MP4 camera

[ECUMC]

We are probably getting the following https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1250997-REG/panasonic_ag_ux90_4k_professional_camcorder.html
(needed to hook up to the sound system and wanted something that would record to MP4 to save me from having to merge the AVCHD MTS files. But I understand that even MP4 will record in clips. I use mostly Roxio NXT pro, but also use Handbrake to extract the sermon from the image to post on YouTube. Does anyone know if the clips going to have to be merged and rendered even if recorded to MP4, or is there a faster way with that format, or this camera?

[bimicher]

If the camcorder records to individual clips (no matter what format), then those clips will have to be "merged" to a single clip if that is what you want. This can be done easily with Roxio. Roxio of course can also extract the "sermon" from any video file.

It is not really clear from your post what you are trying to do.

[ECUMC]

Sorry, we record the entire service, I then add chapter marks (app 8-10) , add menu music, make jewel case inserts, and burn a disc image. I then extract the sermon from the image using Handbrake to put on YouTube and burn the entire image (with chapter marks) to DVD for use for shut ins and a nursing home. Because the current camcorder is limited by the format, it splits the service into 2-3 files. This was not as  big of a deal with the previous version I had (I think #2), but with this one, I have to go into VideoWave to merge to a single file before I can go into DVD creator. Part of the reason I am getting the camcorder I am is to prevent th4e extra hour or so to merge the file. But, if it is going to take as long or longer to do so with MP4, then I am not sure I am saving anything in that regard (except having to convert from one  format (.MTS to MP4). I may have to look for some program to do the merging faster if that is the case, or I might as well get a cheaper video camera that only records in the MTS format).

I was told by a sales rep that he is unaware of any Video Cameras that do not record to clips if the MP4 format.) I don't mind the merging if it isn't going to take so long.

Edited November 4, 2018 by ECUMC

[bimicher]

It is going to take some time to do what you want and that has nothing to do with merging the individual clips. You are converting the HD mp4 or mts clips to mpg (DVD compliant format) and that will take a long time. Also adding chapter points, menus,etc will also increase rendering times.

In my opinion that camcorder is overkill for what you want to do which is create DVDs

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by myguggi

[ECUMC]

I have been doing it for some time. I would like to just like to knock an hour or so off of the time (merging). I can get a Canon for around 1300. but it only does AVCHD. I need one with inputs (line level and XLR)to hook to our sound system, so that increases the price. Our consumer model uses a built in mic and picks up too much background noise.

[bimicher]

The problem is not the merging, the problem is the rendering from HD video to DVD compliant video.

[ECUMC]

But isn't that what's going on when it's making an image or burning a disc?

Edited November 5, 2018 by ECUMC

[Jim_Hardin]

ECUMC: You raise a lot of conflicting issues

The reasons you are having these are format, storage media and output.

• Format: the file size needed for the various formats is dependent on the resolution (720 X 480, 1920 X 1080, etc.) and the quality MBPS.
• Storage Media: if an SD card is used it will be formatted in FAT 32. Maximum file size is 4GB. On reaching that it will close the file and start a new one. You won't see it but you will hear an audio miss for what is lost during the file change.
• Output: Roxio does a full render on output whether it to the same format or a different one so you really cannot get around the time factor. IF the output matches the source file it will use Smart Rendering and speed things up. But a general rule of thumb is 1 hour render for a 1 hour source.

As myguggi mentioned, that camcorder is overkill for your needs. Yes it does output in MP4. Also it uses exFAT for the SDXC card which I believe eliminates the 4GB limit...

I suggest you run some tests with your Canon. Set your camcorder quality to that of a SP. You may want to repeat this with LP too. Then record one hour of TV and load it into Roxio to see how it looks to you and file sizes. If you don't have to merge files, you should be able to load your MTS file into MyDVD and create chapters and burn. Likewise the same MTS could be output in VideoWave to make the MP4 or just use Handbrake for that purpose.

Let us know how this works out for you or what stumbling blocks you still have. Your project needs are a little different than what we are used to seeing, so maybe you can teach us a thing or two

Edited November 5, 2018 by Jim_Hardin

[REDWAGON]

Storage Media: if an SD card is used it will be formatted in FAT 32. Maximum file size is 4GB

 

And re-format your SSD card if used to "NTFS" not FAT32

[ECUMC]

8 hours ago, Jim_Hardin said:

ECUMC: You raise a lot of conflicting issues

The reasons you are having these are format, storage media and output.

• Format: the file size needed for the various formats is dependent on the resolution (720 X 480, 1920 X 1080, etc.) and the quality MBPS.
• Storage Media: if an SD card is used it will be formatted in FAT 32. Maximum file size is 4GB. On reaching that it will close the file and start a new one. You won't see it but you will hear an audio miss for what is lost during the file change.
• Output: Roxio does a full render on output whether it to the same format or a different one so you really cannot get around the time factor. IF the output matches the source file it will use Smart Rendering and speed things up. But a general rule of thumb is 1 hour render for a 1 hour source.

As myguggi mentioned, that camcorder is overkill for your needs. Yes it does output in MP4. Also it uses exFAT for the SDXC card which I believe eliminates the 4GB limit...

I suggest you run some tests with your Canon. Set your camcorder quality to that of a SP. You may want to repeat this with LP too. Then record one hour of TV and load it into Roxio to see how it looks to you and file sizes. If you don't have to merge files, you should be able to load your MTS file into MyDVD and create chapters and burn. Likewise the same MTS could be output in VideoWave to make the MP4 or just use Handbrake for that purpose.

Let us know how this works out for you or what stumbling blocks you still have. Your project needs are a little different than what we are used to seeing, so maybe you can teach us a thing or two

We have a JVC AVCHD camcorder. The Canon was a cheaper one I looked at to buy instead of the one linked, but it only records in AVCHD.  My understanding is that it has limitations in size (perhaps due to Fat32 I believe). I do keep the merged files (and right now at least the original AVCHD MTS files). I will have to see if I can put both files into VideoWave and do the chapters. I thought it would add a chapter or break where the two files were separated.  I will have to see if the current one will let me choose different quality on the camera level side. We still need one with the inputs for our sound system and the ability to zoom in from app 125 feet away (from a balcony).

6 hours ago, REDWAGON said:

Storage Media: if an SD card is used it will be formatted in FAT 32. Maximum file size is 4GB

 

And re-format your SSD card if used to "NTFS" not FAT32

I am not sure if that will work for the old or new cameras. I do for jump drives assuming I don't need to use on older computers.

[Jim_Hardin]

The Canon will not accept NTFS nor will it accept a card unless it initialized it. Thus we are stuck in FAT32, which is used for it’s internal RAM Drive as well.

The store clerk was mistaken, Sony is about the only camcorders that use mp4. The rest of the world use MTS for Hd Capture. (Sony developed MP4)

 Check your JVC, it will have lower quality setting. Try those with the tests I suggested. Do a short one first to make sure the quality will be acceptable for your purpose. Then do a long one, like you intend to use, and test the outcome.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Jim_Hardin

[karri]

Just to add on to Jim's comment about Sony.  I have the Sony AX100 which can record using the XAVCS format in an mp4 wrapper to SDXC cards  at 3840 x 2160 without having to merge files. The AX100 does not have xlr inputs, but there are adapters like the Beachtek or, also, Sony makes a newer pro version (Sony NX80) that does have xlr inputs.

The problem I ran into with the AX100 was that Roxio didn't like its UHD footage. It would play the video, but not the audio. That may have been corrected in the most recent Roxio versions but I haven't tried recently. You might be able to get around that, because you can set the AX100 to concurrently record "4K" (UHD) and 1280 x 720. IIRC, Roxio accepted the audio from the 1280 footage np. (I'm not sure how Roxio would handle video from the NX80)

Anyway, just to say if the Panasonic doesn't do what you want, there may be another option

Edited November 11, 2018 by karri
clarity

[Jim_Hardin]

Kari: the problem is that there are long recordings and the majority of SD cards that camcorders have to be in FAT32 format. And FAT32 has a 4GB limit on file size Hence the separate files that have to be connected. I am hoping that if he can get by with the lower resolution, he can record without reaching the 4GB limitation.

[karri]

Thanks Jim, I thought I'd add that since EMUMC mentioned buying a new camera anyway, I thought to just let him know that at least this one Sony and probably others (that do have the xlr inputs) can record without the time/size limitations to relatively inexpensive SDXC cards. Of course you know the technical stuff is way over my head so I'm probably totally missing the point!

[cdanteek]

On 11/11/2018 at 6:26 PM, karri said:

SDXC cards

exFAT has been adopted by the SD Card Association as the default file system for SDXC cards larger than 32 GB.

http://www.ntfs.com/ntfs_vs_fat.htm

[karri]

Thanks, cd, I flipped back through some archives and looks like one of my more longish videos from the AX100 is about an hour and a half and just at 34 GB. And with the concurrent recording feature, I was thinking the sermon's 1280 footage could be more easily be sent to dvd, and the 4K could be uploaded to Youtube. Still not sure about using Roxio for the 4K, though, and still need xlr input.

Also, from the help guide 

"The maximum continuous recording time of a movie is approximately 13 hours. "

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by karri