Re-Writable DVDs

[Vulgan]

I just began using some DVD RW's.

 

In the past I was told that when it came to CD RW's, it was fine to use them for data. But if you used them for music, the audio would bleed through if re-wrote over a few times.

 

Does anything similar happen to the RW DVD's? I have already finalized a DVD and then re-formatted it to record something else on it and I'm planning on doing it again today. But I do not know if the video quality worsens after each format. Sort of like VHS and cassette tapes.

 

These are home movies and I want to preserve the best quality I can.

[rich86]

rich86,

Can't find the 16x -R Memorex I tested but it was a Ritek too. Like this Dual Layer +R Memorex!

 

CD-DVD Speed: Disc Info

Basic Information

Disc type: : DVD+R DL

Book Type : DVD+R DL

Manufacturer: : Ritek

MID : RITEK D01 (001)

Write speeds: : 2.4 X

Blank Capacity : 7.96 GB

: 8152 MB

: 8547993600 bytes

Extended Information

Layers : 2

Layer break : 3.98 GB

Write strategies : n/a

Disc Status : Empty

Raw Data

Physical Format Information (00h)

0000 - E1 0F 32 10 00 03 00 00 00 FC FF FF 00 22 D7 FF - ..2.........."..

0010 - 00 00 00 52 49 54 45 4B 00 00 00 44 30 31 01 40 - ...RITEK...D01.@

0020 - 25 25 37 0C 00 28 64 00 28 64 20 1F 0C 0C 14 14 - %%7..(d.(d......

0030 - 02 01 01 20 00 20 1F 0C 0C 14 14 02 01 01 20 00 - ................

 

My friend hasn't had any trouble with them, yet.

 

cdanteek

 

I am so hesitant to recommend media these days, because how well they work seems to have as much to do with what burner someone is using and how up to date their firmware is than the media itself. Sometimes it seems clear that providing/not providing firmware updates is the newest way for manufacturers to impose built-in obsolescence in computer dvd burners.

 

I am currenty using a Benq1620 - which is a terrific burner and handles most any media you shove inside it just fine. I also do not ever burn at maximum speeds, however. I picked up a Benq 1650 burner to use in the new tower I hope to have time to assemble in January. I chose that one because it still uses the same basic chipset as the 1620 (Benq's later drive - the 1670 - switches to a Panasonic chipset for some bizarre reason) and the 1650 actually has the ability to "learn" wrte strategies for new media on its own. I have no idea how well that works - but I couldn't resist trying it.

 

My first dvd burner was a Sony model 500. It worked really well with Ritek G04 media. But it cannot handle Ritek G05 media at all. Sony simply could not be bothered to offer firmware updates to handle newer media (mind you, we are talking about a 4 times burner, that was never updated to handle even 8x media!). I expect this is because the model 500 was the last Sony dvd burner actually made by Sony. All models after that one are actually oem's from other manufacturers - including Benq. So, I replaced my Sony 500 - and vowed to never buy a Sony dvd burner again. My positive experiences with my Benq burner have proven my decision to be the right one.

 

For the longest time folks swore by Ritek media. Then it started getting some criticisms - probably due to some manufacturing issues. However, I have never heard of anyone complaining about the quality of TY or Verbatim media. But I've noticed Verbatim media is frequently actually made in Taiwan these days also. Personally, I avoid Memorex for any media, have no issues with using media made in Taiwan, and have had good experiences with inkjet printable TDK dvd media (actually CMC made media) from Costco. Another good source of media is meritline.com.

[grandpabruce]

Rich, you are right about being hesitant to recommend media. Two years ago, I used nothing but Ridata (Ritek) and never had a coaster. The last batch of 50 Ridata discs that I bought, were 20% total failure, and the bulk had read errors.

 

In the past year of so, I used nothing but Verbatims, and I have not had one coaster or one disc with read errors. I am sure that that could change, but until then, I will stick with what is good.

 

The only thing that I can say is, if the manufacturer of the discs shows as CMC MAG *, I wouldn't use it.

[cdanteek]

rich86,

I bought a Sony 810A-R that is a BenQ 1650 and is that today after I reflashed her to that. Couldn't find the 1650! The Sony 810A is a BenQ 1640. BenQ 1650 with Qsuite Solid Burn has the ability to "learn" write strategies for new media on its own. Same same Plextor Autostrategy, first appeared in the 716A. Works fine in the Sony turned BenQ.

I wanted a extra scanning drive for a new pc. Seems the new burners with different chip sets like the BenQ 1670 and DVD Ram, don't do quality scanning in CDDVDSpeed.

 

I myself have had bad Verbatim media bought at Best Buy. I pretty much buy only TY anymore, from Supermediastore.com or rima.com.

 

cdanteek

[rich86]

rich86,

I bought a Sony 810A-R that is a BenQ 1650 and is that today after I reflashed her to that. Couldn't find the 1650! The Sony 810A is a BenQ 1640. BenQ 1650 with Qsuite Solid Burn has the ability to "learn" write strategies for new media on its own. Same same Plextor Autostrategy, first appeared in the 716A. Works fine in the Sony turned BenQ.

I wanted a extra scanning drive for a new pc. Seems the new burners with different chip sets like the BenQ 1670 and DVD Ram, don't do quality scanning in CDDVDSpeed.

 

I myself have had bad Verbatim media bought at Best Buy. I pretty much buy only TY anymore, from Supermediastore.com or rima.com.

 

cdanteek

 

The dvd burner I bought was a "Hi-Val" - after I confirmed it was really a Benq 1650 inside the box - $30 after rebate.

You surely can't go wrong with TY media based on everything I've read. However, I burn that 16x TDK DVD+R inkjet printable media (mfg = CMC) all the time with no problems. The burner sets booktype to DVD-Rom and compatibility across players and drives is excellent. With Costco's annual "buy 1 get one free" coupon on this stuff, it works out to about $.20 per disk - can't hardly go wrong.

[Vulgan]

Thanks! That was going to be my next question. I was wondering if those printers might damage a printable disc. I might invest in one of those in the future.

 

I agree about Memorex. I bought a 100 case of DVD-Rs and most of them would not work with my stand alone DVD recorder. Most of them work in my Computer but not 100%. So I'll try another brand next. Might cost a little more but what is the price for agravation these days?

[cdanteek]

So I'll try another brand next. Might cost a little more but what is the price for agravation these days?

 

http://www.supermediastore.com/taiyo-yuden...us-r-media.html

 

http://www.supermediastore.com/taiyo-yuden...vd-r-media.html

 

cdanteek

[cdanteek]

I am using is from Ritek (meritline.com) and it also has been satisfactory so far.

 

rich86,

Can't find the 16x -R Memorex I tested but it was a Ritek too. Like this Dual Layer +R Memorex!

 

CD-DVD Speed: Disc Info

Basic Information

Disc type: : DVD+R DL

Book Type : DVD+R DL

Manufacturer: : Ritek

MID : RITEK D01 (001)

Write speeds: : 2.4 X

Blank Capacity : 7.96 GB

: 8152 MB

: 8547993600 bytes

Extended Information

Layers : 2

Layer break : 3.98 GB

Write strategies : n/a

Disc Status : Empty

Raw Data

Physical Format Information (00h)

0000 - E1 0F 32 10 00 03 00 00 00 FC FF FF 00 22 D7 FF - ..2.........."..

0010 - 00 00 00 52 49 54 45 4B 00 00 00 44 30 31 01 40 - ...RITEK...D01.@

0020 - 25 25 37 0C 00 28 64 00 28 64 20 1F 0C 0C 14 14 - %%7..(d.(d......

0030 - 02 01 01 20 00 20 1F 0C 0C 14 14 02 01 01 20 00 - ................

 

My friend hasn't had any trouble with them, yet.

 

cdanteek

[Vulgan]

Thanks for the report Rich.

Yes, I am guilty of not using "Name" brands when It came to my CD-R media. I think they are called Prodisc? Or they were the brand of the store I bought them from. COMP USA. But almost every one of them had a CD label glued onto them.

[cdanteek]

These are home movies and I want to preserve the best quality I can.

 

Formating like D2D?

Use -R or + R to preserve, not RW media!

 

cdanteek

[Beerman]

I just began using some DVD RW's.

 

In the past I was told that when it came to CD RW's, it was fine to use them for data. But if you used them for music, the audio would bleed through if re-wrote over a few times.

 

Does anything similar happen to the RW DVD's? I have already finalized a DVD and then re-formatted it to record something else on it and I'm planning on doing it again today. But I do not know if the video quality worsens after each format. Sort of like VHS and cassette tapes.

 

These are home movies and I want to preserve the best quality I can.

I have a few DVD RW's I've used for years. Some say they last for over 1000 uses but I doubt that. I certainly wouldn't trust them to anything you need to save. And, there are some dvd players that just don't like them and occassionally choke on them. For me, they either work or don't. I've not seen any degradation of video quality after many uses.

[lynn98109]

This (http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?showtopic=12382) is pinned on the EMC 7 Data Forum - no point in having it posted EVERYWHERE - and I think addresses your question.

 

There is no way I'd ever again use either RW media or formatting for anything I want to KEEP.

 

Lynn

[Vulgan]

Before I got a DVD recorder in my computer, I bought a DVD recorder for my home theater. I was recording home movies onto DVD Rewrittables for future editing. I recently viewed them and one became corrupt. So I lost everything on it. I'm not even exactly sure what was on it but I do know that it was full.

 

So yes, I would not trust them for important videos anymore. I just use them to transfer videos from my TV DVD recorder to my computer. But I'll even stop doing that if you get less transfer quality than with a once write disc.

[rich86]

Thanks for the report Rich.

Yes, I am guilty of not using "Name" brands when It came to my CD-R media. I think they are called Prodisc? Or they were the brand of the store I bought them from. COMP USA. But almost every one of them had a CD label glued onto them.

 

So far, I have done ok with inkjet printable media (where the top surface of the media is able to accept inkjet printing in specially made printers such as my Epson R320). But I would steer clear of applying adhesive labels to media if at all possible.

 

Also, the brand name on the media package very often means very little, as these companies purchase media in bulk from oem suppliers around the world (frequently in Taiwan). Memorex has a pretty poor reputation mostly because you never know what you are getting or what level of quality is in the package.

 

I've done well with TDK media, even thought they also purchase from a number of manufacturers. The current batch of inkjet printable cd-r media I am using is from Ritek (meritline.com) and it also has been satisfactory so far.

[cdanteek]

But I'll even stop doing that if you get less transfer quality than with a once write disc.

 

If it writes it without errors they are the same as write once media, like Paul said.

 

cdanteek

[tbrewst]

I use them for that same purpose Vulgan and haven't seen a difference as of yet.

[lynn98109]

It's just that you realize you have a problem AFTER it's too late.

 

Lynn

[Vulgan]

Very true Lynn. I've been using CD-Rs since 1997 and most of them have come down with disc rot.

Home made recordable Discs are definately NOT a permident media.

 

Day to day home recordings are fine to transfer using Re Writtable DVDs. But special occasions are better for the single write discs. I would never think of using a used VHS tape to record a wedding. But I would if I was recording myself cooking eggs in the morning. I need to apply this line of thinking to my recordable discs.

[golinux]

I use them for that same purpose Vulgan and haven't seen a difference as of yet.

Ditto. If one fails, it's no biggie as I am not using them for critical data and can just rewrite another disk.

[grandpabruce]

The dvd burner I bought was a "Hi-Val" - after I confirmed it was really a Benq 1650 inside the box - $30 after rebate.

You surely can't go wrong with TY media based on everything I've read. However, I burn that 16x TDK DVD+R inkjet printable media (mfg = CMC) all the time with no problems. The burner sets booktype to DVD-Rom and compatibility across players and drives is excellent. With Costco's annual "buy 1 get one free" coupon on this stuff, it works out to about $.20 per disk - can't hardly go wrong.

 

Rich, check one of those CMC Mag discs for read errors, a few months after you burn them. I had some that had read errors after 3 weeks, but that was about 2-1/2 years ago, which is the last time I used CMC MAG discs. They may have improved on their manufacturing process.

 

When I was In Idaho, back in May, I got my son a Pioneer 111D? burner. With the firmware available at that time, the only discs that burned without errors were the TDK discs, which were CMC MAGS. The Verbatims I got for him, had read errors. Go figure.

[Vulgan]

Of Course after I made my post I've discovered one of my Drag To Disc DVD-R's will not read anymore. It will only play in the non recordable DVD drive but will not copy the data to my hard drive. Any program that tries to copy it freezes.

[lynn98109]

Of Course after I made my post I've discovered one of my Drag To Disc DVD-R's will not read anymore. It will only play in the non recordable DVD drive but will not copy the data to my hard drive. Any program that tries to copy it freezes.

By "copy" are you referring to dragging the file to yr Hard Drive, or are you talking making a copy (such as an .ISO file) to the Hard Drive?

 

Lynn

[Vulgan]

Just drag to copy to my hard drive. Any program that I tried to copy the disc has stopped responding.

[Guest ml]

These are home movies and I want to preserve the best quality I can.

 

For home movies that you want to preserve in the best quality.....

 

Import the video in Best quality, use the Best quality settings throughout your production,

and burn to a + or - R DVD.

 

You might also want to invest in a second internal or external hard drive as backup storage for those movies.

 

DVDs are not supposed to fail after only a few months, but some do. You don't want to rely on them for your only copy of the home movies.

[rich86]

Rich, check one of those CMC Mag discs for read errors, a few months after you burn them.

 

So far - no issues . . . . time will tell - with all burned media, I expect.

[rich86]

Use & Longevity of media - some thoughts and experiences

 

I've been using and burning to optical media for many years - starting with a HP 4x max cd burner under Windows 98 and Adaptec's ECDC version 3.x. I've never had a major problem with reliability regarding those burned optical media over the years. But I have not gone into a quality control check of everything either, so who knows what lurks inside those cd cases. Following is a summary of the experiences I've had.

 

All media: Long term reliability is very much impacted by the quality of the blank media selected in the first place, the quality of the burner and program used to write it, and the skills/judgements employed by the person sitting between the chair back and the keyboard at the time. Proper usage and storage is also a key factor. Optical media is not indestructible. They scratch laying around outside of a protective case. They get dirty and hard to read with fingerprints, cola and melted chocolate on them. They get rather finicky after sitting on the dashboard of a car in the summer sun for a while. They also can get downright unfriendly after having a label glued to the non-data side for a period of time. Much discussion has gone on regarding packet writing. I am part of the gang who considers packet writing just too finicky to be trusted with long term storage of anything important. For whatever reason, it seems to lose its way on any particular media and decide it can no longer recognize what files are where on the disc. I rarely use packet writing any more - and when I do it is strictly on rewritable media for moving files from one computer to another.

 

CD-R Media: this media is very reliable if the "All media" comments above are taken seriously. The only cd-r's I've had trouble with after a period of time have been those that have a printed disc label glued to the top. I have never, nor will I ever, "format" a cd-r media for use with packet writing.

 

CD-RW Media: I have cd-rw media that I have been using over and over and over (sound like the battery bunny rabbit yet?) for years. They most assuredly wear out, but it takes a while. I use this type media strictly for temporary storage and use and testing of things anyway. I cannot tell you what the maximum experience I have in erasing and reusing cd-rw media, because I have not kept track. But I can tell you that 90+% of the very first low speed ones I purchased are still hanging around and in use. I have never heard of or experienced anything remotely like the "print-through" sometimes experienced with magnetic tape media recording, where music from a previous recording or other channels or other part of a tape can be heard in the background. When digital data is erased and the space re-recorded on rewritable digital media, the old "music" represented digitally is gone. The main problem using cd-rw media for music is that many cd players cannot read the media itself at all.

 

DVD-R or +R media: I consider this to be very reliable media, although less so than cd-r media. I have had DVD media go corrupt after a period of time. In my case, it seems to have been related specifically to the type and brand of media used (a bad batch of Ritek DVD-R G04 media). It burned just fine with no indications of problems, but turned unreadable within a couple of months. DVD media is very subject to dye types used and quality control in the manufacturing process, and the write strategy employed in the firmware of the dvd burner used. The best you can do is stick to media brands and types you know work well with your burner, and keep your firmware in the drive updated. I rely on videohelp.com to learn what others have experienced regarding what media has worked well in any particular device as an initial guide. Applying an adhesive disc label to burned dvd media is a very risky thing to do. The density of the data is great enough that an adhesive label can cause problems very quickly.

 

DVD-RW and DVD+RW media: I have a supply of these that I have been using over and over and over since I got my first dvd burner (a 4x burner). They seem to be about as reliable as cd-rw media is. They do wear out, and they are not as compatible across drives and dvd players as +R or -R media. Once again, I never use them for permanent storage of anything.

 

I guess nothing is perfect, but what we have to use today sure beats open reel tapes, 8 tracks, cassettes, 5 1/4" and 3 1/2" floppies, etc. of the not so distant past. Does anyone remember trying to recover data off a cassette tape recorded via a Tandy TRS-80 or Atari 400/800 personal computer? Not a terribly productive experience . . . .