15 replies to this topic

[binkydoestoast]

I just got Toast 7.02 about 10 days ago, to use with a new EyeTV 250 unit. I am currently recording items in EyeDVD as extended DVD (180) format, and burning 2 or 3 at a time to DVD-R. Typically between 2:20 and 2:40 total time of 3 hour DVD capacity for this format.

Up until last night, my typical times were anywhere from 5-15 minutes for multiplexing, and 15-30 minutes for the burn. But after doing 2 DVDs last night without problems, I started another before bed. Came down this morning and the burn was only half done.

I canceled this burn, tried another with different clips. Multiplexing was going absurdly slow, so I canceled again, restarted my Mac. Have done several more tests, having no better luck. I currently am in the "middle" of a burn of 2:28 worth of video. The multiplex phase took a good hour and a half; the burn has been going on for 2+ hours now and is half done. Obviously not a situation I can live with.

I am using Toast defaults; Automatic encoding, DVD video, on a Dual 2.0GHz G5 with 2.5 GB RAM, using the internal Pioneer DVD-RW DVR-109. Boot drive has 50 GB free, second internal where video stored has 130 GB.

Activity Monitor is showing Toast fluctuating between 95 and 105% of CPU time.

I'm a 20+ year expert Mac user, but not a video burning expert by any means, so maybe I'm missing something obvious. But I can't make anything from the symptoms and routine troubleshooting has been no help, so I'd welcome any suggestions.

[richard_briscoe]

binkydoestoast, on Jun 16 2006, 01:41 PM, said:

I just got Toast 7.02 about 10 days ago, to use with a new EyeTV 250 unit. I am currently recording items in EyeDVD as extended DVD (180) format, and burning 2 or 3 at a time to DVD-R. Typically between 2:20 and 2:40 total time of 3 hour DVD capacity for this format.

Up until last night, my typical times were anywhere from 5-15 minutes for multiplexing, and 15-30 minutes for the burn. But after doing 2 DVDs last night without problems, I started another before bed. Came down this morning and the burn was only half done.

I canceled this burn, tried another with different clips. Multiplexing was going absurdly slow, so I canceled again, restarted my Mac. Have done several more tests, having no better luck. I currently am in the "middle" of a burn of 2:28 worth of video. The multiplex phase took a good hour and a half; the burn has been going on for 2+ hours now and is half done. Obviously not a situation I can live with.

I am using Toast defaults; Automatic encoding, DVD video, on a Dual 2.0GHz G5 with 2.5 GB RAM, using the internal Pioneer DVD-RW DVR-109. Boot drive has 50 GB free, second internal where video stored has 130 GB.

Activity Monitor is showing Toast fluctuating between 95 and 105% of CPU time.

I'm a 20+ year expert Mac user, but not a video burning expert by any means, so maybe I'm missing something obvious. But I can't make anything from the symptoms and routine troubleshooting has been no help, so I'd welcome any suggestions.

Hi John,

I am not sure that I have the answer to why, but things eventually got better with my situation. Some things I did were to start by trashing the Toast preferences, and then everything and doing a fresh installation of toast. I spoke with the people at Pioneer about the drive because I had previously had problem with the drive. This one is actually a replacement DVR-109. My Mac is presently a Dual 1.8 GHz G4 with 1 or 1 1/2 GB of RAM depending upon whether I have borrowed a DIMM for another machine at the time. I do not remember which CPU I had installed when I originally posted. It may have been a 1.33 GHz single processor. Either way my hardware is not as powerful as yours.

I still do not know what exactly I did, but the problem went away eventually. I have come to suspect that it may have been a media related issue, but I can not provide any proof of this. (There is a lot of very poor quality media being sold by some very big names, among others.) My speculation is that Toast looks to the media in some way during the multiplexing. I suppose that it would not hurt to clear out all caches on the Mac either using Yasu, Cocktail or one of the other similar utilities and then to run DW and any other utilities you may have (such as TTL Pro)...I did simply because I figured it could not hurt and there might be something somewhere that was contributing to the problem.

I would also suggest trying another burning application to see if the problem appears with it as well. I have NTI Dragon Burn which occasionally handles something that Toast chokes on. It is shareware, but I do not recall if it has a demo version or not. There also are YuBurn and ImageBurner which you can try to see if the problem persists.

You might double check the firmware on the DVR-109 as well. Mine was up-to-date at the time of my problem, but I seem to recall that part of the description on the firmware update file was to deal with some media issues. I had to drag my DVR-109 out and put it in a Windows box to flash the firmware. I think that the flashing utility (the name escapes me at the moment) can handle the 109 at this time, but you might double check over at www.XLR8yourMac.com If you have access to a Windows box that you can install your 109 in as an internal drive it updated very easily in Win XP.

Just what media are you using? Make sure that your EyeTV is up-to date as well. Are you using Tiger? Which version. At the present time I am using 10.4.6 without any particular problem other than some of the bad media that I am trying to get arid of...I need to call in to the manufacturer next week and get an RMA. I don't want to bash anybody, but PM again me if you want to talk media brands. With the better media that I am using at the present time things go pretty well, including DL burns.

I hope this may be of some use to you. Let me know how things progress.

Cheers,

Richard

[binkydoestoast]

Richard,

Thank you for all of the detailed information. I will work my way though some of these things as I can (currently 5 hours into a burn that looks to have about an hour to go, so the feedback won't be instantaneous    ), and I'll post back here as I learn more.

To answer a few of the details I omitted:

Media: working my way through a 50 disc spindle of Verbatim 8x DVD-R. I've used about 10 before for backup purposes burning from Backup or Disk Utility, all with good rates, and about 12 from Toast with good speed prior to this cropping up.

OS: Tiger 10.4.6

EyeTV: 2.2.1, current according to El Gato's site.

Firmware: A912 in System Profiler, I'll dig and see if that seems current. Updating doesn't sound fun, my only PC has Win2K and I'd hate to have to move the drive, but I guess if things point that way I'll try.

I'll try tossing preferences first, and also look at another burning tool for tests. I haven't messed with this much as I say, but I guess I can just drag the .mpg file out of the package that EyeTV creates and burn it as I like. Will also do some cache blasting and permission repair routines.

I noticed the speculation in your original post about the possibility of the multiplexing stage somehow checking the media. I had leaned toward the idea that the slowness during both multiplexing and burning was indicative of a Toast software issue, but I certainly can't rule out something along those lines. I'd be curious to hear from anyone who knows more about that process (and also whether the CPU loads I see Toast using seem in the normal range.)

Thanks again for your help. I'll be back...

- John

[richard_briscoe]

John,

Take a loook at this post by tsantee where he seems to think that there may be an issue with the source file causing a burn to stall part way through.

I am sorry to have given you a "shotgun" approach to this problem, but I simply do not know the specific cause of the problem or its solution. I am just glad that my problem seems to be gone for the time being.

I will try to remember the name of the firmware updater and post back.

"Good Hunting!"

Richard

[binkydoestoast]

No luck so far. Full Toast reinstall (deleted Prefs and plist file along with application), ran cache cleanups and all daily/weekly/monthly scripts, repaired permissions. Same stuff, just finished a 6+ hour burn. Did a test DVD data burn using Disk Utility, ripped through it. Have downloaded the trial version of DragonBurn to try to compare (not sure yet if that also multiplexes or if I need to do that in a separate step?), but will try that and or iDVD and if it works OK as I suspect will contact Roxio looking for a fix or a refund.

- John

[richard_briscoe]

The utility I was trying to remember is DVR_Flash.

I suppose that it would not hurt to clean out the preferences and such in EyeTV. Here is a copy of a reference sent to me by El Gato Support some time ago (pre-EyeTV 2.x). I have an EyeTV 200 rather than the newer EyeTV 250 you have, but I think that things may be pretty much the same in terms of the software.

"Here is an exhaustive lists of tests and changes that usually get
EyeTV 200 working for users.

(Permissions Check)

Try to Repair Disk Permissions using the Disk Utility (in the
Utilities folder).

(FireWire Bus)

Try EyeTV on all of your other FireWire ports, with another FireWire
cable, and try it with other FireWire devices detached.  There might
be a fault with the FireWire connection, or some sort of conflict
with another device.  If you're using a portable, then also try it
while plugged into a wall outlet, instead of using battery power.
This will ensure that EyeTV is getting enough power over the
FireWire. If you're using a FireWire hub, make sure that it's
self-powered by an AC adaptor.

(Refresh EyeTV Helper)

You can also remove and reinstall a small program called EyeTV
Helper, which is involved in detecting EyeTV on the FireWire bus.  Do
a search for that program.  Then, start the Process Viewer (or the
Activity Monitor in 10.3), and find EyeTV Helper.  Quit it.  Then,
erase EyeTV Helper from your hard drive.  Start EyeTV and it will be
reinstalled.

(EyeTV Preferences)

You should also try to erase the four EyeTV Preference files,
starting with com.elgato.  They can be found in the following
locations:

In /Library/Preferences/

-com.elgato.eyetv.devices.plist

-com.elgato.eyetv.plist

-com.elgato.eyetv.world.plist

In /Users/<yourname>/Library/Preferences/

-com.elgato.eyetv.plist

After you erase them and restart EyeTV, then you'll have to re Auto
Tune via the Setup Assistant.

(Mac OS X User Issues)

You can also try a new admin user account, and see if that helps.

(PRAM/NVRAM)

Finally, you can perform two system adjustments that help some
mysterious problems:

Try to reset your PRAM:

1. Shut down the computer.
2. Locate the following keys on the keyboard: Command, Option, P, and
R. You will need to hold these keys down simultaneously in step 4.
3. Press the power button to turn the computer on. You will hear the
computer's startup sound.
4. Press and hold the Command-Option-P-R keys. You must press this
key combination before the gray screen appears.
5. Hold the keys down until the computer restarts and you hear the
startup sound for the second time.
6. Release the keys.

Also reset the NVRAM:

First, shut down your computer. Then boot up, and press and hold the
Command-Option-O-F keys. You must press this key combination before
the gray screen appears.

Then, do the following

1. At the Open Firmware prompt, type: reset-nvram
2. Press Return.
3. At the Open Firmware prompt, type: reset-all
4. Press Return.
5. If your computer does not automatically restart, then type: mac-boot

Both of the above are from the AppleCare Knowledge Base, and can help
when things are amiss.

If the above steps don't help, then we'll troubleshoot further.
Thank you for your patience while we work to solve this issue.

Customer Support
Elgato Systems LLC"

I hope that you will be able to get things sorted out. The integration of EyeTV and Toast 7 is nice...when things work right.

Good Luck

[binkydoestoast]

Richard and any readers,

Still no real luck. I have had a few burns go OK, but no apparent rhyme or reason. Files that are going to go slow go slow. As all files are from EyeTV, and all handled exactly the same (recorded, trimmed, choose Toast option, and use defaults), there does not seem to be any reasonable explanation for the behavior. My G5 runs great otherwise, iDVD burns fast, DiskUtility burns fast, Toast burns fast once in a while but mostly is pathetically slow.

I have had a number of 5-6 hour burns; last night, I had a single DVD that took over 4 hours to multiplex, and over 11 hours to complete. This is absolutely ridiculous.

I guess Roxio does not read these boards, so at this point I'll try to open up a support ticket with them and see what transpires. I think I clearly need a refund if they can't address this; I'm willing to test whatever is needed, but not willing to put up with this nonsense.

Thanks again for all your attempts to help, they are appreciated.

- John

[binkydoestoast]

I may have tracked down the test case I need. Burned a disc this afternoon with two files (World Cup matches) recorded by EyeTV the same day, same settings. Both files had been edited in EyeTV to cut commercials, neither had any chapter markers left; like every other file I've been doing, they should for all practical purposes be identical.

In this case, the difference between the two files was very dramatic, and I was able to clearly see the process change from one file to the next. The second file was actually slightly longer than the first, so the change happened with the Toast progress bar at slightly under 50% for multiplexing and burning.

Times are not exact but close enough:
Multiplex for the first file was about 80 minutes, for the second one 3 minutes.
Burn for the first file was about 140 minutes, the second took about 6 minutes.

I now need to waste a few disks and confirm that the files show the same pattern burned separately, in reverse order, etc. I currently believe they will continue to behave the same based on previous observations, but I'll post here for others when I have more data.

I have opened a ticket with Roxio, so I'll see what they say, but it appears to be an issue between them and the EyeTV files, and I should now hopefully be able to provide samples as needed to get this fixed.

[John at Roxio]

Well judging by the fact that you can reproduce the problem with a specific file, and it works fine with another file, I would suspect the problem is the source files.  I dont know what the difference would be between the 2 files you are working with if they came from the same source.  If you get the details of the 2 video files do they have the same properties (frames per sec, bitrate, resolution)?  
Rather then wasting discs, choose from the file menu to save as a disc image.  It goes through the same process as burning a disc would, but instead of writing to blank media, it just creates an exact image of what would be written on the media.

[binkydoestoast]

Thanks for the input. I opened a ticket with El Gato yesterday and got the save image suggestion from them, and that has helped with testing. While this is ongoing, I have to say this appears to me to be a problem with the EyeTV software, although one they say has not come up before.

All files should have identical properties; in fact, they were all scheduled at the same time, probably about 30 at once (basically all World Cup broadcasts for the week.) I'm not making any changes to settings, and can't find any predictor of which files will work and which will fail. But at least now I can clearly recognize that it is specific files.

I have found a couple things from tests they suggested so far:

* Making a duplicate of the entire clip using Save As Recording from inside the EyeTV editor does not make a difference, the new file is still problematic.

* Exporting as MPEG Program Stream from EyeTV DOES fix the problem.

Waiting to hear back, but to me it looks like time to provide them with sample files, since the problem files are as created by their application and editor, and some are OK and some aren't.

At this time I'd have to say that the problem does not appear to be with Toast, though it may be revealing a problem in Toast processing of files. ALL files to date have burned OK, though a single disc burn has taken up to 11 hours with 3 bad files.

Thanks,

- John

[John at Roxio]

Nice.  I personally know a couple of the guys at ElGato and my opinion of the company is that they are top notch.  Let me know what you end up finding out.

[richard_briscoe]

John,

I can only add my agreement that my dealings with ElGato have been favorable. If they can identify a problem I am sure they will address it. They put out periodic updates which take care of any bugs and occasionally add some features. Having used EyeTV 1.x I saw progress all along the way, and there are a number of "nice to have" changes in 2.x.

I hope that they will sort out your issue soon so that you can get on with the business of enjoying the capability that their product brings. I know that I have enjoyed using mine.

Once you start burning a bunch of DVDs you may want to look into a cataloging program. I have used DVDpedia which is a separate application in their series of 'pedias' which you can purchase individually or 'bundled'. Some people seem to like Delicious Library because it integrates the functions. I like the DVDpedia because it searches more web sites for information. They have recently released a new version of DVDpedia which I need to buy. There are some others, but these seem to be the most commonly used ones.

Richard

Edited by richard_briscoe, 21 June 2006 - 02:03 PM.

[reedx032]

Just Chiming In...

I just bought an EyeTV 250 and am experiencing the same issue with slow multiplexing and burning of edited eyetv programs in toast.

I have noticed that if I don't edit the programs at all, the problem does not occur, and if I edit the program simply by removing clips at the beginning and/or end of the program, the problem does not occur.

But so far every time I've tried to cut out all commercials and then burn, the burning has been incredibly slow.

If you haven't heard a specific fix from elgato yet, I may open up a support ticket with them as well.

Thanks for the tip on burning the exported streams rather than just clicking the toast button... that works around the problem for me as well....

[binkydoestoast]

reedx032, on Sep 3 2006, 09:50 PM, said:

If you haven't heard a specific fix from elgato yet, I may open up a support ticket with them as well.

Hi Reed,

I have not gotten any more of a fix than the exporting method, though I'm glad to hear someone else can confirm this behavior. I also haven't pressed on this for the last couple of months. While having to export every clip before burning is a bit of an annoyance, it is nothing compared to trying to use the burn from EyeTV only to encounter a multiplex that can take hours to complete.

I had a number of exchanges with Nick at El Gato concernign this issue. Along with helping me test the problem and finding this export workaround, he asked what settings I use in the EyeTV Preferences > Devices, and if different encoding settings made a difference. I told him I have experienced the problem with both Long Play and Extended Play DVD settings, but I didn't believe I had burned anything off of Standard Play, and that is still the case, I normally stick to Long Play mode. What is your experience in this area? I also updated to EyeTV 2.3 software some weeks ago, but have not even tried to test this issue since then given that there was no suggestion of any fix in this area.

I opened a ticket with Roxio as well as El Gato, though the first several replies were just boilerplate with no real information or questions. Interestingly enough, I just logged in to that ticket to refresh myself on the last message, and found that 2 weeks ago they posted a reply expressing a willingness to have an engineer look at a small sample file if I can attach on to the ticket; I either didn't get a e-mail notification of this update or else my spam filter ate it. So I will try to figure out how small a sample can readily show the problem and upload it for their examination, which may help figure this out.

- John

[reedx032]

I talked to someone at ElGato, and they are blaming Toast for not properly handling eyetv content, and saying there is a fix in the works (heard that before)... So I'm still doing the export workaround.

I always use standard play mode, and was observing the problem that way.  I haven't tested this in a while though, since I don't have all night to sit and wait....

[MildWildBill]

I am having the same problem with Toast 7 slowing to a crawl while multiplexing and burning some EyeTV files. (PB G4 1.33 using all up-to-date software; both internal DVD and external Sony USB2 DVD burners.) The export solution seems to work. It is worth the trouble to get reasonalble performance. This is what I had to do with Toast 6 anyway.