Is Toast 8 Redbook-Compatible

[BFrederick]

I read about the Jam features that have been incorporated to Toast 8... and a blurb that you can do "pro-quality" mastering in the new app.

 

Can anyone confirm if Toast 8 works to the Redbook standard specifications for CD Audio?

 

Thanks!

[Kewl]

I believe Toast sees the regions in an SDII file just fine. Toast Audio images are just SDII files with regions and Jam SDII files will work. It will not support split files with regions. It also doesn't support Markers of any kind.

No, it doesn't see the regions in a SDII file. Adam Fingerman reported it to the "Toast team" as a bug: check the link to Macintouch.

 

I know that a SDII file and Toast/Jam image file is the same thing: still, if Roxio is killing Jam, Toast should incorporate the "Open as disc image" function found in Jam and support regions & markers.

 

- Kewl

[freshburn]

If you use Protools a lot, Jam 6 is better I think. I doubt there will be a Universal version of Jam since Jam is now part of Toast 8.

[freshburn]

Have personally tried the SDII files and found they don't work, or are you just basing this all off of a Macintouch post? I doubt split regions will every be supported and markers/index never. Most users have not need for Markers, regions or indexes from pro apps.

 

From Macintouch:

We believe the prosumer/pro market for audio CD mastering previously served by Jam is now well served with several products from Apple, BIAS and SonicStudio, and where we could make a difference is by bringing some of these features to the mainstream through Toast.

[carpeperdiem]

What this means is I will have to buy PreMaster CD and give up on the Toast/Jam product line.

 

Using region definitions in Jam6 allowed me to make production masters of continuous music, with tracks defined as regions (from protools).

 

If Jam6 is to be retired, and this functionality is not incorporated into Toast8, then once our PPC machines go away, so will Jam and Toast.

 

I'll use Jam 6 until I replace my PPC G5 -- but for my laptop (macbook pro), I will have to find alternate solutions. Too bad.

[carpeperdiem]

So -- does Toast 8 REPLACE Jam 6?

 

Will Toast 8 do printouts of the PQ all nice and pretty?

 

What do we LOSE making audio CDs by migrating to Toast 8 (and giving up Jam 6)?

 

Jam 6 has been a great solution, allowing us to avoid true PMCD software such as Sonic's "PreMaster CD". Will Toast 8 give us all the features of Jam 6?

 

Thanks.

[freshburn]

Toast 8 doesn't support Index Points or Split Region files. If you have Jam 6 and it is working for you, Toast 8 doesn't bring anything new to you besides Audio Unit support.

 

Also, Toast doesn't have printing like Jam.

[carpeperdiem]

Toast 8 doesn't support Index Points or Split Region files.

When you say, "Split region files" -- do you mean files with embedded region definitions as defined by protools (export region definitions)?

 

I use these frequently when breaking up segues and long contiguous events into multiple track IDs -- couldn't work without it.

 

So, I guess Jam 6 is it for now -- any rumors or rumblings about macintel version of Jam for the future? I still have a PPC machine for Jam 6, but I also have a new macbookpro and I'd love to use Jam 6 here (native).

 

Thanks,

 

cpd

[Kewl]

Have personally tried the SDII files and found they don't work, or are you just basing this all off of a Macintouch post? I doubt split regions will every be supported and markers/index never. Most users have not need for Markers, regions or indexes from pro apps.

 

From Macintouch: We believe the prosumer/pro market for audio CD mastering previously served by Jam is now well served with several products from Apple, BIAS and SonicStudio, and where we could make a difference is by bringing some of these features to the mainstream through Toast.

Personally tried: I doesn't work. When clicking on the "Add" button and selecting a SDII file containing regions, Toast 8 (as Jam 6) should give a list of regions to select. Roxio's Fingerman thinks a bug. I believe so too. But still, what should really be there in Toast 8 is opening SDII files as disc images, like in Jam 6.

 

And I have written two messages that are part of the Toast 8 Macintouch thread.

 

And I don't agree with the statement that Apple, Bias and SonicStudio serve well the prosumer market. Apple WaveBurner is bundled with Logic (won't buy it, I use Nuendo), Bias Peak is not able to burn CDs with tracks containing audio countdown (maybe in the playlist...) and SonicStudio PreMaster CD is $500...

 

What this means is I will have to buy PreMaster CD and give up on the Toast/Jam product line. Using region definitions in Jam6 allowed me to make production masters of continuous music, with tracks defined as regions (from protools). If Jam6 is to be retired, and this functionality is not incorporated into Toast8, then once our PPC machines go away, so will Jam and Toast. I'll use Jam 6 until I replace my PPC G5 -- but for my laptop (macbook pro), I will have to find alternate solutions. Too bad.

My point exactly.

 

- Kewl

[freshburn]

These are SDII files from Peak, correct? I don't see why the Add button should give the Add Sound Item option like Jam. Personally, it should just open all the Regions automatically like it does with other SDII files. Same functionally as the "Open as Disc Image" option in Jam.

 

Jam has 4 or 5 different ways to add files, most users don't even know or use them all.

[Kewl]

I doubt there will be a Universal version of Jam since Jam is now part of Toast 8.

Roxio's Adam Fingerman, Director of Product Management for Mac, said to Macintouch: "We have no plans for any further updates to Jam".

 

Consequently to that statement, could the ability to open a SDII file as a disc image (and recognizing, within the disc image, regions and markers) be introduced in Toast? It's a big part of my workflow and when I upgrade to an Intel Mac, I don't want to lose it...

 

- Kewl

[freshburn]

I believe Toast sees the regions in an SDII file just fine. Toast Audio images are just SDII files with regions and Jam SDII files will work. It will not support split files with regions. It also doesn't support Markers of any kind.

[Kewl]

Personally, it should just open all the Regions automatically like it does with other SDII files. Same functionally as the "Open as Disc Image" option in Jam.

Yes, that would be a minimum...

 

Jam has 4 or 5 different ways to add files, most users don't even know or use them all.

Well, that shouldn't be an excuse!

 

- Kewl

[kwindrem]

Toast 8 is NOT recognizing regions an an SDII file created by Pro Tools. This has been something Roxio has broken in Jam version 5 and 6 so it may be something that can be fixed if it is supposed to work.

 

Without region import and without region support for split files (separate left and right), I'm afraid Toast 8 is a MAJOR step back for Jam users.

 

Toast 8 does not recognize Jam 6 files! That's another issue for those of us that want to upgrade. I have to keep Toast/Jam 5 on my system to support projects I created in versions prior to Jam 6. Now I'll also need to keep Jam 6 around too. What a mess!!!! Backwards file format compatibility is done in nearly every other application: Microsoft Office, Pro Tools, Adobe PhotoShop to name just a few. Some even support saving in older formats but that's not as important than just being able to open an old document and continue working with the new version of the product.

 

Add file incompatibility to the loss of features from Jam 6 and I'm not sure how to manage projects.

 

The inability to print out CD information for client review and to send to the mastering house is another show stopper for Toast 8's audio CD authoring capabilities.

 

I was sorry to see the loss of index points but I don't think that will affect me. Most CD players don't support indexes so there's not much value in authoring CDs with them.

 

It's nice to see audio processing added to Toast 8, however there's no way to add a processing component that can be used for all tracks. A prime example where this is essential is the final limiter. It should be added AFTER any gain changes and crossfades and that simply isn't possible with Toast 8.

 

I tried using Waves AU plug-ins in Toast 8 and their windows don't draw properly. Nothing is drawn until its updated. For buttons, they don't appear until you click where they should be. The background objects that define 0 marks for meters, etc are never drawn.

 

I'm also sorry to see there weren't any enhancements to Jam's editing capabilities. The glaring feature missing is visual track editing including trimming track start/end (without experimenting with numbers) and the ability to split and combine tracks. With WaveBurner Pro, you could take one large file (from a live performance for example) and split it into tracks, move the track starts and remove track marks all from the main waveform window. Those of use that don't use Logic Pro no longer have access to WaveBurner.

 

I'm PLEASED to see Roxio finally fixed the Sound Output preference. You can now select something other than what's now called "System Default" such as Digidesign HW ( HD ) and it works! The setting is also now remembered. One long-standing bug fixed. Too bad we won't be able to take advantage of it since Jam 6 is still the best Roxio has to offer in the audio CD authoring arena.

 

I've experimented with Bias Peak's CD authoring tools and it's not even close yet.

 

I've taken a quick look at Sonic Studio PreMaster CD and SonicBlade but these are much more expensive and don't really cut it as a pro authoring tool. For example their U/I is buggy (rearrange sections with 0 time between and PQ information disappears) and SonicBlade doesn't support stereo processing elements. (You must use two mono elements which is inappropriate for dynamics control.)

 

I can't believe we'd need to buy the entire Logic Pro package to get a decent CD authoring tool.

[freshburn]

Yes, Toast 8 is Redbook standard. It supports ISRC, MCN, CP and PE from Jam. I believe all version of Toast burn Redbook standard CD. Jam just gave more control over the subcode info.