[skylinepro]

I use Jam 6.0.3 on a Mac G4 with 10.4.6 OS. Have Pioneer DVR-111 (Superdrive) DVD burner installed. When I click "ABORT" during a burn, the computer freezes. I have to do a hard reboot. Once rebooted, the Superdrive no longer functions. Both the System Profiler and both Toast and Jam recognize it's existence, but media can no longer be read or written, not even in finder. I would have thought this to be a fluke, however this same exact condition has happened twice in one month! The only solution I have found is to order a new drive. I am now waiting for my THIRD drive to arrive. Pioneer says the driver software is corrupt and to unplug the ribbon cable, restart and replug and start again. Still doesn't work. Pioneer then said contact Roxio support. After 20 minutes hold time at Roxio, I gave up and ordered my THIRD DVD WRITER. WHAT EVER YOU DO, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER CLICK THE ABORT BUTTON!!!!!

[John at Roxio]

While I understand your frustration, I have to disagree. I have used abort since early versions of this Toast and Jam on many, many different burners and have never once had it break a burner. It simply tells the burner to quit writing. If that causes the burner to break, I would go ahead and get a different brand of recorder. Thats like your car falling apart when you hit the breaks.

[skylinepro]

frenchtoastwithjam, on Jun 29 2006, 06:32 PM, said:

While I understand your frustration, I have to disagree. I have used abort since early versions of this Toast and Jam on many, many different burners and have never once had it break a burner. It simply tells the burner to quit writing. If that causes the burner to break, I would go ahead and get a different brand of recorder. Thats like your car falling apart when you hit the breaks.

Disagree all you like, but unless you can offer a solution, you have proved nothing. I would LOVE to change drives. No other drive manufacturer will certify its product in a Mac. Apple won't let it. I would love to install a Plextor, but Plextor won't guarantee it will work with Jam. I have taken the Pioneer drives that were made defective by the Jam abort problem and installed them in other Macs. THEY DON'T WORK THERE EITHER - EXPLAIN THAT! Two identical pieces of hardware were rendered useless by the same action initiated from Jam software, those are the facts. Please recommend an actual solution like the model number of a recommended replacement drive rather than assuming I'm stupid.

This post has been edited by skylinepro: 29 June 2006 - 06:56 PM

[freshburn]

Software can not break the drive. If your drive stops working, you have a problem some where else. Jam is not the problem.

[skylinepro]

freshburn, on Jun 29 2006, 07:06 PM, said:

Software can not break the drive. If your drive stops working, you have a problem some where else. Jam is not the problem.

Software is used to update the firmware or P-RAM on hardware devices like DVD writers all the time. Software can modify hardware's behavior. If a device's firmware is corrupted, the device ceases to function. Please don't blow smoke up my tuchas.

If you are so sure you are right, then explain what caused this sequence of events:
1. I click on abort during a burn in Jam.
2. Jam freezes with the spinning ball of doom and the Force Quit won't work from the Apple menu.
3. After waiting several minutes, I have no alternative but to press the hard reboot button.
4. Mac reboots, it still sees the drive in the System Profiler but the device will not mount any recorded or blank media.

This sequence of events has happened exactly the same way twice with the exact same results. The drives become unusable. SOFTWARE BROKE THESE DRIVES. If the only advise this site has to offer is to deny responsibility, I'm glad I didn't pay $35 for this.

This post has been edited by skylinepro: 29 June 2006 - 08:41 PM

[gaper1]

you can't mount doesn't mean your drive is broken...

This post has been edited by gaper1: 30 June 2006 - 05:43 AM

[skylinepro]

gaper1, on Jun 30 2006, 05:22 AM, said:

you can't mount doesn't mean your drive is broken... shows how much you know about your Mac...

None of you so called "experts" offer any solutions. Implying I'm stupid is not a solution, it's just an insult. The only thing that I have found that fixes the problem is to replace the drive. Got any other ideas? Bring it on. Either prove your intellectual superiority and offer a genuine solution or please STFU.

[gaper1]

would you help someone who just go up to you and yell at you? keep offending people is not the best way to ask for help... ever think about using that drive on a different computer? if it's broken, it's gonna be broken on every computer... frenchtoastwithjam and freshburn were nice enough to explain things to you even tho you had no manner... why would anyone suggest you anything since you don't want to listen anyway?

[skylinepro]

gaper1, on Jun 30 2006, 05:58 AM, said:

would you help someone who just go up to you and yell at you? keep offending people is not the best way to ask for help... ever think about using that drive on a different computer? if it's broken, it's gonna be broken on every computer... frenchtoastwithjam and freshburn were nice enough to explain things to you even tho you had no manner... why would anyone suggest you anything since you don't want to listen anyway?

If you check my previous posts, you will discover that I stated the drives did not work in other Macs once they became corrupted. That was established. Secondly, generalizations like "software cannot break a drive" and "it's like a car falling apart by hitting the breaks" are not solutions. "Shows how much you know about your Mac" is just a smug comeback, not a solution. Naming a specific driver file to replace is a solution. Offering a case history of what has caused Jam to freeze is a solution. Thirdly, I'm the only one who's intellect is being questioned and I'm supposed to be nice about it?

gaper1, on Jun 30 2006, 05:58 AM, said:

would you help someone who just go up to you and yell at you? keep offending people is not the best way to ask for help... ever think about using that drive on a different computer? if it's broken, it's gonna be broken on every computer... frenchtoastwithjam and freshburn were nice enough to explain things to you even tho you had no manner... why would anyone suggest you anything since you don't want to listen anyway?

If you check my previous posts, you will discover that I stated the drives did not work in other Macs once they became corrupted. That was established. Secondly, generalizations like "software cannot break a drive" and "it's like a car falling apart by hitting the breaks" are not solutions. "Shows how much you know about your Mac" is just a smug comeback, not a solution. Naming a specific driver file to replace is a solution. Offering a case history of what has caused Jam to freeze is a solution. Thirdly, I'm the only one who's intellect is being questioned and I'm supposed to be nice about it?

[freshburn]

Firmware is totally different. It accesses the ROM chip on the drive directly and erases the data, then reloads a new version. This can fry a drive because of the way it works.

Toast, Jam, and Popcorn do not access a burner like this and can not damage the drive. All it does is send a command to the drive.

Jam sends the abort command, but that command can not always be done. Some drives don't like it. Some times it just takes time to finish because the buffer has data or because of what the drive is currently doing. If your drive is not working, it is because you are doing a hard reboot of the OS which is putting the drive in a strange state. If you powered down, most likely the drive will start working. You may be corrupting the OS with the reboot also.

You can argue all you want, but the problem is not beyond Jam.

[skylinepro]

freshburn, on Jun 30 2006, 07:19 AM, said:

Firmware is totally different. It accesses the ROM chip on the drive directly and erases the data, then reloads a new version. This can fry a drive because of the way it works.

Toast, Jam, and Popcorn do not access a burner like this and can not damage the drive. All it does is send a command to the drive.

Jam sends the abort command, but that command can not always be done. Some drives don't like it. Some times it just takes time to finish because the buffer has data or because of what the drive is currently doing. If your drive is not working, it is because you are doing a hard reboot of the OS which is putting the drive in a strange state. If you powered down, most likely the drive will start working. You may be corrupting the OS with the reboot also.

You can argue all you want, but the problem is not beyond Jam.

I didn't come here to argue, I came for help. By removing the drive and inserting it into another Mac, it is the same as "powering down." So the evidence shows that "it will most likely start working" is an invalid assumption. The evidence does suggest that hard booting on a Pioneer drive during a Jam freeze will render the drive unusable. I can accept the premise that it is the hard boot and not the Jam application that blows the components on the DVD writer. However, the event that causes me to hard boot is the Jam freeze.
Jam is written for the Mac OS. The only Apple approved "Superdrive" for the Mac is a Pioneer. When Jam freezes, it begins a sequence of events that can destroy a Pioneer DVD writer. I care not who's to blame. My purpose is to make sure that:
A. other Jam users know that this can happen
B. Roxio knows that this can happen and
C. try to establish a list of which of the "some drives don't like it" and how this will be fixed. The Pioneer drive is what ships with the Mac. This will be a problem for someone else. Trust me.
Here is what I expect of Roxio:
1. News flash to all Mac users: the Pioneer DVR-110 and DVR-111 drives don't like Abort. An advisory to that effect would be useful to all Jam customers.
2. Post a known list of software conflicts and crash / freeze causes that customers can access. The only applications on this G4 - 1.5 GHz dual Mac with 10.4.6 OS (other than the stock iTunes, etc) that use the Pioneer drive are ProTools 7.1 TDM, Retrospect 6.1 and Toast 7 and Jam 6. This Mac is used only for pro-audio production.
3. My alternatives were this: spend $35 and more than 20 minutes listening to smooth jazz on hold for Tech support. Or spend $45 to replace the drive I would have to spend anyway and let this happen to other users. I choose instead to enter this forum to alert Roxio management and Jam users that this is a major problem. Thank you to Freshburn for at least admitting a compatibility problem exists with certain drives. The fact that it is the approved drive that ships with the computer the software was designed for would suggest that Roxio has a problem as well as I.

This post has been edited by skylinepro: 30 June 2006 - 09:40 AM

[John at Roxio]

1) If the drives dont like the abort command, then they shouldnt be released as a final product. This is a standard recording function that should work on any drive.
2) We have a knowledge base with all of the known issues covered already. I will consider making this an issue for the knowledge base if I can get independant confirmation that a problem exists with this model drive.
3) This isnt a major problem for Jam (it could be for Pioneer I guess). If you test with another make and model drive and the problem goes away, the process of elimination dictates where the problem is.

[freshburn]

Quote

The only Apple approved "Superdrive" for the Mac is a Pioneer.

This is not true. Apple ships many different drives and calls them all "Superdrives". They just ship what's cheap or what meets demand. Most Apple drives are modified in firmware, which also causes problems. Apple ships Pioneer, Sony, LG, and Matsushita just to name a few.

Quote

1. News flash to all Mac users: the Pioneer DVR-110 and DVR-111 drives don't like Abort. An advisory to that effect would be useful to all Jam customers.

Again, this is not true, I just aborted on a 110 and 111 in Jam and it worked fine. There is something in your hardware configuration, or timing that is causing the problem.


I have seen hangs when aborting. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I also have had to force reboot or power down firewire drive because of hangs, it something that just happens. However, after 6 years of working with Toast on many, many drives and media, I've never fried one drive because of this.

That leads me to believe that somewhere there is a hardware issue, maybe not with the drive, but with the bus it is on.

I strongly recommend updating the firmware of the Pioneer drives. I don't know what version you have, but Pioneer constant updates firmware. It may also be worth putting the drive in a firewire box. At least if a hang occurs, you can power down the firewire box and not the whole system.

Powering down the whole system can corrupt the OS, which will be even more problematic.

As for the hang, sometimes patience is the best thing. Just let the system finish what it is doing and sometimes things just free up.