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Cyraxote

Creator 2012 Seems Hard-Coded To Not Work With Tivo

Question

I am trying to use Creator 2012 to convert TiVo video to DVD. I have multiple files from multiple channels: CBS, TCM, PBS, Showtime, etc. In every case, I receive the message "This folder contains files protected with Digital Rights Management (DRM) technology. DRM protected files cannot be added to a project, so they will not be displayed."

 

I e-mailed Roxio support, which responded: "I wish I can be of help but unfortunately, you can't convert it. If Tivo added DRM to the file it can't be copied. You'd have to bring it up with them. The DRM kicks in when you try to convert it. You can watch it on the computer, yes. But you are NOT allowed to copy it. Thank you for understanding. Should you require further assistance. Please do not hesitate to contact us with any further questions."

 

I decided to try a little test. I renamed a WMV file to "TEST.WMV" and put it in its own folder. I opened Creator and pointed the "copy and convert" function at this folder. Creator accepted this file; it was displayed in the folder.

 

I then exited completely from Creator. I renamed the file TEST.TiVo. I then re-opened Creator and pointed the "copy and convert" function at the folder containing the file. This time, I was given the message about DRM even though, clearly, no file in the folder contained DRM. THis tells me that Creator is using the file's extension to determine that it is a TiVo file, even when it's not really a TiVo file. Further, this means that Creator WILL NOT WORK WITH ANY TIVO FILE, even though both Roxio and Tivo recommend the purchase of Roxio Creator to convert Tivo video to DVD.

 

I called TiVO, who had me check my CableCard settings, and they said all was as it should be. I suggested to them that they cease recommending Roxio Creator to convert TiVo files. It clearly will not work.

 

I will now attempt to return the software. Wish me luck.

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Nothing in your post indicated that you have the TiVo Desktop installed?

 

Minimum requirements to work with TiVo are listed Here

 

And there is a general tutorial, Here

 

I don't have TiVo so I cannout really help you troubleshoot this, but far to many folks here do it all the time leading one to conclude that your experance is not the norm ;)

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I do have TiVo Desktop installed (I'm not aware of any other way I could have transferred the video to my machine). I meet or exceed all of the requirements for use of Creator. I have seen the tutorial (although both links you provided are the same, and neither is to the tutorial).

 

What alternative explanations would you have for my test? Given the data, my conclusion is not unreasonable.

 

Finally, I have searched these forums and found very few mentions of TiVo, and even fewer mentions of successful use of Creator to convert TiVo video.

Edited by Cyraxote

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Thanks for pointing that, this is the correct link, HERE

 

As far as your results??? Bizarre is the word that comes to mind :lol:

 

If a file is copy protected, you cannot eliminate by simply changing the extension.

 

I was trying to offer you some help but I sense you really don't have any interest in that ~ I hope you get it fixed ;)

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I would like help. However, I doubt that it exists. In any case, my sense was that you were more interested in telling me how my experience was atypical than in providing help. In addition, the help you did provide was information that I clearly already had: without it, I would have been unable to 1) copy the files to my computer or 2) determine that Creator does not recognize those files, and therefore I could not have posted the original message in the first place.

 

You also can't ADD copy protection by changing the extension, but my experiment showed that this is what Creator seems to be doing—or, rather, it seems to be assuming that any file with a .TiVo extension video has DRM protection.

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I would like help. However, I doubt that it exists. In any case, my sense was that you were more interested in telling me how my experience was atypical than in providing help. In addition, the help you did provide was information that I clearly already had: without it, I would have been unable to 1) copy the files to my computer or 2) determine that Creator does not recognize those files, and therefore I could not have posted the original message in the first place.

 

You also can't ADD copy protection by changing the extension, but my experiment showed that this is what Creator seems to be doing—or, rather, it seems to be assuming that any file with a .TiVo extension video has DRM protection.

 

If what you claim were true then there would be a whole lot of people experiencing what you are ... and they are not.

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So you're saying I made this up? Why? To further my one-man crusade against Roxio Creator? Go read the reviews of any of the last few versions of Creator on Amazon, and I think you'll see I'm not alone.

 

At the most, "a whole lot of people" are not reporting it. You don't have sufficient data to say that they are not experiencing it (or at least you haven't presented such data).

 

Here's at least one other person with a problem similar to my own:

 

http://forums.support.roxio.com/topic/83582-tivo-conversion-has-stopped-working/

Edited by Cyraxote

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Here's at least one other person with a problem similar to my own:

 

Well Cryaxote, I get the same result as you do, with Creator 2012 Video Copy and Convert. Perhaps Jim and Walt should try the same process and see if they get a different result.

 

-Creator 2012 Pro in Windows 7

-Tivo Desktop 2.8.3 installed and running

-find a handy WMV file supplied with Windows 7 DVD Maker, BabyBoyMainBackground.wmv

-copy that WMV to BabyBoyMainBackground.tivo. Here they are in the folder as seen by Windows Explorer.

 

post-208-0-00140900-1354689706_thumb.jpg

 

-Open Video Copy and Convert, and point it to the folder containing those two files. VCC complains that the renamed WMV file is DRM protected, so it won't allow me to see the unprotected WMV which has been renamed to .TIVO. All it will allow me to see is the file called .WMV, even though both files are digitally identical.

 

post-208-0-02316800-1354689895_thumb.jpg

post-208-0-15822400-1354690027_thumb.jpg

 

Logic tells me that either Video Copy and Convert is restricting my view and use of the file simply because it now has a .TIVO extension, OR that WMV files have a byte which looks like a TIVO DRM byte at the same place in the file header that TIVO files store their DRM.

 

To try and exclude the latter possibility, I got an XVID avi file, and copied it to my folder, along with the identical AVI file renamed to XVID.TIVO.

Here they are under Windows Explorer

 

post-208-0-41232500-1354690523_thumb.jpg

 

And here is all that Video Copy and Convert will let me see. It has assumed that my renamed AVI file is a .TIVO file and therefore declared it DRM protected.

 

post-208-0-44834800-1354691274_thumb.jpg

 

Q.E.D.

 

 

Now it could be that AVI files have a byte that might be mistaken for a TIVO DRM byte, but I don't feel inclined to go through a whole 'nother bunch of video file types just to prove that Video Copy and Convert is reacting merely to the .TIVO file extension and giving a false positive for presence of DRM as you suggested.

 

The people's case rests. If the defense can demonstrate a flaw in the logic, feel free to do so.

 

Regards,

Brendon

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The is no Roxo Court here and no reason to act like there is.. :wacko:

 

For the test to work, you have to have TiVo files, not something hobbed together. I think you hit the nail on the head, the files you renamed are the same internally however they cannot be and are not perceived as being the same by the program...

 

But step back and look at this... How likely that Cyraxote is the Only User of TiVo & Creator 2012???

 

If there were a problem don't you think ALL of the TiVo/Creator users would have stepped up from the time the Suite was produced??? (8/11 - 8/12)

 

Maybe Cyraxote could post a couple of short TiVo examples (10 sec or so) on a host like UpForDown so we can test them against 2012 as well as other versions of Creator???

 

On the other hand, if renaming them to something else allows them to be used... that would seem to be a bandaid fix ;)

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Jim, I will try to do that this weekend.

 

However, I think you're missing the point that Creator thinks ANY file, regardless of content, is a Tivo file if the extension is ".tivo" That seems to be a major lapse of some kind.

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Jim, I will try to do that this weekend.

 

However, I think you're missing the point that Creator thinks ANY file, regardless of content, is a Tivo file if the extension is ".tivo" That seems to be a major lapse of some kind.

No not missed... and you might be right!

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OK, I decided to circumvent this problem, so I used software called "Direct Show Dump" to remove the DRM from the TiVo files. I added a couple of the files to Copy & convert, did a little editing, and output them to DVD. I put 5 ~20 min mpg files in the project, and the resulting DVD is not full (i can see where the burn stopped on the back of the DVD), yet the quality is significantly lower than I was expecting. I know that I can't get HD video on DVD, but this seemed to be of even lower quality than standard definition (720x480), and it was very pixelated.

 

1) Is there a way to control the quality? I'm assuming that because I didn't add enough files to fill the disc that the quality could have been better. (I've used DVD Flick in the past, and it adjusts quality [bit rate, I think] based on how much you add to a disc.)

 

2) At no point could I specify whether I was using a DVD-5 or a DVD-9. Is this possible? This kind of goes hand-in-hand with the first question. That is, more space should equal better quality, with the variable being the number of files I add to the project.

 

This is probably worthy of a new post, but I thought I'd ask, just in case.

 

Thanks for your help.

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Did this software 'remove the DRM' from real TIVO files and the renamed WMV files so that Creator will use them, or did you just avoid Creator and use Video Copy and Convert?

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I didn't run it on WMV files. Not a reason to do that. This makes me able to avoid whatever Creator is doing with file extensions and use the files in Video Copy and Convert; however, as noted above, there are issues with that as well. After I posted my last, I see that I could probably improve the quality by changing the bit rate.

 

The next problem is that the DVD menu editor in C&C is primitive to the point of stupidity. You can change fonts, but you can't change the text itself.

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I don't have tivo but I wondered if any of this is applicable: from the Kb articles:

 

"TiVo¨ requires a TiVo¨ Series2ª, Series3ª, TiVo HD DVR or other TiVoToGoª compatible DVR connected to your home network and TiVo Desktop. Does not work with DirecTV¨ provided TiVo DVRs. See www.tivo.com for more information."

 

Is a DirectTV DRV involved?

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I have the same DRM problem on my Windows 7 desktop. My Windows 7 laptop does not give the DRM message and will burn my Tivo files to DVD with no problem. Roxio support of course blames Tivo instead of trying to find the real problem. It is obviously not a Tivo issue if it works on one of my computers and not the other. Finding a solution to this problem would be great since my desktop is faster at creating DVDs than my laptop.

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I have the same DRM problem on my Windows 7 desktop. My Windows 7 laptop does not give the DRM message and will burn my Tivo files to DVD with no problem. Roxio support of course blames Tivo instead of trying to find the real problem. It is obviously not a Tivo issue if it works on one of my computers and not the other. Finding a solution to this problem would be great since my desktop is faster at creating DVDs than my laptop.

 

Hmmm, both software packages work on one computer but not the other? Perhaps it is neither TIVO nor the Roxio program. What else is different? Are both computers connected the same way? Arew the two computers very similar -- same OS, some video devices, etc?

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I have the solution to this problem. If you are still within the 30 day return policy then send your software back. There is some great software called (deleted) It edits and burns all of my Tivo files without any problems. They have a 15 day trial period and if you like it then you can purchase it. I am using Windows 7. Try it out, I think you will be pleased.

 

Thanks

Edited by sknis
Delete reference to other software that is not free. Against forum rules.

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Note, if you want to suggest a piece of software for the OP to try, send them a private message (p.m.)

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Excellent topic, thanks. FWIW, typically any TiVo content I pull over with TiVo Desktop I feed into MyDVD (videowave13) and convert down into DVD format. Typically I'll edit out undesirable segments (like commercials, bumpers at the start and end, etc.). Then I'll use Handbrake to put them into MP4 format at resolutions I care to keep around.

 

I've found that if I can pull it down from the TiVo, I can use Roxio and this process to deal with it. Perhaps if I had TiVo Desktop Plus I could pull down the copyrighted stuff too?

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With regard to the problems with Roxio Creator burning .Tivo files, I think I know the problem. I use Tivo Desktop Plus to transfer the recorded program to my PC. On my Vista PC, Roxio Creator will find and burn the transferred .Tivo file. On my Windows 7 PC, Roxio Creator does not find (see) any.Tivo files to burn. So - the issue seems to be that Roxio Creator on Windows 7 thinks that the file is DRM protected and will not find or burn it. Neither Tivo or Roxio seem to be interested in fixing this. If anyone has a solution that doesn't involve using another program to remove the DRM, please post it. THANKS!

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