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Video Rendering EMC9 verses EMC8


Alan in TN

Question

I recently upgraded EMC9 from EMC8. During the load it didn't remove EMC8 as I thought it would.

 

In EMC8 I can render a 30 minute video to a *.mpeg format in about 5 minutes. If I attempt to render the same file in EMC9 to a *.mpg format it takes nearly 30 minutes. Anybody have any idea why it would take so long? Second, why wouldn't *.mpeg be availble in EMC9 when I'm using the same output mpeg2 settings?

 

Next, I installed a dual layer HP DVD burner. For some reason I get errors when it's about half-way finished burning. I haven't looked into this yet but thought I'd post it too since I needed to use this avenue for the rendering question.

Thanks,

Alan

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Is this the same MPEG file in both? Sounds like EMC9 totally re-rendered the file while V8 was using smart render.

 

First, thanks for the tip about Gspot. I was using 2.21 initially and it doesn't support mpeg2. I downloaded 2.6 and was able to get the interlace information.

 

The ATI raw file is creating a non-interlaced. The V8 files were interlaced and used smart render which takes 5-7 minutes for 23 minute file. The files in V9 are non-interlaced to render similar speed results. I'm wondering if it takes longer in V9 for some reason to go from non-interlaced to interlaced.

 

I'm going to look in the ATI library to see if interlace is available. I don't think it is but it may help get me to move to V9 if I can get the performance.

 

In regards to your question, it does appear that it used smart render in V8 and re-rendered in V9. I'm not certain why but the current V9 setup is totally unacceptable from a time investment standpoint.

 

I still haven't heard anything back from HP about my drive.

Have a great day!

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When dealing with MPEG 2 files, using smart render is ideal. However looking back at your posts, rendering a 3 hour movie in 5 hours is very reasonable. That's less than 2X the length of the entire movie. When I first got into video editing, it was taking me 10 to 12 hrs to render a 2hr home movie.

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When dealing with MPEG 2 files, using smart render is ideal. However looking back at your posts, rendering a 3 hour movie in 5 hours is very reasonable. That's less than 2X the length of the entire movie. When I first got into video editing, it was taking me 10 to 12 hrs to render a 2hr home movie.

 

Wow! What patience to spend that much time rendering. For the most part everything I do is smart rendered. I did check my Cannon files that were loaded with ECM firewire and they are interlaced. The only files that I have being input non-interlaced is with my ATI Radeon All-in-Wonder card. I checked the setting and it is set to DVD quality. I'm using ATI center 7.7 or so.

 

Perhaps a newer ATI center would provide more options. However, then again everytime I've downloaded a newer ATI driver from Microsoft it won't work with the ATI center.

 

Anyway I'm back to rendering in smart mode and may leave it alone until deciding on another video input solution. For some reason the TV tuner quality has become very faint. However, the composite input still works great.

 

Have a great day.

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I can't be 100% certain as I don't have b8 on this machine but I think the reason may be that v9 is rendering at a higher bit rate than v8

 

Did you update firmware on the HP drive? Also, due to the way v9 works, it's important that you have the latest video drivers for your graphics and also the latest DirectX (9.0c, Dec release)

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Yes, in V8 after about 20 seconds it goes to the gray screen or Smart Rendering. Hum ... how do I turn it on for V9 because it did you described.

 

Thanks so much!

 

Hey! I'm in Maryville too! Small world. I setup a custom output with the same criteria as mpeg BEST Quality and turn off "interlace" and wow it's fast again. Thanks for much for the guidance.

 

Later today I will tackle the DVD-DL burning issue. I was getting "end of user area" message.

Have a great day.

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In EMC8 I can render a 30 minute video to a *.mpeg format in about 5 minutes. If I attempt to render the same file in EMC9 to a *.mpg format it takes nearly 30 minutes. /quote]Sounds like V8 was using smart render and EMC 9 wasn't although 1X is still really fast for rendering in real time.

 

When you were rendering in V8, did you see a 'gray image' with the word MPEG during the render? That is smart render.

 

In V9, did you see the actual video in the small preview during render? This is NOT smart render.

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Ok thanks I'll check the HP site and see what they have.

Have a great day!

 

 

In regards to the HP DVD 840x I checked the firmware. It is at the latest version. Therefore, I think there's a problem with the drive. I can't imagine 10 out of a 100 pack of DVD+R DL discs being bad and unreadable.

 

In regards to ECM 8 verses ECM 9 rendering, I uninstalled ECM 9 and then reloaded ECM 8. I used the standard DVD Best quality setting (9mbs, interlaced) and rended a 2 hr 45 minute movie in 45 minutes.

 

I'm not certain why interlaced in ECM 8 works similar to non-interlaced in ECM 9. However, the one big difference is that ECM 8 outputs to a *.mpeg file whereas ECM 9 uses *.mpg. Additionally, both when rendering make reference to *.mpeg in the gray box.

 

Does anybody have any knowledge why Roxio introduced the *.mpeg format in ECM 8 and then abandoned it in ECM 9? Is there a way to verify with the *.mpeg file to determine if it's truly interlaced? It's possible that it's not because I haven't verified and to this point had no reason to be concerned.

 

Thanks,

Alan

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The drive may be fine - just that HP haven't updated the firmware to work with the discs

 

Wouldn't surprise me - back in the days when CD writers cost an arm and a leg, I had a HP 2x drive which could handle 640 MB. When 700 MB discs appeared I e-mailed HP and asked if there was a firmware update coming. The reply was to the effect "Hewlett Packard do not make 700 MB discs so we won't be issuing any upgraded firmware"

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Depends on what the final file will be used. There is a MAX bitrate for standard video DVD creation. Some of us here have noticed that using anything higher than 8MBs can cause playback problems on 'some' set top DVD players. Use what works best with your setup.

 

All TV broadcasts in the US are interlaced with the exception of some HighDef channels which can use 720p, 1080p or 1080i. Whether to keep your capture interlaced depends on how you have it connected AND the TV. If you have a CRT TV that does not have progressive inputs, there is no reason to deinterlace the file.

 

Thanks for the additional feedback. I'll set my rate back to 8mbs. Mostly I record stuff for my sons so they don't have to endure the commercials

 

I did record a John Wayne movie, In Harm's Way, yesterday and it's a three hour movie. I immediately used MyDVD to create an iso file. It took 5 hours to render it to the file

 

My ATI tuner started fading out in December. I'm now coming out of my cable box into the composite-in on the card. It was fine and the picture is bright and clear.

 

With the unexpected rendering yesterday I didn't get to work on the DVD DL issue. I did uninstall the previous HP DVD software and then EMC disc copier wouldn't recognize a DVD in the drive. Then I tried to load the NERO software thinking there was a driver embedded on the disc. It didn't help so I removed it. At this point I removed EMC and will attempt another load of EMC 9.

 

Have a great day,

Alan

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Thanks for the additional feedback. I'll set my rate back to 8mbs. Mostly I record stuff for my sons so they don't have to endure the commercials

 

I did record a John Wayne movie, In Harm's Way, yesterday and it's a three hour movie. I immediately used MyDVD to create an iso file. It took 5 hours to render it to the file

 

My ATI tuner started fading out in December. I'm now coming out of my cable box into the composite-in on the card. It was fine and the picture is bright and clear.

 

With the unexpected rendering yesterday I didn't get to work on the DVD DL issue. I did uninstall the previous HP DVD software and then EMC disc copier wouldn't recognize a DVD in the drive. Then I tried to load the NERO software thinking there was a driver embedded on the disc. It didn't help so I removed it. At this point I removed EMC and will attempt another load of EMC 9.

 

Have a great day,

Alan

 

Alan, if you are going to do anything over 2 hours, burn it to a Folder Set, not an .iso file. The .iso method cuts off anything over 2 hours. The Folder Set does not.

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In regards to the HP DVD 840x I checked the firmware. It is at the latest version.
I have the 840b and the latest firmware that I found is IMA6. Probably the same model. HP has a habit of changing the letter. Is it external?

 

Is there a way to verify with the *.mpeg file to determine if it's truly interlaced?
Download the shareware app called GSpot. It will give you all kinds of info on a video file like bitrate and what codec was used to decode it, etc. Comes it handy at times.
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Alan, if you are going to do anything over 2 hours, burn it to a Folder Set, not an .iso file. The .iso method cuts off anything over 2 hours. The Folder Set does not.

 

Greg, Thanks for I hadn't read that. Then again most of the stuff I record isn't over 2 hrs. I just happened to see that movie and it's a favorite so I thought I'd give it a try since I needed to test the DL burning.

 

I reloaded EMC 9 and the DVD drive is recognized. When inserting a standard DVD it recognizes it. However, when I put in Memorex DVD+R DL it won't recognize it. I'm using an HP DVD 840X. I didn't reload the NERO software at this point because I'm not interested in using Lightscribe unless it has special DL driver embedded or something.

 

If I continue to have issues I'll check the registry later.

Have a great day,

Alan

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Exellent point! I recall those issues at that time. I've sent an email to them and I'll be interested in their response.

Thanks and have a great day.

Hey Gary,

I hope you're having a great day. I'll look for the app and let you know my results in evaluating the ECM 8 files I have created.

Thanks,

Alan

 

Hey Gary,

I downloaded Gspot. It provides some information but unfortunately nothing about interlacing.

 

Also, launched Disc Installation Loader and mounted a 2 hr 45 min video I'd created to a *.iso file. It was all there without anything being chopped off. Thought you might be interested in my results.

 

Have a great day,

Alan

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Check for a firmware update for your drive.

 

Reason is that it's the firmware that does the disc recognition, not the software, and with 'new' brands being released regularly, the firmware just mightn't recognise the disc.

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Don't use the drivers from Microsoft Update service. They aren't always the latest. Download the drivers and ATI Center directly from ati.amd.com.

 

I still haven't heard back from HP regarding the DVD-DL burning issue. It looks like I'll need to contact them again.

 

I was reading about the ATI aiw1900 board. Do you know anybody that's using it?

 

Have a great day!

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Don't use the drivers from Microsoft Update service. They aren't always the latest. Download the drivers and ATI Center directly from ati.amd.com.

I found that out the hard way. I'm not really concerned about any downloads. Everything is working fine now except for the DVD DL burning. I haven't heard back from HP yet.

 

Have a great day.

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Check for a firmware update for your drive.

 

Reason is that it's the firmware that does the disc recognition, not the software, and with 'new' brands being released regularly, the firmware just mightn't recognise the disc.

 

Ok thanks I'll check the HP site and see what they have.

Have a great day!

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The drive may be fine - just that HP haven't updated the firmware to work with the discs

 

Wouldn't surprise me - back in the days when CD writers cost an arm and a leg, I had a HP 2x drive which could handle 640 MB. When 700 MB discs appeared I e-mailed HP and asked if there was a firmware update coming. The reply was to the effect "Hewlett Packard do not make 700 MB discs so we won't be issuing any upgraded firmware"

 

 

Exellent point! I recall those issues at that time. I've sent an email to them and I'll be interested in their response.

Thanks and have a great day.

 

I have the 840b and the latest firmware that I found is IMA6. Probably the same model. HP has a habit of changing the letter. Is it external?

 

Download the shareware app called GSpot. It will give you all kinds of info on a video file like bitrate and what codec was used to decode it, etc. Comes it handy at times.

 

Hey Gary,

I hope you're having a great day. I'll look for the app and let you know my results in evaluating the ECM 8 files I have created.

Thanks,

Alan

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Wow, first time met someone here from Maryville. LOL Welcome! Good luck with the DL. haven't been brave enough myself. Let us know how it goes.

 

 

Thanks! I'll update everybody on the DL issue. Here's my findings from the Rendering on V9. I was using a 4 minute for for the data below:

 

8 mbs rendered a data rate of 6936

8 mbs interlaced a data rate of 8120

10 mbs a data rate of 6984

10 mbs interlaced a data rate of 10104

 

The non-interlaced renderings (trim up) of the recorded mpg files is really fast. If I render a previously rendered Roxio file regardless of it's data rate it is fast provided I don't change to another formet, i.e. avi. The interlaced in each case going from an ATI mpg file (similar quality but I bet isn't interlaced since it's an all-in-one board that's about 3 years old) took nearly the time of the file to generate in the Roxio format.

 

Considering the ATI to Roxio conversion, it appears to be typical for the interlace mode. When reviewing the files above I didn't notice any difference for investing the extra time to render by using interlace mode. For the moment I'll go with non-interlaced at 10 mbs.

 

Have a great day All!

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Depends on what the final file will be used. There is a MAX bitrate for standard video DVD creation. Some of us here have noticed that using anything higher than 8MBs can cause playback problems on 'some' set top DVD players. Use what works best with your setup.

 

All TV broadcasts in the US are interlaced with the exception of some HighDef channels which can use 720p, 1080p or 1080i. Whether to keep your capture interlaced depends on how you have it connected AND the TV. If you have a CRT TV that does not have progressive inputs, there is no reason to deinterlace the file.

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