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Modifying backup to a CD disc.


john_d_miller

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I have a CD-R disk I made of picture and movie files and Word (.doc) pictures. I used Drag-to-Disc to get them on the CD-R. No problem.

 

However I quickly discovered I could only drag the actual files...if the files were in a folder and I dragged the folder, well it didn't drag. Nothing got transferred.

 

So now every file is arranged alphabetically and I need to know 2 things:

 

Let's say I am using my CD-RW drive to view my files. I can click File > New and a new folder is created. (I tried this and succeeded...but I'm suspecting the folder was only on my computer and not the CD.)

 

1. Can I rename it? I assume I could right click it and select 'rename' but will it create the change on my CD?

 

2. The 2nd. thing I need to know is: Assuming I can create and rename a new folder, can I now drag my files to it--and have that change occur on the CD?

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I'll bite on that hook!!!

 

Packet Writing makes optical media appear to behave as magnetic media. But for various reasons, it has proven to be very fragile. It fails with no warning and the disc becomes unreadable. When you are dealing with a 25 cent CD or a Dollar DVD it is not worth the time and effort to use this!

 

It is great for transferring files between 2 PCs when no other means exists to do so.

 

Oddly enough, most folks will blindly trust various backup programs but never, never trust a packet writer! Many of these backup programs use packet writing to do their job but no one ever questions it…

 

But comparing the cost of media with the stability of authoring (Classic), why bother?

 

Life of Media? That article was about as useful as a horn on a rat! He said nothing and skillfully deflected the question.

 

When I got into burning, about 1997 I read an article stating 100 years for R media and slightly less for RW media. Of course we will have to revisit those claims in 2097… But media manufacturing has changed since then.

 

I can't give you a specific number for life but unlike the clown at PC world I have had failures!

 

I have one CD-R of '97' vintage that is unreadable. – I keep it to test recovery software, none can read it…

 

I have some CD-RWs about 6 years old that are now failing as they come right off the original spindle.

 

I have had a 25 pack of DVD R's that burned great but the last 10 (2 years old) will not burn at all!

 

In the end, I have equal faith in the Hard Drives that I have removed and stored on my shelf.

 

For optical media, I re-burn my archives from time to and keep all of them.

==========

In response to James_Hardin's latest post: But I'd also be very interested in the opinions of others who might find themselves tempted to respond with their feelings/experiences.

 

 

You wrote in your first post to this thread:

 

"Packet Writing (Drag to Disc, InCD, DLA, et al) will produce media that is fully appendable and behaves like magnetic media as long as the media is not Finalized.

 

Its' drawback is that it is fragile and tends to fail without warning, leaving you with an unreadable disc."

 

And what you did, you noted, was to make copies from time to time of your discs as a safety factor.

 

OK. Let's suppose I use Drag-to-Disc to copy some files. (I like the convenience of Drag-to-Disc because when I run across a file on the internet I want to save, it's quicker and easier than Classic for dealing with just 1 file. If I wait till I get 8-10-20 such files and then use Classic, I run the risk of losing them before I save them. Well, there I have a choice of course. (I notice you have a good deal of faith in HDD magnetic media but I've had to do a clean install more than once.)

 

But let me ask you this; Let's suppose in 2-3 months I've filled a CD-R disc with saved pictures, using Drag-to-Disc. If I now use Classic to copy that disc to another CD-R would I be correct in figuring I've now translated the packet-written files into Classic optical media and that therefore my files would be considerably LESS likely to decay or become unreadable --because they'd no longer be in packet-written form?

 

And how would you respond to: "Do you feel there's a pretty good chance that a packet-written CD-R would be unlikely to fail before 6 months had passed?

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My $.02 . . .

 

I used packet writing for many years as a method to quickly and easily store files onto optical media for temporarily transporting said files to another computer. I always used rewritable media for this purpose (I do not believe I have ever formatted a cd-r media). The downside of this is occasionally the disc could not be read by the computer I wanted to move the files to either due to the capabilities of the cd drive in that computer, or the fact that for some reason my packet written disc had gotten corrupted. The mixture of drives that do and do not support "Mt. Rainier" technology (where media can be partially formatted and additional formatting performed as necessary vs. fully formatting the entire media) also lead to some issues when using media between cd-rw drives. My experiences convinced me that packet writing was ok for temporary storage/transfer of files, but not trustworthy for storage of files even temporarily if the files need to be kept permanently, mostly due to the structure of the formatted media becoming corrupt so readily and unpredictably at times.

 

I use multiple, large capacity hard drives (2 in my tower, plus a tray unit which lets me swap out a hard drive quickly and easily) for temporary storage of important files. My typical backup routine has me running a copy job from my primary storage folder on my primary drive to an old hard drive sitting in the tray unit - which then can be removed form the computer for safe storage. I also permanently store items (picture mostly) by burning them to cd-r as a standard data cd via Creator Classic.

 

 

These days, USB storage devices provide a convenient way to move files across computer platforms and the cost of high capacity usb thumb drives has become so low that it is a really attractive alternative to packet writing anyway. I would stay away from other types of storage such as zip drives, etc. as they are very unreliable (regardless of the op system being used) and limited in their storage capacity by today's standards anyway - which is probably why Iomega dropped the product line.

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Once you write to a CD- R, you cannot change anything on the CD-R. You can write a new copy of the file, but it won't change the original one.

 

I'd like to suggest that you not use Drag to Disk for long term storage of those files.

 

Instead, use Creator Classic. You can see what you're writing to the CD. You can 'import' previous sessions from a CD that you've got data on and ADD data ( movies, pictures, files, etc.)

 

Plus when you use Creator Classic, it can be read by Windows Explorer which means you can take it to another computer and use it easily.

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Once you write to a CD- R, you cannot change anything on the CD-R. You can write a new copy of the file, but it won't change the original one.

 

I'd like to suggest that you not use Drag to Disk for long term storage of those files.

 

Instead, use Creator Classic. You can see what you're writing to the CD. You can 'import' previous sessions from a CD that you've got data on and ADD data ( movies, pictures, files, etc.)

 

Plus when you use Creator Classic, it can be read by Windows Explorer which means you can take it to another computer and use it easily.

==============

NUTS:

 

You said what I was pretty sure a reply would say and I sure hear you. Well, we only call some of the shots in this life and can't have all we want or not without a price. But, darn it, it's was so quick and easy just to drag files to Drag-to-Disc!

 

Now if I were to write to a CD-RW disc then I could make modifications, right..like renaming folders and dragging loose files on the CD-RW to those folders?

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Yes. The RW stands for Read/WRITE. They have a limited life, but you can write to them for quite awhile.

 

It depends on how long you want to keep those files and how much you want to rely on a packet writing program like Drag To Disk. Some people have no problems and others report lost data.

 

I'm a bit paranoid about losing all my files, so I back up everything to CD-R's AND and external hard drive (plus I've got copies of some of my photos in a free online account.)

 

But everything depends on how you're using your data.

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Apparently you missed this post pinned to the top of the Forum -

http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?showtopic=12382

 

Lynn

 

Your note does not address his questions which concerned changing the information on a CD-R like you would change files on a hard drive.

 

That cannot be done because you can only write to a CD-R no matter which program you use.

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Let me attempt to clarify this…

 

The way optical media behaves is dependant on how the media was written. The type of media you use is completely irrelevant!

 

Packet Writing (Drag to Disc, InCD, DLA, et al) will produce media that is fully appendable and behaves like magnetic media as long as the media is not Finalized.

 

Its' drawback is that it is fragile and tends to fail without warning, leaving you with an unreadable disc.

 

Authoring (Classic or XP Burning) writing always leaves the files as Read Only, however…

 

If the Session was finalized but the Disc was not finalized, it can be appended.

 

With Sessions you can write new files, and delete or "overwrite" existing files.

 

Understand that disc space is never recovered so if you delete or overwrite, an existing file, the space it used is still there.

 

There is also an overhead cost of about 15mb for the first session and 10mb for each session thereafter. This is over and above any space that the files you are writing use.

 

There is also a 99 session limit! Of course by then you have used 1gb in overhead alone…

 

In the picture below I have a session disc in Classic with 2 files: an un-named zero byte file (mistake!) and a file called CTX.DAT.

 

In the next session (not pictured) I imported the files into Classic and deleted the CTX.DAT file.

 

In the 3rd session, I imported the files into Classic and added the 44MAG~1.DOC file.

 

(apologies – this is an 8.5 DVD+R DL disc I wrecked and it is using the ISO9660 file system, hence the 8.3 filename limitations. Since the wreck, it has become a play disc for me)

 

I hope this does not confuse John more than he was when he came here! Optical media is a different form of storing data. If you understand that there is only one similarity between optical media and magnetic media it will get easier. – They are both Round!

post-39-1164723271.jpg

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Your note does not address his questions which concerned changing the information on a CD-R like you would change files on a hard drive.

 

That cannot be done because you can only write to a CD-R no matter which program you use.

 

I was referring to

Now if I were to write to a CD-RW disc then I could make modifications, right..like renaming folders and dragging loose files on the CD-RW to those folders?

 

There is absolutely NO difference in writing Sessions (such as Creator Classic, or the built-in WinXP buring) to R or RW media. If you delete something you do NOT get the space back with RW any more than R media - you merely remove the item from the TOC (Table of Contents) so you can't find it without a recovery program. The difference is you can erase the ENTIRE RW disc and start over.

 

Asn Digital Guru Brendon has pointed out to me, the rules are different if the disc is formatted for Packet-Writing. However, after permantly losing the 80% of the files on the Packet-Written CD-RW that weren't also on the Hard Drive, I have been convinced that my software guru was correct when she warned me formatting the disc was NOT a good idea and I might lose the data. Packet-Writing can be very fussy about being read with the exact same combination of Operating System and program Version that wrote it, and can fail for any reason or none at all.

 

I had no problem moving folders (with contents) from my Zip discs to CD-R, but on that computer I was using the Sessions applicatiaon of the program that came with the burner, to wit, Nero. I would expect it to be the same with Creator Classic, tho.

 

If OP is looking for a "great-big floppy-disc", I would recommend a Flash drive (aka Jump / Thumb / Pen / Keychain drive).

 

Lynn

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In the next session (not pictured) I imported the files into Classic and deleted the CTX.DAT file.

 

Now that you mention it - there are two files (one .xls and the other .doc) I modify a couple times a month, and then put the new one on the backup (Sessions-based) CD-R. I "delete" the former one and add the new one - it doesn't get back any space, and costs the space of the new version plus 10 or 15MB for setup, but provides a backup.

 

Lynn

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Thank you both for expanding on the explanation of how writing to a CD-R and CD-RW works.

 

I did understand all those points, but it sounded to me like I was answering the questions of someone who wasn't familiar with writing to CDs, so I was trying to keep the explanation simple.

 

However, you still cannot right click on a name on a CD-R and rename the file. (question 1)

 

The second question was about Drag to Disk, which I personally don't recommend. So I recommended Creator Classic.

 

I personally wouldn't recommend a jump drive for long term storage. (Too darned easy to lose them and I have no personal knowledge of their reliability.)

 

I would recommend a second hard drive, an external hard drive and/or one of the free online storage sites for files that you want to keep as well as CD/DVD R's.

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Thank you both for expanding on the explanation of how writing to a CD-R and CD-RW works.

 

I did understand all those points, but it sounded to me like I was answering the questions of someone who wasn't familiar with writing to CDs, so I was trying to keep the explanation simple.

 

However, you still cannot right click on a name on a CD-R and rename the file. (question 1)

 

The second question was about Drag to Disk, which I personally don't recommend. So I recommended Creator Classic.

 

I personally wouldn't recommend a jump drive for long term storage. (Too darned easy to lose them and I have no personal knowledge of their reliability.)

 

I would recommend a second hard drive, an external hard drive and/or one of the free online storage sites for files that you want to keep as well as CD/DVD R's.

I would agree for long-term storage. I was assuming it was an in-progress thing, "like a floppy".

 

For what it's worth, when I got my first Flash drive, I phoned the Seattle Central Community College computer lab, and they said they were having far fewer problems with Flash drives than floppies or Zip drives. (I suspect it might have to do with WinXP's finnicky attitude toward removing media - it will eat it otherwise, but apparently it can't pull that trick with Flash drives. I detest WinXP.)

 

Lynn

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I'll bite on that hook!!!

 

Packet Writing makes optical media appear to behave as magnetic media. But for various reasons, it has proven to be very fragile. It fails with no warning and the disc becomes unreadable. When you are dealing with a 25 cent CD or a Dollar DVD it is not worth the time and effort to use this!

 

It is great for transferring files between 2 PCs when no other means exists to do so.

 

Oddly enough, most folks will blindly trust various backup programs but never, never trust a packet writer! Many of these backup programs use packet writing to do their job but no one ever questions it…

 

But comparing the cost of media with the stability of authoring (Classic), why bother?

 

Life of Media? That article was about as useful as a horn on a rat! He said nothing and skillfully deflected the question.

 

When I got into burning, about 1997 I read an article stating 100 years for R media and slightly less for RW media. Of course we will have to revisit those claims in 2097… But media manufacturing has changed since then.

 

I can't give you a specific number for life but unlike the clown at PC world I have had failures!

 

I have one CD-R of '97' vintage that is unreadable. – I keep it to test recovery software, none can read it…

 

I have some CD-RWs about 6 years old that are now failing as they come right off the original spindle.

 

I have had a 25 pack of DVD R's that burned great but the last 10 (2 years old) will not burn at all!

 

In the end, I have equal faith in the Hard Drives that I have removed and stored on my shelf.

 

For optical media, I re-burn my archives from time to and keep all of them.

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In Classic, yes you can rename a file and write it to a new Session after you import the contents.

 

But the same rules about overhead apply.

 

The D2D warnings were present in my long winded reply.

 

There is the possibility of keeping things too simple.

 

Optical media is not magnetic media and operates with a completely different set of standards. By keeping it simple it doesn't force one to learn the differences therefore you are perpetrating the misconceptions… Now that is something to ponder!

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. By keeping it simple it doesn't force one to learn the differences therefore you are perpetrating the misconceptions… Now that is something to ponder!

 

I beg to differ. The KISS principle has worked quite well for me.

 

I appreciate your explanation and I hope the poster learned something from the discussion.

 

CD-R's are so darned cheap and the Creator Classic program is so user friendly in letting people know what options are available, that the user shouldn't have any problem storing his files on CD-Rs.

 

I recommend the Creator Classic\ Help\ Tutorial as a good way to get started.

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I beg to differ. The KISS principle has worked quite well for me.

 

I appreciate your explanation and I hope the poster learned something from the discussion.

 

CD-R's are so darned cheap and the Creator Classic program is so user friendly in letting people know what options are available, that the user shouldn't have any problem storing his files on CD-Rs.

 

I recommend the Creator Classic\ Help\ Tutorial as a good way to get started.

I respect your position, ml, but based on my personal experience, I feel info on what Packet-Writing is NOT should be offered, as it was offered to me.

 

And then the person has the option to do what I did anyway - learn the hard way. One remembers better afterward. :)

 

Lynn

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I respect your position, ml, but based on my personal experience, I feel info on what Packet-Writing is NOT should be offered, as it was offered to me.

 

And then the person has the option to do what I did anyway - learn the hard way. One remembers better afterward. :)

 

Lynn

In my first reply, I recommended that he use Creator Classic.

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Well, my thanks to everyone for their input. I've scanned the replies...will reread and study them more soon.

 

I would appreciate it, however, if someone would spell out the difference between what packet writing is/does (as in Drag to Disc) and what Easy Media Classic is/does re copying files to a CD-R or CD-RW. Or refer me to a link that explains the difference.

 

I ran across an article on Answer Line (at PCWorld) where contributing editor Lincoln Specter makes some points about CD life length - 2nd. article down at http://www.pcworld.com/columnist/id,1/columnist.html. But I don't suppose it's very original. My bottom line impression was that some CDs at least have not been around for enough years for us to say with certainty how long they will last. I suppose as with so many things in life and with computer stuff, there are many, many variables.

 

Hope you don't have to type the link into a web browser to access the site; i.e. I hope the symbols etc. worked.

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