12 replies to this topic

[Peabody67GTO]

Hello,
  I am having problems with using transitions on Roxio 8. I have used them in 7,6 and 5 without these problems. All I want is for the songs not to fade in or out. I want a song to play and then the next song start in the amount of seconds selected with out the 1st fading out and the next fading in. I have toggled the transitions icon and it will only work if the songs are selected to fade out at the end and then the next song fade in as the previous song fades out. I think it was called crossfade in the older versions. I hope this problem is clear the way I stated it. I just want the songs not to fade out or in and to have the song start in whatever amount of time selected. I want the natural fade of the song to stay original and the next song to start without fading in.
THANKS FOR ANY HELP.
Michael

[grandpabruce]

Peabody67GTO, on Jul 22 2006, 07:35 PM, said:

Hello,
  I am having problems with using transitions on Roxio 8. I have used them in 7,6 and 5 without these problems. All I want is for the songs not to fade in or out. I want a song to play and then the next song start in the amount of seconds selected with out the 1st fading out and the next fading in. I have toggled the transitions icon and it will only work if the songs are selected to fade out at the end and then the next song fade in as the previous song fades out. I think it was called crossfade in the older versions. I hope this problem is clear the way I stated it. I just want the songs not to fade out or in and to have the song start in whatever amount of time selected. I want the natural fade of the song to stay original and the next song to start without fading in.
THANKS FOR ANY HELP.
Michael

Why would you use a transition, then?  Put your songs in, and burn the disk.  Simple

[Peabody67GTO]

grandpabruce, on Jul 22 2006, 04:38 PM, said:

Why would you use a transition, then?  Put your songs in, and burn the disk.  Simple

I do not want any gaps between the songs. That is why I want to use the transitions so that the next song starts as the previous song is ending. I want it to sound like a mixed CD without any silence. But I do not like the way it sounds when one fades out and the other fades in. I hope this makes sense.

THANKS AGAIN

[sknis]

Peabody67GTO, on Jul 22 2006, 07:49 PM, said:

I do not want any gaps between the songs. That is why I want to use the transitions so that the next song starts as the previous song is ending. I want it to sound like a mixed CD without any silence. But I do not like the way it sounds when one fades out and the other fades in. I hope this makes sense.
THANKS AGAIN

GPB, this is another case of poor terminology in Music Disc Creator.  "Transition" in this case simply means the transition from one song to the next. In the image the little male/female icon shows that an overlap can be set to a specific number of seconds.  Roxio uses both fade and transition in MDC.  No fade is an abrupt ending (no volume change); there is no "no transition" unless there is only one song.

Peabody,  Perhaps an image will help. Make sure you have the fades set without fade in/out (the images has fades set). Select the transition as shown and set the time to around 10 seconds. This is the amount of overlap from one song to the next. Listen to the "transition" (speaker icon) and adjust the 10 seconds up or down to make the change from one song to the next as smooth as possible. Actually I think that you won't like it and may want to have a little fade in fade out so the change will not be so abrupt.

Edited by sknis, 23 July 2006 - 05:38 AM.

[ggrussell]

Peabody67GTO, on Jul 22 2006, 08:49 PM, said:

I do not want any gaps between the songs.

Make sure the actual music files have no silence before or after the music.  I've run into that before. If you are using Music Disc Creator, I believe it defaults to not writing the 2sec gap.

[Peabody67GTO]

sknis, on Jul 23 2006, 05:31 AM, said:

GPB, this is another case of poor terminology in Music Disc Creator.  "Transition" in this case simply means the transition from one song to the next. In the image the little male/female icon shows that an overlap can be set to a specific number of seconds.  Roxio uses both fade and transition in MDC.  No fade is an abrupt ending (no volume change); there is no "no transition" unless there is only one song.

Peabody,  Perhaps an image will help. Make sure you have the fades set without fade in/out (the images has fades set). Select the transition as shown and set the time to around 10 seconds. This is the amount of overlap from one song to the next. Listen to the "transition" (speaker icon) and adjust the 10 seconds up or down to make the change from one song to the next as smooth as possible. Actually I think that you won't like it and may want to have a little fade in fade out so the change will not be so abrupt.

Sknis,
  That is what I am trying to do, have the fades set without fade in/out. Your image does show the fades set but when I change them to without fade they still fade. That is what the problem is. If you have time set yours to without fade and you will see what I am talking about, they still fade. Yes I usually would have a little fade out in some songs so that it would not be so abrupt but I want the next song to start like normal without any fade in.

THANKS

[sknis]

Peabody67GTO, on Jul 23 2006, 01:31 PM, said:

Sknis, That is what I am trying to do, have the fades set without fade in/out. Your image does show the fades set but when I change them to without fade they still fade. That is what the problem is. If you have time set yours to without fade and you will see what I am talking about, they still fade. Yes I usually would have a little fade out in some songs so that it would not be so abrupt but I want the next song to start like normal without any fade in.
THANKS

Again,  if the fade in/out is in the original music, you can't change that.  Just increase the transition to more than 10 so that one "overwrites" (musically speaking) the last.  To see what you can do, change the transition to something like 20 or so, you will hear both pieces of music equally loud (if they are the same volume to begin with.)  

Professional discs are mastered so that the music transitions from one to the other so there are no abrupt changes.  Without it, it would be like changing radio stations from one to another instantaneously.  Try it sometime and your ears and brain won't like it. I used to try to do what you are doing with reel to reel tapes and I had to make sure that I did not cut in the middle of a music phrase for the tape to sound proper.

I admit that I'm not sure what type of CD that you are taking about that has no gaps between the cuts and no slight amount of fade in/out but I've listened to a lot of Cd's, LP, reel to reel and concerts and there is always some type of transition or musical phrase matching.

[Peabody67GTO]

sknis, on Jul 23 2006, 01:08 PM, said:

Again,  if the fade in/out is in the original music, you can't change that.  Just increase the transition to more than 10 so that one "overwrites" (musically speaking) the last.  To see what you can do, change the transition to something like 20 or so, you will hear both pieces of music equally loud (if they are the same volume to begin with.)  

Professional discs are mastered so that the music transitions from one to the other so there are no abrupt changes.  Without it, it would be like changing radio stations from one to another instantaneously.  Try it sometime and your ears and brain won't like it. I used to try to do what you are doing with reel to reel tapes and I had to make sure that I did not cut in the middle of a music phrase for the tape to sound proper.

I admit that I'm not sure what type of CD that you are taking about that has no gaps between the cuts and no slight amount of fade in/out but I've listened to a lot of Cd's, LP, reel to reel and concerts and there is always some type of transition or musical phrase matching.

Hi Skins,
  Thanks for your reply. I also have a TEAC 10.5" Reel To Reel and recorded many tracks in the 70's. I did what you said putting in 20 seconds and the songs are at the same level but there is still fade presant. That is great but I really just want to know if there is any way that use can use the transitions in EMC 8 without any song fading in or out? It was possible in the other versions. I like to let the song fade the way it was recorded and find the perfect second to start the next song without any changes in the songs original recordings (FADE IN/OUT). Maybe I am not making myself clear with my question or using the wrong words.
THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL YOUR HELP...

[Audioguy]

I believe we may have a bug here. I have forwarded this thread to the development team so they can look into it and confirm.

Gurus, could you try to replicate the following please:

1. launch MDC and add 5 or so audio tracks. IMPORTANT: Make sure the tracks all have a "hard start". That is, they "naturally" start without a fade-in
2. Select all tracks and set a 10 second overlap
3. Make sure there are no fades for the fade column (this is the default, so you shouldn't have to do anything)
4. Preview the track transitions by playing the tracks and fast forwarding to the last 20-15 seconds of the track. IMPORTANT: Don't use the "Preview Transition" speaker icon because it might not preview enough of the transition. I want to make sure you preview enough of the transition to tell if the next track is coming in "hard" or with a fade.

Let me know what you find. And Thank you!

Peabody,

Thanks for posting your issue. Please stand by. Just so you know, you should be able to do what you want using Sound Editor, however it is a more advanced method. You will have to use two layers in the mix editor, and stagger your music clips in the two layers so that they overlap. Then, you have to add track separators. Right-click in the mix editor and select "Add new track", or press the "t" key on your keyboard. You can then adjust the track separators to mark where your final Audio CD's tracks will start and end. Then, click "Burn Audio CD" on the left and make sure you are using the Tracks (not Clips) from your project. See attached screenshots. Again, this is an advanced method, but it does give you quite a bit of control.

Mix editor:


Burn audio CD:


Thanks everyone,

Audioguy

[Audioguy]

OK, so here is the problem when trying to overlap two tracks without any fading: You risk sound clipping or distortion as the two tracks' amplitudes get added together, causing a louder noise. This is why automatically, the program fades the tracks (hence the term crossfade). According to one of the developers:

"The only other solution I can think of right now is to lower the volume of all tracks to a level that prevents peak-overs, but of course the level should be consistenly lowered."

So, essentially there is no way to do what Peabody wants without the risk of sound clipping/distortion.

That said, perhaps we could allow you to turn this level of "protection" OFF so that you can hear the unfaded result - which might actually work for you (for example, the clipping might not be noticeable or non-existent in some cases.)

Would that be a worthwhile feature for people here?

Thanks,

Audioguy

[d_deweywright]

Audioguy, on Aug 1 2006, 06:19 PM, said:

OK, so here is the problem when trying to overlap two tracks without any fading: You risk sound clipping or distortion as the two tracks' amplitudes get added together, causing a louder noise. This is why automatically, the program fades the tracks (hence the term crossfade). According to one of the developers:

"The only other solution I can think of right now is to lower the volume of all tracks to a level that prevents peak-overs, but of course the level should be consistenly lowered."

So, essentially there is no way to do what Peabody wants without the risk of sound clipping/distortion.

That said, perhaps we could allow you to turn this level of "protection" OFF so that you can hear the unfaded result - which might actually work for you (for example, the clipping might not be noticeable or non-existent in some cases.)

Would that be a worthwhile feature for people here?

Thanks,

Audioguy

Yes, I think having the option to turn off the auto-fade would be very desireable.  If you go back to ECDC 5, 6, and 7, I believe they all had an option to overlap songs without fading.  I believe the auto-fade to prevent clipping was introduced with EMC 7.5.  I understand the reasoning, but there should be an option to turn it off.  Maybe pop-up a warning that clipping may occur (or even check for it with the settings and tracks that are being used and indicate how much clipping actually will occur) could be presented (with a check-box option to "not show this warning again").

My two cents, and thanks for looking at it.

[Peabody67GTO]

d_deweywright, on Aug 2 2006, 03:54 AM, said:

Yes, I think having the option to turn off the auto-fade would be very desireable.  If you go back to ECDC 5, 6, and 7, I believe they all had an option to overlap songs without fading.  I believe the auto-fade to prevent clipping was introduced with EMC 7.5.  I understand the reasoning, but there should be an option to turn it off.  Maybe pop-up a warning that clipping may occur (or even check for it with the settings and tracks that are being used and indicate how much clipping actually will occur) could be presented (with a check-box option to "not show this warning again").

My two cents, and thanks for looking at it.

Hello,
  Thanks for looking into this problem. I would love if we could turn the auto-fade off. How can this happen? What do I have to do to get a patch or update that will turn the auto fade off? I bought Creator 8 and do not even use it because I cannot make CD's the way I like to.
THANKS AGAIN!

[St3wp1d]

I also am having problems with 8.0 as far as fading is concerned. I either end up with (for better lack of a term) a harsh rasping noise inbetween fades. I constantly have to adjust both the amount of time for the two songs to over lap as well as my burn time. It seems if i slow the burn time down I have better success.

Does anyone know for sure whether or not Roxio has fixed this in 9.0? I'm about to see if I can find my old copy of 7 or 7.5 because I'm getting tired of throwing away discs that won't play correctly after they've been burned.

I've had Roxio on my computer since 5.0 - to be honest if I had known the problems 8.0 has created I wouldn't have "upgraded" (and I think that term in this case is a misnomer).