Toast 10 and surround 5.1

[insch 0]

I have Toast Titanium 10. I haven't used it in years because I don't tend to need DVDs any more. However I need to burn one with 5.1 surround now. Can I do that in TT 10. If so, what is the workflow?  I have the 5.1 mix in various formats including AC3. Thanks.

[theoldarchiver 53]

Toast defaults to encoding files to DVD-Video stereo AC3 (named ‘Dolby Digital’ in the interface). [I think that was true for v10 as well.]
But … it will also accept AC3 files as-is, creating a loophole for including multichannel audio. The trick is (a) to set Toast to “never re-encode” and (b) to use DVD compliant files (.m2v video-only + .ac3 audio-only) as input. Just add the video part. If the matching audio is in the same folder and has the same base name, then Toast will include it. If Toast can’t find matching audio, it will ask for it. Toast will create a disc (or disc image) with the original video and original audio, preserving the 5.1 audio.

If you don’t have .mpg /.m2v, then you can let Toast encode your input file into DVD compliant format, and then move the temporary video file (delete any temporary audio file!), which you can then use for the second run with your original 5.1 audio. (The temporary files are stored in ~/Documents/Roxio Converted Items/ .)

Please ask if this is not clear. (And I hope I don’t have to re-install v10 to verify details on each step – if that even works on Sierra.)

[insch 0]

Thank you - that's really helpful. I didn't have a .m2v file so I used a piece of multiplexing software to combine my 5.1 AC3 with the video (from MP4) and at the same time strip the stereo track that was with my MPEG 4 file. I then took the resultant .mkv file into Toast. it has certainly created a dvd and it has video and audio but I don't know whethere it's 5.1 yet - I will get access to a surround system on Friday. Does my process sound like it might work?

[theoldarchiver 53]

You can check the new DVD even before the surround system, as it will either be converted to stereo, or as original. Software can show you the audio channel layout by analyzing it. Open the VTS_01_1.VOB  from the resulting DVD in VLC/QuickTime Player/Apple DVD Player/HandBrake/MPEG Streamclip/VideoSpec/iMediaHUD/MediaInfo or any other application that will show you details the numbers of channels for the audio.
VLC (⌘-I while playing or paused) will say 3F2M/LFE; QuickTime Player will say 5.1 (L C R Ls Rs LFE); Apple DVD Player will say Channels:6 ; HandBrake will say 5.1 ch; MPEG Streamclip will say 3/2; VideoSpec will say 6 channels; iMediaHUD will say 6 channels; MediaInfo will say 6 channels.

[insch 0]

Thanks - very good advice. When I open it in QT and VLC (see attcahed) is says the audio is stereo so I guess it's been converted. In MediaInfo it says the orginal AC3 file is 6 channel. So it looks like Toast converted it. So back to drawing board. Do you think I should I upgrade Toast or use something else here?

 

 

 

[theoldarchiver 53]

No, upgrading Toast won’t help for this purpose, and will have the same result. You have to tweak your workflow:
So you had Toast convert your MKV to DVD-Video. If you have Toast still open, you should have an .m2v in the Roxio Converted Items folder.

Move that .m2v to another folder (to preserve it), e.g. together with your input files.

Rename the .m2v and original .ac3 files so that they match. The base filename will be the suggestion for clip title in the menu, but you can change that manually later.

Then set Toast up to make a new disc again. Add the .m2v file. Toast will know about the matching .ac3 file automatically. Set disc title, menu, menu title, clip description, etc. as your would normally. File > Save as Disc Image. Let Toast create a .toast file. This will be fast, as the conversion has already been done. Mount the disc image file as a virtual disc. Play in Apple DVD Player. Check for audio channels again.

Edited February 21, 2018 by theoldarchiver

[insch 0]

I am now following your procedure but having some strange behaviour. When I drag the m2v file (666.6 MB) into Toast it says that there is 12.52 GB on 1 disc so it won't burn to DVD. Any thoughts on this?

 

[insch 0]

It also says 4:32:35 for the duration of the m2v in Toast but the original MP4 that it came from is just over 15 mins.

[theoldarchiver 53]

Obvious wrong Space Remaining is usually fixed by trashing the Toast .plist and prefs files in your User>Library>Preferences folder and relaunching Toast.

~/Library/Preferences/Roxio Toast Prefs
~/Library/Preferences/com.roxio.Toast.plist

[insch 0]

Thanks

[insch 0]

I have now tried a different approach. My producer suggested creating a VIDEO_TS folder which he has done. I've checked the VOB in there and it's 5.1 surround. I've attached a grab of the contents. When I dragged this TS folder into Toast it created a DVD fine. But when I open the VOB in his TS folder in QT it says it is 5.1 but in the Toast created DVD VOB it says stereo. See grabs. Any thoughts?

 

[insch 0]

Sorted it. I was dragging the TS folder into the DVD video setup in Toast rather than the TS folder setup. The former obviously reworked the audio. The DVD now appears to have 5.1 audio. I'll now try it on a surround system.

 

Thanks for all your help - I really apprecaite that.

[theoldarchiver 53]

48 minutes ago, insch said:

My producer suggested creating a VIDEO_TS folder which he has done.

Do you mean you created a VIDEO_TS folder structure with something other than Toast? I didn’t realize you had that at your disposal. If I may ask, what software did you use? 

I’m glad you got it working. (I still think it should have worked with only Toast, though.)

[insch 0]

My producer created the VIDEO_TS folder using Encore. I don't know why Toast didn't get it right. I'll spend more time on that some time.

[insch 0]

Hi, I'm back! My playback worked and it had surround sound. Thanks for your help. I requested some tweaks and now need to do another viewing. The sound engineer (who is over 200 miles away)  recommended that I don't use the AC3 to really assess what's going on. He suggested using a DTS file. Any knowledge/advice about authoring a DTS 5.1 DVD in Toast?

Thanks.

[insch 0]

I'm still struggling with this 5.1 DVD issue. It’s all a bit of a minefield for me. From the new 5.1 mix, currently I have burned one DVD with AC3 which it says is stereo although it came from a 5.1 AC3 file, a second DVD with a DTS track where the disc says it has 5 channels rather than an expected 6. I have also been given a DTS audio only Image File from the sound engineer that when I burn it says it only has one audio track. No video on that one so I'll have to run a separate video feed when I view it. I'll have to book a space to check this 5.1 mix - not sure what I'll find on these DVDs! Boy, this is tricky. Oh, by the way, when I try and create a m2v file from my original mov file in Toast it creates a very long file that doesn't match the original length and is huge when I bring it into Toast. I've ditched ~/Library/Preferences/Roxio Toast Prefs but can't find any plist. That didn't address this issue. Anything I am missing?

Edited February 27, 2018 by insch

[theoldarchiver 53]

On 2/26/2018 at 6:28 PM, insch said:

My playback worked and it had surround sound.

Awesome!

I requested some tweaks and now need to do another viewing. The sound engineer (who is over 200 miles away)  recommended that I don't use the AC3 to really assess what's going on. He suggested using a DTS file. Any knowledge/advice about authoring a DTS 5.1 DVD in Toast?

I’m not sure that I follow that about AC3 vs. DTS, but I’d trust an audio engineer’s opinion about that. I only know DTS from a few discs that I have. I do not have a DTS encoder software. I never did compare the formats myself (but have read a bit about it). To make a DVD disc that follows the DVD specification, each ‘title’ on disc should have at least an AC3 or PCM audio track, with other formats (read: DTS) optional. 

It used to be that AC3 and DTS tracks were encoded by different firms, and thus inherently different and hard to compare fairly. Not anymore so. The maximum bitrate on DVD-Video discs is a bit lower for AC3 than for DTS, which may be the origin of the preference for DTS by some audiophiles. 

I don’t think that Toast allows DTS for authoring. The Toast 10 manual only mentions DTS as an audio stream to optionally skip when copying a DVD. Try anyway. I hope to learn from you.

(I suppose Encore should be able to use it to craft a valid VIDEO_TS folder, which you then can burn with e.g. Toast.)

3 hours ago, insch said:

I'm still struggling with this 5.1 DVD issue. It’s all a bit of a minefield for me. From the new 5.1 mix, currently I have burned one DVD with AC3 which it says is stereo although it came from a 5.1 AC3 file, a second DVD with a DTS track where the disc says it has 5 channels rather than an expected 6. I have also been given a DTS audio only Image File from the sound engineer that when I burn it says it only has one audio track. No video on that one so I'll have to run a separate video feed when I view it. I'll have to book a space to check this 5.1 mix - not sure what I'll find on these DVDs! Boy, this is tricky. Oh, by the way, when I try and create a m2v file from my original mov file in Toast it creates a very long file that doesn't match the original length and is huge when I bring it into Toast. I've ditched ~/Library/Preferences/Roxio Toast Prefs but can't find any plist. That didn't address this issue. Anything I am missing?

The idea is for Toast to use the original multichannel audio, by creating the necessary elementary streams in advance, to avoid ANY re-encoding in the last step. I could draw a pretty picture, but in essence a repetition of what I wrote earlier. It is the round-about way of dealing with the limitations in Toast.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[insch 0]

Thank you for your help. I now have some encoded DVDs that I'll try tomorrow. Fingers crossed.