applicable License Terms, your rights of return and/or to a refund under these Conditions and any applicable Returns Policy do not apply in the event that you open the Software shrink-wrap and/or break the license seal and/or use the Software."
How can I find out if the quality of the encoded files is worth 50 dollars if I am not allowed to try it?

[tsantee]

I want full resolution, as I am archiving my DVDs at 2 resolutions. One specifically for TV/Projector and one for portables. The smaller size does not demand the same quality from the encoder as the full resolution TV version.

According to this there is no refund if you have actually tried the software: "Save to the extent provided for in any applicable License Terms, your rights of return and/or to a refund under these Conditions and any applicable Returns Policy do not apply in the event that you open the Software shrink-wrap and/or break the license seal and/or use the Software."
How can I find out if the quality of the encoded files is worth 50 dollars if I am not allowed to try it?

Check the policy for a Roxio Web site purchase as a software download. The refund should be available for purchases made in this manner but it never is available for purchases of the boxed product. There is no shrink-wrap and license seal with a downloaded file. Since it is just announced I don't know if a download version is available in Norway as yet.

When I last purchased a Roxio download the refund policy was described during the ordering process.

[Geir R]

Well I bought Popcorn 4, but I still can't see how I would be able to convert a DVD to h264 while preserving the DD 5.1 soundtrack. I want to keep the DVD resolution and DD 5.1 sound, but I want to compress the video using h264. As far as I can see the pass through option for sound is disabled.

[tsantee]

Well I bought Popcorn 4, but I still can't see how I would be able to convert a DVD to h264 while preserving the DD 5.1 soundtrack. I want to keep the DVD resolution and DD 5.1 sound, but I want to compress the video using h264. As far as I can see the pass through option for sound is disabled.

I don't have a TurboHD to check this, but according to ElGato's site states "When exporting to Apple TV format, for sources that contain Dolby Digital AC-3 audio, the digital audio will be passed through into the resulting file." As I understand it there is both the AC-3 audio and the AAC audio in the resulting file. They don't mention retention of AC-3 with any other conversion settings. It may be that Popcorn 4 doesn't support that with the Apple TV setting when using a TurboHD even though the TurboHD can do that with its own application. Until I get my TurboHD I won't know except for what you and other users tell me. Popcorn 4 cannot do it on its own and it may be that the TurboHD can only do it when Apple TV is selected as the conversion option.

[Geir R]

The Turbo 264 HD is just a hardware video encoder isn't it. Why should it be impossible to pass the digital audio straight through to the resulting h264 file?

Having tried the Apple TV preset in elgato's software I am unsure wether it retains 5.1 sound. When playing the file back in VLC and choosing stream info I see 2 audio streams. One says AC3 2 channels and the other AAC 2 channels. Is it just not identifying the number of channels correctly?

Here is what I want.
Custom setting
Size->Original (same as source)
Encoding->H264 using the TurboHD
Sound->Original (same as source)
I would also like to be able to choose one or two subtitle tracks to include.
(all these options can be found in Nero Recode for instance, and "The Nero Digital™ codec is MPEG-4-compliant. These files can be played in Nero ShowTime and in other common programs.")

I am currently converting the same DVD using the elgato software, Popcorn 4, and Handbrake.
Pretty sure P4 is better than elgato's own software, which is pretty bad. But unless the results with Popcorn 4 are equal to or better than Handbrake I am going to ask for a refund. I don't want to pay 50 dollars for software that is worse (albeit a little faster) than free software. Especially since Nero gives me what I want (sans the turboHD option).

Edited by Geir R, 16 October 2009 - 01:35 AM.

[Geir R]

Ok, here it is, the proof of the pudding.
On the following link I have posted 11 screen grabs (these are from 2 movies that I own, my own home made DVDs are not of a quality that would allow quality comparisons of the compression algorithms in any of these applications, they are cropped to avoid any legal issues).
http://gallery.me.com/geir.rosset#100043
If any of you can tell me which ones were done with elgato's own software, which ones are Popcorn 4 and which ones are Handbrake I'll consider keeping Popcorn. Otherwise I'd say I rate the three applications like this (given that you already own the Turbo264HD and given that you don't need any of the other functions of Popcorn (I don't))..

1) Elgato (Fast but unsure of the AC3 pass through)
2) Handbrake (slow but better picture quality and AC3 pass through option regardless of codec)
3) PC4 (another 50 dollars on top of the price of the Turbo264HD but with no benefits in speed (I believe it is slower although I haven't timed it) nor picture quality over the software that comes with the Turbo264HD, also not sure about the AC3 pass through).

Edited by Geir R, 17 October 2009 - 02:40 AM.

[iBog]

Geir,

I'm pretty sure Elgato's Turbo 264 HD software supports AC3.

Your comment about AC3 2ch I think is correct as your receiver is responsible for decoding.  I'll look at some of my encodes to confirm.  By the way, I use Media Info to inspect details about the video and audio streams.

You've tried Nero Recode?

[Geir R]

Elgato say they support 5.1 for Apple TV or custom profiles, I have been unable to confirm.

I have requested a refund for Popcorn 4. My reasons have been stated here.

I tried Nero Recode a while back, can't remember the version number. Even back then it supported subtitles and dolby digital. Too bad it doesn't support the Turbo 264 HD...

I'll stick to Elgato's own software and Handbrake until someone makes something that is better.

So for any Roxio techs reading this.
To be worth the extra 50 dollars for an owner of the Turbo HD Popcorn 4 needs:
Full pass through of DD 5.1 regardless of video codec. Sound and picture should be possible to keep separate.
Support for subtitles.
Better encoding quality than what already ships with the Turbo HD (my screen captures show that now that is not the case).

[Kevin Cossaboon]

...
So for any Roxio techs reading this.
To be worth the extra 50 dollars for an owner of the Turbo HD Popcorn 4 needs:
Full pass through of DD 5.1 regardless of video codec. Sound and picture should be possible to keep separate.
Support for subtitles.
Better encoding quality than what already ships with the Turbo HD (my screen captures show that now that is not the case).

I second this, I can not believe the limited support for 5.1 Audio. For corporations to compete with open source, they should be doing it fast and BETTER.

[tsantee]

I second this, I can not believe the limited support for 5.1 Audio. For corporations to compete with open source, they should be doing it fast and BETTER.

I have done some checking with Popcorn 4 and the TurboHD. Popcorn does not retain Dolby audio in any setting when encoding to other formats. ElGato's TurboHD application creates two audio streams when encoding for AppleTV from sources that have AC3 audio. One stream is AAC and the other is AC3. The playback device needs to have some option to select the desired audio track for playback. I understand that Roxio is looking into the AC3 passthrough option with Popcorn 4 but I don't know if that will be added in the future.