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Best Sound Settings And Practices For Tapes And Lps To Digital


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#1 tapetodigital

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 07:11 AM

Hello,

I recently purchased Creator Pro 2011 and have installed it on a Dell XP box and also the EasyCAP RCA (4 channel) to USB adapter.
I get pretty good quality but I notice sound noise (probably tape hiss).

1. I there a best practices guide for getting the best sound quality when digitizing tapes and LPs?
2. Is there a Driver that is supported for Windows 7 32/64bit for teh EasyCAP 4 channel to USB device?
3. I noticed when I keep the balance level in the middle the sound quality is not as good, so I put it all the way to the top and the quality is better. Any idea why that is?

thanks in advance

#2 sknis

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 08:10 AM

View Posttapetodigital, on 28 June 2011 - 07:11 AM, said:

Hello,

I recently purchased Creator Pro 2011 and have installed it on a Dell XP box and also the EasyCAP RCA (4 channel) to USB adapter.
I get pretty good quality but I notice sound noise (probably tape hiss).

1. I there a best practices guide for getting the best sound quality when digitizing tapes and LPs?
2. Is there a Driver that is supported for Windows 7 32/64bit for teh EasyCAP 4 channel to USB device?
3. I noticed when I keep the balance level in the middle the sound quality is not as good, so I put it all the way to the top and the quality is better. Any idea why that is?

thanks in advance

Is the Dell "box" a laptop?  If not, why use the EasyCap at all?

1)  Capture as wav (uncompressed ) files.
2)  If Creator works then it is using the best driver available.  I'm surprised it works.  Contact EasyCap for drivers.
3)  Please explain it more.  - is it the balance level or the volume level.  

Edit Audio has a function that will do some cleaning of the audio but it may not get rid of the tape hiss.  Have you cleaned the tape and the player heads?

Edited by sknis, 28 June 2011 - 08:24 AM.

PC  Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit  
Velocity Micro ProMagix ©HD 60; evga x58 motherboard, Intel i7 @2.93, 12G RAM, EVGA Nvidia 560TI superclocked video card, SoundBlaster X-Fi Xtreme audio card, Buffalo external blu-ray burner; Creator 2012. PhotoShow 6, VHS to DVD 3Plus.

Laptop - Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit
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#3 d_deweywright

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 09:04 AM

Okay, a quick look at the EasyCap 4 channel USB capture device shows that it accepts 4 video channels, and 1 audio channel.  So, it's not really a very good device for capturing audio, such as from tapes and LPs since they would presumably have two audio channels (stereo) and no video.  So, that wouldn't be considered a "best practices" device in this case.

If your PC has a line in jack, then you can connect your tape deck, or your turntable (with appropriate pre-amp) directly to that jack, and capture through that.  (You'd use a stereo RCA plug to stereo 1/8" plug "Y" adapter cable.)

The fact that you say you get better sound when you turn up the volume indicates that you may be hearing noise from the EasyCap device, rather than tape hiss, as tape hiss would also be increased with recording volume, where noise from the device may not (depends on how the mixer is working).

So, let us know a bit more about your PC and setup.
Dave D-W

Beware the lollipop of mediocrity.  Lick it once and you'll suck forever.  - Brian Wilson

[ASUS M4N98TD EVO MB | Athlon II X6 440 (3.3 GHz) | 4GB DDR3 RAM | GE Force 7800 video card | 1-500GB HD (C: XP, G: Win7 , D: - Apps, E: data & apps), 1-500 GB HD Data), L: 1-1 TB WD Green, M: 1 - 2TB Toshiba HD  | 2 - LiteOn DH20A4P DVD burners | External Dell QFlix DX-20A6Q DVD +/- writer  | Windows 7 (32-bit) | Creator 2012 | Tektronix Phaser 8560 solid ink printer | Epson R220 Photo/Disc printer | Ricoh GX 3110db dye sublimation ink | Epson Workforce 1100 printer | Microtek i900 Scanner]

#4 tapetodigital

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 01:42 AM

View Postsknis, on 28 June 2011 - 08:10 AM, said:

Is the Dell "box" a laptop?  If not, why use the EasyCap at all?

1)  Capture as wav (uncompressed ) files.
2)  If Creator works then it is using the best driver available.  I'm surprised it works.  Contact EasyCap for drivers.
3)  Please explain it more.  - is it the balance level or the volume level.  

Edit Audio has a function that will do some cleaning of the audio but it may not get rid of the tape hiss.  Have you cleaned the tape and the player heads?


Hello,

3. Regarding the balance control-  Next to the two VU meters that flutter when the audio is captured, there is a vertical balance slider, at least thats what it says it is when I put the mouse over this. When I keep the meter in the middle, it seems that the quality of sound is less than when I put the balance control all the way up. Whether the babalnce is in the middle or all teh way up both VU meters show the same signal strength.
4. Regarding the EasyCAP device- This is the EasyCAP DC60 - USB 2.0 Audio/video Creator Capture High- quality Ananlog Video device.
I also have a 3 RCA to USB cable.

I the best overall quality just using an RCA to 1/8 Y cable into the Mic In jack?

#5 tapetodigital

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 01:47 AM

View Postd_deweywright, on 28 June 2011 - 09:04 AM, said:

Okay, a quick look at the EasyCap 4 channel USB capture device shows that it accepts 4 video channels, and 1 audio channel.  So, it's not really a very good device for capturing audio, such as from tapes and LPs since they would presumably have two audio channels (stereo) and no video.  So, that wouldn't be considered a "best practices" device in this case.

If your PC has a line in jack, then you can connect your tape deck, or your turntable (with appropriate pre-amp) directly to that jack, and capture through that.  (You'd use a stereo RCA plug to stereo 1/8" plug "Y" adapter cable.)

The fact that you say you get better sound when you turn up the volume indicates that you may be hearing noise from the EasyCap device, rather than tape hiss, as tape hiss would also be increased with recording volume, where noise from the device may not (depends on how the mixer is working).

So, let us know a bit more about your PC and setup.




Hello,

3. Regarding the balance control- Next to the two VU meters that flutter when the audio is captured, there is a vertical balance slider, at least thats what it says it is when I put the mouse over this. When I keep the meter in the middle, it seems that the quality of sound is less than when I put the balance control all the way up. Whether the babalnce is in the middle or all teh way up both VU meters show the same signal strength.
4. Regarding the EasyCAP device- This is the EasyCAP DC60 - USB 2.0 Audio/video Creator Capture High- quality Ananlog Video device.
I also have a 3 RCA to USB cable.

I the best overall quality just using an RCA to 1/8 Y cable into the Mic In jack?

I have two machines I can use, one is a Dell Optiplex GX620 Desktop running XP Pro and the other is an IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad T500 running Windows 7 Ultimate. Would it make any difference what OS I'm using for overall quality of the end product?

#6 d_deweywright

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 02:32 AM

View Posttapetodigital, on 29 June 2011 - 01:47 AM, said:

Hello,

4. Regarding the EasyCAP device- This is the EasyCAP DC60 - USB 2.0 Audio/video Creator Capture High- quality Ananlog Video device.
I also have a 3 RCA to USB cable.

I the best overall quality just using an RCA to 1/8 Y cable into the Mic In jack?

I have two machines I can use, one is a Dell Optiplex GX620 Desktop running XP Pro and the other is an IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad T500 running Windows 7 Ultimate. Would it make any difference what OS I'm using for overall quality of the end product?

OS will not make a difference in final quality.  You do NOT want to use a microphone jack, if you're using the "Y" cable, you want to use a LINE in jack.  

Now, some motherboards have jacks that can be configured for either type of input or output.  If that's what you have then make sure you have it configured as a line-in jack, not mic.  The signal will be too high for a mic input and will tend to distort.

One advantage to using the line-in jack on your PC instead of the EasyCap device is that you can't control the input sensitivity of USB capture devices.  I'm not sure about the EasyCap device.  But basically, if your input signal is too high, then you can't reduce the sensitivity on many USB devices to avoid distortion or limiting.

So, using the "Y' cable into your line-in is what I usually prefer.  Then you want to adjust your recording volume so you have a strong signal that doesn't quite max out during the loud sections.  Another "problem" with some current recording chips is that they're set up so they won't actually clip.  I'm not sure if they apply limiting to the incoming signal or not, so you'll have to keep an eye on that.  If in doubt, record at a lower level rather than a higher one to avoid clipping and/or limiting.  (Distortion or compression.)

Hope that helps!
Dave D-W

Beware the lollipop of mediocrity.  Lick it once and you'll suck forever.  - Brian Wilson

[ASUS M4N98TD EVO MB | Athlon II X6 440 (3.3 GHz) | 4GB DDR3 RAM | GE Force 7800 video card | 1-500GB HD (C: XP, G: Win7 , D: - Apps, E: data & apps), 1-500 GB HD Data), L: 1-1 TB WD Green, M: 1 - 2TB Toshiba HD  | 2 - LiteOn DH20A4P DVD burners | External Dell QFlix DX-20A6Q DVD +/- writer  | Windows 7 (32-bit) | Creator 2012 | Tektronix Phaser 8560 solid ink printer | Epson R220 Photo/Disc printer | Ricoh GX 3110db dye sublimation ink | Epson Workforce 1100 printer | Microtek i900 Scanner]

#7 tapetodigital

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 04:18 AM

View Postd_deweywright, on 29 June 2011 - 02:32 AM, said:

OS will not make a difference in final quality.  You do NOT want to use a microphone jack, if you're using the "Y" cable, you want to use a LINE in jack.  

Now, some motherboards have jacks that can be configured for either type of input or output.  If that's what you have then make sure you have it configured as a line-in jack, not mic.  The signal will be too high for a mic input and will tend to distort.

One advantage to using the line-in jack on your PC instead of the EasyCap device is that you can't control the input sensitivity of USB capture devices.  I'm not sure about the EasyCap device.  But basically, if your input signal is too high, then you can't reduce the sensitivity on many USB devices to avoid distortion or limiting.

So, using the "Y' cable into your line-in is what I usually prefer.  Then you want to adjust your recording volume so you have a strong signal that doesn't quite max out during the loud sections.  Another "problem" with some current recording chips is that they're set up so they won't actually clip.  I'm not sure if they apply limiting to the incoming signal or not, so you'll have to keep an eye on that.  If in doubt, record at a lower level rather than a higher one to avoid clipping and/or limiting.  (Distortion or compression.)

Hope that helps!



Thanks Dave,

My laptop only has a Mic input and USB. I did get a cable that has RCA male to USB and I could use this on the tape deck.
What would you reconmmend if I cannot configure the Laptop Mic input as an "Input" and not Mic?

In general do you recommend the Line In over a USB connection?

Edited by tapetodigital, 29 June 2011 - 04:38 AM.


#8 tbrewst

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 04:53 AM

That device should work as long as Roxio recognizes it.

Leave the balance in the middle.All you're doing by moving it is isolating 1 channel which is probably gonna sound better than stereo.

I just did this with an old cassette tape I made in the early 80's.

What I did is this.

1)Capture the source.I captured as 1 file.
Once your capture is done then use the editor (Sound Editor) to break the file into tracks.I did this manually as I think you can do a better job than the detector,especially on certain types of music.

2)Now take each track separately and use the tools.Seeing as I had a cassette that was originally made from an LP it was fairly noisy.
Go to Clean Up Audio and use the sliders to take out noise.
What I did was move all 4 sliders to the top.This is all going to depend on the source and how it is to start with.Mine being fairly noisy I just moved them all to the max.
This does kill some of the high end so be careful.

3)Now that you've cleaned it up you can go to the next one which is
Enhancer.There are 2 settings Bass and Excite.Again depending on how the source started you may or may not want to use these.Good thing is you can apply it and then listen and see how it sounds.If you don't like it just take it off.
One thing to know about this is you can only choose 1 at a time.The directions even tell you this.What they don't tell you is you can apply it more than once.So the first time what I did was use Excite then I just chose Enhancer again and did Bass.You'll see 2 items below the track if you do this.Again if you use it adjust the level to your liking.

4)Lastly use the Equalizer and try to get the track to sound as close to the original as you can or to where it sounds good to you.You can get back some of the high end you'll lose from the original cleaning.

Depending on how you use these tools you can get the tracks you end up with to sound pretty close to the original minus a lot of the noise.
It really all depends on the source and how much you apply these tools.The more you clean the more you'll have to try and adjust for.
"Because I’m happy
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Because I’m happy
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Terry

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#9 d_deweywright

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 05:36 AM

View Posttapetodigital, on 29 June 2011 - 04:18 AM, said:

Thanks Dave,

My laptop only has a Mic input and USB. I did get a cable that has RCA male to USB and I could use this on the tape deck.
What would you reconmmend if I cannot configure the Laptop Mic input as an "Input" and not Mic?

In general do you recommend the Line In over a USB connection?

My preference for Line in over using a USB capture device is mostly because of the extra level of control of the recording level.  If your Tape deck isn't over driving the input to the USB capture device, then it comes down to which device, the USB capture device or your sound card/chip has a better A-to-D section.  In most cases, you'd probably have to do some serious listening to hear a difference.
Dave D-W

Beware the lollipop of mediocrity.  Lick it once and you'll suck forever.  - Brian Wilson

[ASUS M4N98TD EVO MB | Athlon II X6 440 (3.3 GHz) | 4GB DDR3 RAM | GE Force 7800 video card | 1-500GB HD (C: XP, G: Win7 , D: - Apps, E: data & apps), 1-500 GB HD Data), L: 1-1 TB WD Green, M: 1 - 2TB Toshiba HD  | 2 - LiteOn DH20A4P DVD burners | External Dell QFlix DX-20A6Q DVD +/- writer  | Windows 7 (32-bit) | Creator 2012 | Tektronix Phaser 8560 solid ink printer | Epson R220 Photo/Disc printer | Ricoh GX 3110db dye sublimation ink | Epson Workforce 1100 printer | Microtek i900 Scanner]

#10 tapetodigital

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 11:31 AM

View Postd_deweywright, on 29 June 2011 - 05:36 AM, said:

My preference for Line in over using a USB capture device is mostly because of the extra level of control of the recording level.  If your Tape deck isn't over driving the input to the USB capture device, then it comes down to which device, the USB capture device or your sound card/chip has a better A-to-D section.  In most cases, you'd probably have to do some serious listening to hear a difference.



Thanks again

I checked in the BIOS of the THinkpad T500 and the Mic port can be disabled and that will put it into a Line In mode.
My guess is the Sound controller Chip set is better on the ThinkPad than the Dell since the ThinkPad is only a year old.
But I'll check the specs anyway.

#11 tapetodigital

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 08:50 AM

Hello again,

I have one more question.

I have been using the line-in port and the built-n Audio chiptset that this Dell Optiplex GX620 has.
It utilizes the Intel-945G series for the Audio chipset and it sound pretty good for digitizing my (books on tape).

I also have a SoundBlaster SB0090 PCI card that I could use. This is a 24Bit audio signal and it has been around for a while.

After I get done digitizing these books on tape I will start digitizing my old Music on Tape, LPs and VHS.

I would like to get the best sound quality possible if it will be noticable to most ears.

What are your recommendations on the best Audio card I could use to get the best result?  I have been looking around but I wanted to see what people are using that have been doing this process and getting the best quality audio.

Thanks

#12 d_deweywright

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 09:14 AM

"Best" is in the ear of the behearer.  (Or something like that.)  You'll find some who will suggest you should be getting a high-end card, using 24-bit samples, at a 96KHz sampling rate (or even higher).  Some who are happy with the chipset that came built into their PC, and some who swear by a particular brand.

But, there are several things to consider... what is the final destination of your audio?  If you're going to a standard playable Audio CD, then that eventually comes down to 16-bit samples at 44.1KHz sampling rate.  So, no sense in capturing at a higher rate and depth, then have to resample down to CD quality, and actually have to do some interpolation.  

If you're end "product" is an Audio DVD, then you may want to have those extra bits and samples.

MP3 files to an MP3 player?  Okay, now you're tossing sound away when you encode to MP3, so no need for the extra samples and bits.

Listening critically in a quiet home environment with high end speakers or headphones with good electronics?  You probably don't want MP3 files, or anything less than at least CD quality.

Listening in a car while driving?  You're not going to hear the extra bits or samples, might as well make an MP3 disc (if your car player will play them) and get the extra time on each disc.

You've done a lot of shooting sports?  Have you checked your hearing lately?  You may not be hearing the top octave or two anyway (though that's no reason to capture less then CD quality, someone else may be listening too).

My "standard"?  Capture as uncompressed .WAV file, CD quality (16-bit, 44.1KHz, stereo) and create an Audio CD.  Then also create MP3 files to put in my library at work, and/or put on my MP3 player.  I've always got the CD to go back to.

Oh, and since you've got the Sound Blaster card, you can always install that, capture the same piece using that card, and the built-in sound card in your PC, then do a side-by-side comparison and see if you can hear any difference!  (Try to get the two captures at the same volume level, otherwise psycho acoustics dictate that almost invariably the louder one will sound "better".)

In the end, it's your ears you have to satisfy.  So, I apologize if this was long, and not definitive, but the goal was to give you some things to think about as you go about making your own decision.
Dave D-W

Beware the lollipop of mediocrity.  Lick it once and you'll suck forever.  - Brian Wilson

[ASUS M4N98TD EVO MB | Athlon II X6 440 (3.3 GHz) | 4GB DDR3 RAM | GE Force 7800 video card | 1-500GB HD (C: XP, G: Win7 , D: - Apps, E: data & apps), 1-500 GB HD Data), L: 1-1 TB WD Green, M: 1 - 2TB Toshiba HD  | 2 - LiteOn DH20A4P DVD burners | External Dell QFlix DX-20A6Q DVD +/- writer  | Windows 7 (32-bit) | Creator 2012 | Tektronix Phaser 8560 solid ink printer | Epson R220 Photo/Disc printer | Ricoh GX 3110db dye sublimation ink | Epson Workforce 1100 printer | Microtek i900 Scanner]

#13 tbrewst

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 09:26 AM

One thing to remember (I think) is that Roxio's software doesn't do well with 24 bit samples.
It works ok with 16 bit.
Seems like this has been a problem that's been brought up in the past.
"Because I’m happy
Clap along if you feel like a room without a roof
Because I’m happy
Clap along if you feel like happiness is the truth
Because I’m happy
Clap along if you know what happiness is to you
Because I’m happy
Clap along if you feel like that’s what you wanna do"



Terry

64 bitWindows 8.1 OS
AMD FX-8320 8 core 3.5Ghz processor with Arctic Freezer 64 Pro cooling fan
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Galaxy  GeForce GTX 550 Ti video card with 1Gb memory
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#14 d_deweywright

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 09:55 AM

Thanks, Terry, I'd meant to mention that, but forgot.
Dave D-W

Beware the lollipop of mediocrity.  Lick it once and you'll suck forever.  - Brian Wilson

[ASUS M4N98TD EVO MB | Athlon II X6 440 (3.3 GHz) | 4GB DDR3 RAM | GE Force 7800 video card | 1-500GB HD (C: XP, G: Win7 , D: - Apps, E: data & apps), 1-500 GB HD Data), L: 1-1 TB WD Green, M: 1 - 2TB Toshiba HD  | 2 - LiteOn DH20A4P DVD burners | External Dell QFlix DX-20A6Q DVD +/- writer  | Windows 7 (32-bit) | Creator 2012 | Tektronix Phaser 8560 solid ink printer | Epson R220 Photo/Disc printer | Ricoh GX 3110db dye sublimation ink | Epson Workforce 1100 printer | Microtek i900 Scanner]

#15 tbrewst

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 04:45 AM

I was hoping I was remembering correctly...:blink:
"Because I’m happy
Clap along if you feel like a room without a roof
Because I’m happy
Clap along if you feel like happiness is the truth
Because I’m happy
Clap along if you know what happiness is to you
Because I’m happy
Clap along if you feel like that’s what you wanna do"



Terry

64 bitWindows 8.1 OS
AMD FX-8320 8 core 3.5Ghz processor with Arctic Freezer 64 Pro cooling fan
Gigabyte GA-970A-DS3 AM3+ motherboard
Galaxy  GeForce GTX 550 Ti video card with 1Gb memory
8Gb G Skill Ripjaws Series DDR3 1600 RAM
120GB OCZ Vertex 3 SSD drive
1Tb Hitachi SATA hard drive
LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray drive
Lite-On iHAS224-06 SATA DVD drive
Rosewill Destroyer case
Cambridge Soundworks THX 5.1 speaker system
Onboard Realtek HD audio
I-inc iH-252HPB 25" widescreen monitor connected via HDMI
Samsung 2525W Laser Printer




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