Gapless Music DVDs

[eytan_bernet]

This was requested in Toast 7 - I love that toast 8 will now directly bring in my 96/24 FLAC files to make a PCM 96/24 DVD, but for the life of me I cannot understand why there is still no support for no gaps between tracks. For live music lovers, even Apple has succumbed and added the "Gapless Album" option in iTunes - can we PLEASE get this in the next update so as we can make 96/24 Audio DVDs of our favorite bands without a 1 second gap between each track? Pretty please?

[John at Roxio]

I dont want to look like we are ignoring you, but we cant comment on future features/releases.

[tsantee]

thank you

not having a PC YET, I had the product's name wrong

I still don't know why this WAS an issue for Toast

I have DVDs burned for me with that program

and there are no blips between tracks

like I have already said_ it looks like I have to go with a PC

This is good to know. Those wanting gapless playback of multiple audio files should use Audio DVD Creator on a PC. If they want album art and/or menu options for random playback or to sort by album/artist they should use Toast 8.

[darby]

But I am doing 96/24 PCM Audio? Why can I not have that?

 

if Windose can have software like DVDAudiofile that DOES NOT INSERT 2 second gaps

I feel that Toast should have the same capabilities for MACs

I thought that MACs were better for DAWs

[tsantee]

if Windose can have software like DVDAudiofile that DOES NOT INSERT 2 second gaps

I feel that Toast should have the same capabilities for MACs

I thought that MACs were better for DAWs

I know this is not a solution to the zero-second gap between tracks on a music DVD, but here is one way to create a single gapless audio track from joined multiple individual tracks. You can then use this in a music DVD. By the way, my method only works with 44.1 khz audio. You would need to use an audio editing application to join 96 khz tracks.

 

Drag the tracks you want to join to the Toast Audio window with Audio CD selected as the format. Choose zero-second pauses for all but the first track. You can check that there is no silence built into the track by using the custom crossfade window to preview the playback.

 

Now choose Save as Disc Image. Toast writes a .Sd2f file. When it is finished, import the .Sd2f file into iTunes. When iTunes adds the file to its Library it comes in as a single track. You now can use that iTunes import as a single gapless track in your music DVD.

[eytan_bernet]

As I watch my Neil Young Live at Massey Hall DVD at 96/24, with chapter markers and no audible gap between tracks, I reflect on how the technology and ability is there, yet what we have asked for for years is not.

For the most part, DVD Audio failed. However, many artists release DVDs with 96/24 PCM audio. It would be nice if we could make them as well, since we have all been asking for a couple of years now.

[darby]

I know this is not a solution to the zero-second gap between tracks on a music DVD, but here is one way to create a single gapless audio track from joined multiple individual tracks. You can then use this in a music DVD. By the way, my method only works with 44.1 khz audio. You would need to use an audio editing application to join 96 khz tracks.

 

Drag the tracks you want to join to the Toast Audio window with Audio CD selected as the format. Choose zero-second pauses for all but the first track. You can check that there is no silence built into the track by using the custom crossfade window to preview the playback.

 

Now choose Save as Disc Image. Toast writes a .Sd2f file. When it is finished, import the .Sd2f file into iTunes. When iTunes adds the file to its Library it comes in as a single track. You now can use that iTunes import as a single gapless track in your music DVD.

 

actually the program for windose I was referring to is called DVD Audio creator

you can take a show at 24/48 or even 24/96 that is tracked and burn it

as a music DVD without gaps... it creates index marks for each track

so why can't Toast do this... like I said I thought MACs were better

[eytan_bernet]

...By the way, my method only works with 44.1 khz audio. You would need to use an audio editing application to join 96 khz tracks.

 

 

.sd2f files are only 44.1, and that is really unusable for my purposes...

 

What I want to do is burn 96/24 files of live shows to DVD and listen to them straight through. The spec allows it. Software on Windows allows it. I have been asking for it for two years. This was not removed from the last version - there has always been a gap. Please Roxio, get someone to look into it. The addition of FLAC with version 7 has been a welcome addition - but for those who want to use it or its intended purpose, it is a real shame we cannot do what we want to do.

 

I have a legal live free concert at 96/24 with songs that segues. I wish I did not have a one second gap to contend with between songs - it basically makes the "Music DVD" feature useless for live music. Even Apple finally supported this.

[mbeaudelle]

This is incredibly silly...I am also a fan of live recordings, but even leaving that aside, the impossibility of gapless tracking completely screws up, to name a widely known thing, side 2 of The Beatles' Abbey Road !What were the developers thinking when they made the menu and began at 1 second onwards ? They completely ignore their consumer's needs !

[freshburn]

Toast 7 supported 0 second gaps with no menus, but people complained that menus had a skip. So, 0 second gaps got removed completely. Sometimes it best to not complain so much. Zero seconds gaps will not return anytime soon in Toast.

[darby]

This is good to know. Those wanting gapless playback of multiple audio files should use Audio DVD Creator on a PC. If they want album art and/or menu options for random playback or to sort by album/artist they should use Toast 8.

 

 

thought I'd get the last word in

your turn

[darby]

Toast 7 supported 0 second gaps with no menus, but people complained that menus had a skip. So, 0 second gaps got removed completely. Sometimes it best to not complain so much. Zero seconds gaps will not return anytime soon in Toast.

 

it's a sad day when I have to quit using Toast & my MAC

and go with a windose based OS & DVD Audio creator

oh well...

 

 

I dont want to look like we are ignoring you, but we cant comment on future features/releases.

 

with out this option being enabled

there will be NO future releases on my computer

SORRY!

[tsantee]

This is incredibly silly...I am also a fan of live recordings, but even leaving that aside, the impossibility of gapless tracking completely screws up, to name a widely known thing, side 2 of The Beatles' Abbey Road !What were the developers thinking when they made the menu and began at 1 second onwards ? They completely ignore their consumer's needs !

Without going back through this thread to see if I already suggested this, you can have a gapless live music DVD program as long as it is one track. The way to do this is to set up your tracks as if you are making an Audio CD. There you can set up zero second gaps and, if you want, do cross fades and track trimming. Then choose Save as disc image. When that's done add the resulting .sd2f file as a Music DVD track. It will all be one track with no gaps.

[eytan_bernet]

it would be reall nice if roxio revisited this feature and gave us what obviously many of us want. It is technically feasible, and warnings could be presented on the screen. Roxio, make it happen, please.

[mbeaudelle]

Without going back through this thread to see if I already suggested this, you can have a gapless live music DVD program as long as it is one track. The way to do this is to set up your tracks as if you are making an Audio CD. There you can set up zero second gaps and, if you want, do cross fades and track trimming. Then choose Save as disc image. When that's done add the resulting .sd2f file as a Music DVD track. It will all be one track with no gaps.

 

Thanks for your positive attitude, Eugene. I understand that if we join all of an album's tracks into one big file, there'll be no gaps. But - and maybe I'm too demanding - I find it a bit of a hassle to have to FF/SEARCH to go to a certain track. It shouldn't be such an issue to fix Toast and have things tracked as we know them. Thanks for offering an alternative anyway !

[tsantee]

it's a sad day when I have to quit using Toast & my MAC

and go with a windose based OS & DVD Audio creator

oh well...

DVD-Audio Creator (which, like Toast, is a Sonic product) creates DVD-Audio discs. Those are a different format than the Music DVDs created by Toast. This is from Toast Help: "A Music DVD should not be confused with a DVD-Audio disc. DVD-Audio discs require a special DVD player. A Music DVD is a standard DVD that contains music (and can also contain photo slideshows and videos), has full navigation menus for song selection, and can be played in any set-top DVD player."

 

DVD-Audio Creator - not Toast - is the right tool for making DVD-Audio discs and there is no Mac version.

 

As freshburn explained the menuing prevents true zero-second pauses with the Music DVD format. Roxio apparently removed the zero-second option from the format in Toast 8 because it mislead people into believing there could be a true zero-second gap when using Toast 7.

 

The only workaround is to join the tracks into a single gapless track prior to dragging to Toast. This can be done with audio editing applications such as Sound Studio, Bias Peak and QuickTime Pro or - when using 44.1 khz audio tracks - with the method I described above.

 

I am not trying to suggest you should be any less disappointed and upset with Toast 8's Music DVD limitations. I just want to clarify the way things are and the only available method to get a true gapless playback with a Music DVD.

[jlevine31]

thought I'd get the last word in

your turn

 

 

Darby-

I find the same issue you're posting about annoying also. I've resorted to using dvd audiofile on a PC for live recordings. Just FYI I noticed that dvd-audiofile released a new version for the mac (although I'm not sure of it's compatibility as I know that old versions didn't run on mac intel systems) which might be worth checking out.

[eytan_bernet]

I dont want to look like we are ignoring you, but we cant comment on future features/releases.

 

 

Well, it feels like you are, since it is a bug I commented on a year ago and have received no response on. I don't want to upgrade to Toast 9 to get this functionality. I see it as a bug, not a feature request.

 

For example, I reported a bug in Toast 7.0 where .toastbackgroundimage, despite requesting that it NOT be burned on the Windows side of a cross platform disk, was burned there - I requested that this be fixed, or at least you would allow us to flag it properly as invisible. This bug was not addressed through multiple updates and required purchasing Toast 8 - I appreciate all the new features you add to each successive version of Toast, and while I will continue to purchase each successive version, I do feel you owe your customers to handle bug fixes like this without a full upgrade cost...

 

Thank You

Eytan

P.S. I am logged in from my work account now, not the private account under which I posted earlier. Yes I have purchased two copies of Toast - one for work, one for home....

[eytan_bernet]

Well, it feels like you are, since it is a bug I commented on a year ago and have received no response on. I don't want to upgrade to Toast 9 to get this functionality. I see it as a bug, not a feature request.

 

For example, I reported a bug in Toast 7.0 where .toastbackgroundimage, despite requesting that it NOT be burned on the Windows side of a cross platform disk, was burned there - I requested that this be fixed, or at least you would allow us to flag it properly as invisible. This bug was not addressed through multiple updates and required purchasing Toast 8 - I appreciate all the new features you add to each successive version of Toast, and while I will continue to purchase each successive version, I do feel you owe your customers to handle bug fixes like this without a full upgrade cost...

 

Thank You

Eytan

P.S. I am logged in from my work account now, not the private account under which I posted earlier. Yes I have purchased two copies of Toast - one for work, one for home....

 

 

Can you issue a response John?

[darby]

DVD-Audio Creator (which, like Toast, is a Sonic product) creates DVD-Audio discs. Those are a different format than the Music DVDs created by Toast. This is from Toast Help: "A Music DVD should not be confused with a DVD-Audio disc. DVD-Audio discs require a special DVD player. A Music DVD is a standard DVD that contains music (and can also contain photo slideshows and videos), has full navigation menus for song selection, and can be played in any set-top DVD player."

 

DVD-Audio Creator - not Toast - is the right tool for making DVD-Audio discs and there is no Mac version.

 

As freshburn explained the menuing prevents true zero-second pauses with the Music DVD format. Roxio apparently removed the zero-second option from the format in Toast 8 because it mislead people into believing there could be a true zero-second gap when using Toast 7.

 

The only workaround is to join the tracks into a single gapless track prior to dragging to Toast. This can be done with audio editing applications such as Sound Studio, Bias Peak and QuickTime Pro or - when using 44.1 khz audio tracks - with the method I described above.

 

I am not trying to suggest you should be any less disappointed and upset with Toast 8's Music DVD limitations. I just want to clarify the way things are and the only available method to get a true gapless playback with a Music DVD.

 

 

actually DVD Audio Creator does NOT create DVDAs

it does what Toast WISHES it could

it creates GAPLESS 24/48 or 96 DVDs that will play on ANY DVD player

I KNOW the difference!

 

I start with large AIFFs in 24/48 I don't have to JOIN them they already ARE

and why do I want to take DVD quality DOWN to CD quality?

that's why I started recording in 24 BIT

 

if it can be done in the PC world_ why not MAC?

[tsantee]

actually DVD Audio Creator does NOT create DVDAs

it does what Toast WISHES it could

it creates GAPLESS 24/48 or 96 DVDs that will play on ANY DVD player

I KNOW the difference!

 

I start with large AIFFs in 24/48 I don't have to JOIN them they already ARE

and why do I want to take DVD quality DOWN to CD quality?

that's why I started recording in 24 BIT

 

if it can be done in the PC world_ why not MAC?

Sorry. I thought you were referring to this:DVD-Audio Creator.

Can you provide a link to the application you're referring to? i'm interested in learning more about it. Do you know how much it costs and where it can be purchased? When I Googled for it I just got the Sonic product.

 

If your AIFF is already a single gapless file then what difference does the gap issue make? You have to have multiple tracks to have Toast creating gaps. You don't need to downsample your tracks, either. Choose PCM in the Custom Encoder window and select 96 khz, 24-bit audio. The only downsampling is if you wanted to do my little trick with Sd2f files, but as I've said you can join tracks with other frequencies using an audio editing application. But I think you already know all that. I'm unclear what we're arguing about. We both acknowledge that Toast doesn't do gapless Music DVDs and that is unacceptable to you and others who want that ability. I'm just saying it is possible to have gapless playback -- even with 96/24 audio - as long as its all one track, which is pretty obvious and probably didn't need to be said at all. I'm sorry for adding to your upset.

[freshburn]

The 0 second gap was removed on purpose. The reason for this is because with the menuing system on a DVDMA, their is no way to get a 0 second gap. Also, there are issues with AC3 and 0 seconds because of the format being lossy.

[eytan_bernet]

The 0 second gap was removed on purpose. The reason for this is because with the menuing system on a DVDMA, their is no way to get a 0 second gap. Also, there are issues with AC3 and 0 seconds because of the format being lossy.

 

 

But I am doing 96/24 PCM Audio? Why can I not have that?

[freshburn]

I believe he is referring to this program.

 

http://www.audio-dvd-creator.com/

 

As I said before, user complaint got the feature removed from Toast 7.

[darby]

I believe he is referring to this program.

 

http://www.audio-dvd-creator.com/

 

As I said before, user complaint got the feature removed from Toast 7.

 

 

thank you

not having a PC YET, I had the product's name wrong

I still don't know why this WAS an issue for Toast

I have DVDs burned for me with that program

and there are no blips between tracks

like I have already said_ it looks like I have to go with a PC