Toast 8 EyeTV Encoding speed

[alecchin]

Hi,

 

Not sure if anybodies got Toast 8 yet but wondered if any users with EyeTV have tried creating a DVD from an EyeTV recording and whether it's painful endcoding speed had got any faster.

 

It seemed a general issue with many users of the forum, where EyeTV correctly formatted recordings would be re-encoded by Toast even when told not to or either take a very long time to encode.

 

Elgato seem to blame it on Toast and Roxio seem to blame it on EyTV and as far as I could tell it never seemed to get solved since Toast version 6 onwards.

 

If anybody has tested this please let me know as this is the only problem I have with Toast and if it's fixed, it makes EyeTV and Toast the best packages to turn your Mac into a true multimedia center.

 

Thanks.

 

A

[freshburn]

The content is bring re-encoded because it is not DVD compliant. It is slow because you have a very slow G4 Mac.

[eyetv]

Actually, I have a Dual 2.5 PPC G5 Desktop, with 4 gigs of ram

 

- the stream settings for the captured Film4 appear to comply to the guidleines posted in this thread.....so I'm not exactly underpowered.

 

 

Only had this thing a day - so still testing.

[gesplus]

Hi,

 

Not sure if anybodies got Toast 8 yet but wondered if any users with EyeTV have tried creating a DVD from an EyeTV recording and whether it's painful endcoding speed had got any faster.

 

It seemed a general issue with many users of the forum, where EyeTV correctly formatted recordings would be re-encoded by Toast even when told not to or either take a very long time to encode.

 

Elgato seem to blame it on Toast and Roxio seem to blame it on EyTV and as far as I could tell it never seemed to get solved since Toast version 6 onwards.

 

If anybody has tested this please let me know as this is the only problem I have with Toast and if it's fixed, it makes EyeTV and Toast the best packages to turn your Mac into a true multimedia center.

 

Thanks.

 

A

I know what problem you are talking about. Instead of just multiplexing Toast needs to encode first. I have the same problem sometimes. For me it happens on stuff that has been edited or not. Most of the time taking a bit off the beginning and end will fix it, sometimes it won't though. My suspicion is that it's in EyeTV and not Toast since editing it will usually fix it.

 

Everything I have in EyeTV now works okay, when I run across another recording that wants to encode first I'll try it in Toast 8 and post the results here. I don't know when it could happen, it may be a few weeks since it happens so randomly. It has happened less and less over the last few months but I've also kept upgrading EyeTV 2 and Toast 7.

 

That is so annoying!

 

I just recorded a 2 hour film on UK's Film4, edited the ads out, but can't get Toast to stop encoding it prior to a burn.

 

After a quick test, It seems that if you crop out ads from recording (Film4), then try to burn direct in toast, it forces it to rencode.

 

I take it you're trying it in Toast 8? If not you can email me a 5-8M clip I can have someone try in 8.

 

In my case it would even happen if I didn't edit BTW, and sometimes editing would fix it.

[freshburn]

Sorry, the other user had a G4 Mac Mini. Dual G5 should be fast.

 

If you have the EyeTV 410, it just records the raw mpeg stream from the broadcaster which are not DVD compliant. The file must be 720x480 with a bit rate of less than 9 Mbps and 25fps. If not, the files is transcoded to DVD format. This takes some time and there is nothing that can be done.

[eyetv]

I know what problem you are talking about. Instead of just multiplexing Toast needs to encode first. I have the same problem sometimes. For me it happens on stuff that has been edited or not. Most of the time taking a bit off the beginning and end will fix it, sometimes it won't though. My suspicion is that it's in EyeTV and not Toast since editing it will usually fix it.

 

Everything I have in EyeTV now works okay, when I run across another recording that wants to encode first I'll try it in Toast 8 and post the results here. I don't know when it could happen, it may be a few weeks since it happens so randomly. It has happened less and less over the last few months but I've also kept upgrading EyeTV 2 and Toast 7.

I take it you're trying it in Toast 8? If not you can email me a 5-8M clip I can have someone try in 8.

 

In my case it would even happen if I didn't edit BTW, and sometimes editing would fix it.

 

 

Thanks for that - I'll give it a go!

[tsantee]

Yes, I'm in the UK and looking at the specs it seems I have no control I can only convert it using the different format options all of which still re-encode when used with Toast 7, which is taking hours.

 

I'd like to use this function alot if I could get the time right down but the time is making it a bit useless.

 

Thanks.

 

A

In order for video DVDs to work reliably in DVD players the video must meet certain encoding specifications. These are described Here.

 

The encoded video your EyeTV is capturing are out-of-spec. When Toast sees this is re-encodes the video so it can be played. Sometimes there are out-of-spec formats that Toast will allow if you choose Never Re-encode in the custom encoder settings. But if your EyeTV files still get re-encoded by Toast then it means they will not work on a DVD player unless they get re-encoded.

[gesplus]

I sent you a PM with the email address to send the clip to.

[tsantee]

I just made a video DVD from Toast 8 (and the latest EyeTV software) and it worked like a charm. No re-encoding. I especially appreciate the title information being transferred to the menu. Always use the Toast Media Browser to access your EyeTV files. The browser now includes a preview window for nearly any kind of file. When clicking preview with an EyeTV file the EyeTV video playback window launches.

[alecchin]

Thanks for the info.

 

Any rough ideas on the difference in speed, for example say I have a one hour EyeTV recording I want to turn into a DVD, how long would it take to format from pushing the Toast burn button to it ejecting a working DVD?

 

At present I've given up trying with Toast 7 as 1 hour of EyeTV takes and hour if not more.

 

A

[tsantee]

Thanks for the info.

 

Any rough ideas on the difference in speed, for example say I have a one hour EyeTV recording I want to turn into a DVD, how long would it take to format from pushing the Toast burn button to it ejecting a working DVD?

 

At present I've given up trying with Toast 7 as 1 hour of EyeTV takes and hour if not more.

 

A

It takes a few minutes. Toast first multiplexes the files which, depending on the speed of your Mac, may take less than a minute or maybe a couple minutes, then it starts burning the disc. Depending on the speed of your drive and media a one-hour video recorded by EyeTV at the standard setting (fits 2 hours per disc) may take five to 10 minutes.

 

I don't know why Toast 8 would be any faster at doing this than Toast 7. It's the same process. I also just got my EyeTV 250 this weekend so I haven't tried burning a video DVD using Toast 7. It shouldn't need to re-encode either. Which EyeTV do you own and what recording settings with it are you using?

[alecchin]

Hi,

 

I've got a 410. The settings for recording are setup by the network provider for the stations so I have no control, that's why I thought Toast might need to re-encode it and why it took so long. After getting EyeTV 2.0 to export as a Streaming Program (which I noticed you mention in another discussion) and various other formats it still took hours and re-encoded it no matter if I told it not to.

 

I'm using it on a G4 Mac Mini 1.3Mhz which I think is pretty good so would have expected it to take minutes rather then hours.

 

A

[tsantee]

Hi,

 

I've got a 410. The settings for recording are setup by the network provider for the stations so I have no control, that's why I thought Toast might need to re-encode it and why it took so long. After getting EyeTV 2.0 to export as a Streaming Program (which I noticed you mention in another discussion) and various other formats it still took hours and re-encoded it no matter if I told it not to.

 

I'm using it on a G4 Mac Mini 1.3Mhz which I think is pretty good so would have expected it to take minutes rather then hours.

 

A

So your EyeTV is capturing the actual video stream rather than encoding its own MPEGs. I'll look into this later today. Got to run.

[alecchin]

Yes, I'm in the UK and looking at the specs it seems I have no control I can only convert it using the different format options all of which still re-encode when used with Toast 7, which is taking hours.

 

I'd like to use this function alot if I could get the time right down but the time is making it a bit useless.

 

Thanks.

 

A

[BigJD]

Hi Guys.... I recently got the EyeTV Hybrid. I can only record to mp1 (VCD format) on my G4 PB. You need Intel or G5 to record straight to mp2 for DVD quality. is there any other choice using Toast? I just realized Toast allows some EyeTV interaction, but does that have anything to do with actual recording? Or only my finished EyeTV recording which I am limited to mpg1... in which I would imagine Toast would just re-convert the mpg1 to mpg2 for a DVD.... it would be nice to record to mpg2 directly. The 250 & others do that because they have the converter built in, the Hybrid relies on software. Other software does it or converts, they should have made the Hybrid allow it. I am sure my machine is well capable of it....

 

Oh well, any insight on this will help, Toast 8 & EyeTV latest software.

 

Thanx, JD

[Greg Meach]

Hi Guys.... I recently got the EyeTV Hybrid. I can only record to mp1 (VCD format) on my G4 PB. You need Intel or G5 to record straight to mp2 for DVD quality. is there any other choice using Toast? I just realized Toast allows some EyeTV interaction, but does that have anything to do with actual recording? Or only my finished EyeTV recording which I am limited to mpg1... in which I would imagine Toast would just re-convert the mpg1 to mpg2 for a DVD.... it would be nice to record to mpg2 directly. The 250 & others do that because they have the converter built in, the Hybrid relies on software. Other software does it or converts, they should have made the Hybrid allow it. I am sure my machine is well capable of it....

 

Oh well, any insight on this will help, Toast 8 & EyeTV latest software.

 

Thanx, JD

-> this is correct "Or only my finished EyeTV recording which I am limited to mpg1..."

 

You've discovered "the" main reason to purchase the EyeTV 250, to record in MPG2.

:-(

 

I am still using an EyeTV 200 (Firewire device) and love it!

 

Hi,

 

I've got a 410. The settings for recording are setup by the network provider for the stations so I have no control, that's why I thought Toast might need to re-encode it and why it took so long. After getting EyeTV 2.0 to export as a Streaming Program (which I noticed you mention in another discussion) and various other formats it still took hours and re-encoded it no matter if I told it not to.

 

I'm using it on a G4 Mac Mini 1.3Mhz which I think is pretty good so would have expected it to take minutes rather then hours.

 

A

 

I think you've hit on the difference, your 410 records DTT which I'm guessing is similar to HD. To allow this content to be recorded onto a DVD format, it has to be converted to MPG2 format (compressed). If you really can't change any settings on your device when you record shows in EyeTV I don't think you have any options. You'll have to wait for Toast 9.x to allow you to make an HD DVD which probably won't help either... sorry, now I'm just rambling...

 

[Atlantic]

In order for video DVDs to work reliably in DVD players the video must meet certain encoding specifications. These are described Here.

 

The encoded video your EyeTV is capturing are out-of-spec. When Toast sees this is re-encodes the video so it can be played. Sometimes there are out-of-spec formats that Toast will allow if you choose Never Re-encode in the custom encoder settings. But if your EyeTV files still get re-encoded by Toast then it means they will not work on a DVD player unless they get re-encoded.

 

Most of the digital broadcasts in the UK are MPEG2. The main reason they need re-encoding for DVD is due to the picture broadcast size. There are three standard sizes: 4:3, 16:9 and 14:9. A programme in 14:9 will not meet the standards for a DVD, but unfortunately there are quite a lot of these. If you take the raw streams from EyeTV, you can just burn these to a disk and play them back using VLC on any computer. This will also read the subtitle files if you record these, too. It will not be playable on a DVD, though.

[eyetv]

Most of the digital broadcasts in the UK are MPEG2. The main reason they need re-encoding for DVD is due to the picture broadcast size. There are three standard sizes: 4:3, 16:9 and 14:9. A programme in 14:9 will not meet the standards for a DVD, but unfortunately there are quite a lot of these. If you take the raw streams from EyeTV, you can just burn these to a disk and play them back using VLC on any computer. This will also read the subtitle files if you record these, too. It will not be playable on a DVD, though.

 

 

That is so annoying!

 

I just recorded a 2 hour film on UK's Film4, edited the ads out, but can't get Toast to stop encoding it prior to a burn.

 

After a quick test, It seems that if you crop out ads from recording (Film4), then try to burn direct in toast, it forces it to rencode.

 

That is really harsh!

 

 

 

Here is eyeTVs Support reponse to the issue

 

a strange 'answer' to a FAQ :-)

 

Q: Why is toast re-encoding my recording when I want to burn a DVD?

 

A: No help available.

[bnz]

I haven't tried it yet with Toast 8, but i know that the Toast 7 version does not reencode, but just remultiplexes the DVD data if the stream is proper mpeg2 _and_ the sizes of the selected mpeg2 fit the disc. However, it is a different story if the mpeg2 stream does not fit the disc (which quite often is the case when space should not be wasted). Toast 7 used to reeconde the recorded mpeg2 streams (takes long) rather than merely requanizing the mpeg2 files (which essentially is the already existing fit-to-disc feature and is quick). Thus the only solution was to select dvd double layer as target, export as image to harddisk and then burn the dvd using fit-to-disk using the copy option. My guess is that this hasn't changed in Toast 8? It would be really nice if export, copy step would not be necessary anymore and toast would directly requantize the data instead of reecoding.