Capture..A Picture of the Pathetic

[TheDoctor]

Hi All,

 

I use a broadcast quality Sony HVR-A1U to do a lot of sporting/recruiting video and thought that my new 1080i sub-2 pound awesome piece of equipment and my $5,000 Dell XPS 700 with dual NVidia 7950 GX2s and 4 Western Digital 320GB RAID 0 configured hard drives deserved a nice entry package to get working fast in HD.

 

The program chokes on HD transfer, even after correcting (hacking the registry) the SP2 error of slowing IEEE 1394 speed back down to a super slow speed (see the MS Knowledge Base).

 

Now, even if I downconvert the HD to SD, the program reports that the files are corrupt or missing portions necessary for rendering. Well, I used a little NVidia applet to take a look at the decoders in "actions" and what they were reporting.

 

It won't surprise you to realize just how messed up this software is when you follow this link to a personal web page of mine and see a bitmap of what the decoder reporting applet shows:

 

Decoder Reporter Results

 

The reference at the bottom to the compatible decoder is to NVidia's PureVideo Decoder which is at the top of the list and cannot be seen.

 

Read it and weep.

 

To buy a software suite and expect to hack your registry around just to capture video is just pathetic. Someone should be awfully embarrassed.

 

Respectfully

TheDoctor

[ggrussell]

It is apparent that you have no idea what that MS utility is for. It was designed to check for Windows Media Player and Media Center Edition compatibility ONLY and nothing else. Just because the 'decoders' are not certified by Microsoft, has no bearing on how they work with the intended software.

 

There is a KNOWN Windows problem with 1394 and SP2 when transferring from some camcorders. See Microsoft's KB for that fix which has NOTHING to do with Roxio.

 

From what I have read, HD camcorders do not use the standard DV compression when recording in HD mode. You will have to use the software that came with the camcorder for capturing. Once captured, you should be able to use the files iin Videowave/myDVD 9. I have downloaded several types of HD files like 1080 TS files , HDWMV and HD DivX. They all worked fine for me.

[TheDoctor]

It is apparent that you have no idea what that MS utility is for. It was designed to check for Windows Media Player and Media Center Edition compatibility ONLY and nothing else. Just because the 'decoders' are not certified by Microsoft, has no bearing on how they work with the intended software.

 

There is a KNOWN Windows problem with 1394 and SP2 when transferring from some camcorders. See Microsoft's KB for that fix which has NOTHING to do with Roxio.

 

From what I have read, HD camcorders do not use the standard DV compression when recording in HD mode. You will have to use the software that came with the camcorder for capturing. Once captured, you should be able to use the files iin Videowave/myDVD 9. I have downloaded several types of HD files like 1080 TS files , HDWMV and HD DivX. They all worked fine for me.

 

 

I apologize for citing the wrong source of the applet or "utility", but the behaviour of the software that I am depicting happens to be patent. Calling Roxio's CS got me suggestions like "the software won't work on a RAID 0 array", so, just to be compliant, I attempted to capture the video to the one hard drive that was off the array and got the same results. I could go over the 4 different "suggestions" for getting the software to behave, but I am not sure that you're prepared to be constructive with someone who has patiently waited for a solution to the issue for a long time without a suggestion that was close to getting the software to perform in my computer's environment. I used version eight without remark for a long, long time.

 

I am not a neophyte. Maybe the "common" lack of Certification REALLY means something sometimes, eh ?

 

If you would like, I am willing to post the "suggestions" that I got from tech support and you can gauge my "inferred ignorance" against that of the people that are supposed to be supporting this piece of software. I rarely raise my ire with software or hardware and lend patience with companies that I lay my money down to.

 

I just got through with an issue with NVidia. The tenor was nothing like this. But, stand ready. I'll post the "solutions" offered to me for the behavior I am experiencing. OK ? We'll call it neutral until you've had a chance to look at it. I think that it could be constructive rather than contentious for everyone who might read it. Fair ?

 

TheDoctor

[TheDoctor]

It is apparent that you have no idea what that MS utility is for. It was designed to check for Windows Media Player and Media Center Edition compatibility ONLY and nothing else. Just because the 'decoders' are not certified by Microsoft, has no bearing on how they work with the intended software.

 

There is a KNOWN Windows problem with 1394 and SP2 when transferring from some camcorders. See Microsoft's KB for that fix which has NOTHING to do with Roxio.

 

From what I have read, HD camcorders do not use the standard DV compression when recording in HD mode. You will have to use the software that came with the camcorder for capturing. Once captured, you should be able to use the files iin Videowave/myDVD 9. I have downloaded several types of HD files like 1080 TS files , HDWMV and HD DivX. They all worked fine for me.

 

Just, in the interim, no software comes with the Sony Professional, Broadcast Quality HVR-A1U. All of the encoding and decoding is embedded AND the device is recognized by Windows when attached by 4 to 4 or 4 to 6 pin firewire. Downconverting, as well, is embedded in the logic on the camcorder. So, the streams that come from the camcorder are standardized (as loosely as that term can be these days) for software/hardware capture.

 

That also, is not intended to be an insult whatsoever, but rather constructive to those who might have the same unit. Let's get some CS suggestions up.

[TheDoctor]

It is apparent that you have no idea what that MS utility is for. It was designed to check for Windows Media Player and Media Center Edition compatibility ONLY and nothing else. Just because the 'decoders' are not certified by Microsoft, has no bearing on how they work with the intended software.

 

There is a KNOWN Windows problem with 1394 and SP2 when transferring from some camcorders. See Microsoft's KB for that fix which has NOTHING to do with Roxio.

 

From what I have read, HD camcorders do not use the standard DV compression when recording in HD mode. You will have to use the software that came with the camcorder for capturing. Once captured, you should be able to use the files iin Videowave/myDVD 9. I have downloaded several types of HD files like 1080 TS files , HDWMV and HD DivX. They all worked fine for me.

 

By the way, I did know what MP & MCE meant. Just irony that the software was malfunctioning regardless of the signature, bought, earned or not.

 

Here is the exchange with CS regarding the behavior I am still experiencing along with a "golden brick" bestowed upon a CS person who helped me with a Version 8 issue, to show you that I am not just a malcontent:

 

Back in Version 8 (to show that I am not a grovelling malcontent):

 

9/25/2006

 

Just wanted to tell you that you rep, M____ K____, was OUTSTANDING in trying to help me with a transfer problem between my HiDef (1080i) Sony camcorder and the new Suite (I used version 8 without any transfer problem to an Inspiron 8200 laptop !!!). He was probing and diligent and completely competent and thoughtful in sleuthing the problem. He finally explained that the new suite was very much more complicated and able to do more complex things and that I should use my new "BEAST" (as I called it), a Dell XPS 700 with dual 7900 graphics cards and two RAID 0 320GB Hard Drives to accommodate the new, more complex software and call him back. He was ACTUALLY WILLING TO WAIT FOR ME TO DO THIS !!! But, I told him that I would make the attempt and call back.

 

This support person, xxxxxxx, deserves your "pat on the back" or promotion into teaching others what "Sterling Tech Support" is.

 

Congratulations to Roxio for hiring such a great support person. As you can see, I am in the "Client Support" field myself, for 22+ years; counseling persons on the leasing and sales of industrial real estate. I know a good resource when I experience it and Mujtaba Khan is in the 99+ percentile.

 

9/25/2006 (Went out in glee and got EMC9):

 

********************************************************************************

*********

 

(Second Ticket to continue the first - below)

 

TICKET DETAILS:

Ticket #: 313282 Last Updated: 2/11/2007 5:09:33 PM Update

 

Problem: Technical Support...Easy Media Creator 9 Suite...Video/Media Import (Capture Video)...Program Crash/Hang

 

WebTicket

02/11/07 5:09 PM I am afraid that Sony's HVR-A1U does not come with any software because it is recognized by Windows XP and, in fact, appears as such in the Capture Applet in EMC 9.0. Further, if I put the camcorder in down convert mode, EMC 9.0 recognizes the change from HD, which it also recognizes and lists the parameters of the video stream.

 

The problem is that it only captures a stream for a while, then aborts. I press the capture button again and it begins capturing again. And, so on. The camcorder is supported by Win XP and recognized on connection. Why the stream isn't seemless through an entire clip is beyond me.

 

Are you understanding this ? Why would it stop, when it is in Windows XP MCP list ?

 

Don

 

PS - Do you have different IEEE 1394 drivers or a latest version that you suggest ? I know that Windows had some issues with their firewire drivers a while ago.

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

02/09/07 9:58 AM Thank you for contacting Roxio Technical Support

 

The Sony HVR-A1U, is not a supported input device in Easy Media Creator 9. Try capturing the video with the software that comes bundled with it and than editing it in EMC 9.

 

If the information provided does not resolve your issue simply update your webticket with a detailed explanation with the steps you have tried and any error messages you receive.

 

Regards,

Roxio Technical Support

http://support.roxio.com

 

Have you tried our online self-service tools? For instant support, please try one of the tools below:

 

Roxanne - http://roxio.com/en/support/nh/index.jhtml

 

Knowledgebase - http://search.roxio.com/

 

We are always looking for ways to improve so please click on the link below to complete our online support survey.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=806342804448

 

Thank you for your comments and we appreciate the feedback

XXXXXXX

 

...Ticket Closed

 

WebTicket

02/09/07 4:30 AM I am afraid that Movie Maker doesn't capture HD video, just regular DV, so that isn't an option as a work around.

 

I need something different. I am really surprised that, the program (EMC 9.0) is marketed as an HD editing solution, but the program can't keep streaming HD while capturing AND that there have been no updates to the software since its release.

 

I need a solution, badly,

 

Thanks,

Don

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

02/08/07 3:54 PM Thank you for Contacting Roxio Technical Support

 

Some capture devices are specifically designed to work with the bundled software.

Try capturing into another program or the software provided with your capture

device and saving the file as an .mpg or .avi. You can then import your files into Easy Media Creator.

 

If you are using Windows XP, a good test is to try capturing in Windows Movie

Maker.

 

How to save a video in Windows Movie Maker:

 

To do this make sure tasks is selected.

 

On the left side click under finish movie select save to my computer

 

Give the file a name and location and click next.

 

Click on show more choices

 

Check the box for other settings

 

From the list select dv-avi and click next.

 

Once completed you can import that file into your project and burn it.

 

NOTE: Roxio Capture does not support any devices which capture in MPEG-2 format.

You will need to use the capture software that came with the device.

 

If the information provided does not resolve your issue simply update your webticket with a detailed explanation with the steps you have tried and any error messages you receive.

 

Regards,

 

Roxio Technical Support

http://support.roxio.com

 

Have you tried our online self-service tools? For instant support, please try one of the tools below:

 

Roxanne - http://roxio.com/en/support/nh/index.jhtml

 

Knowledgebase - http://search.roxio.com/

 

We are always looking for ways to improve so please click on the link below to complete our online support survey.

http://www.roxio.com/en/support/survey/gen_cust_sat_2.jhtml

 

Thank you for your comments and we appreciate the feedback

 

xxxxxxxxxx

 

...Ticket Closed

 

WebTicket

01/31/07 11:27 AM Any ideas for me ? Yet ?

 

Thanks,

Don

 

WebTicket

01/18/07 3:10 PM I tried to capture to the lone, non-RAID drive and the HD transfer from my Sony HVR-A1U still aborted after a few minutes of capture in HD. So, RAID is not the issue and I am not using a network drive.

What next ?

 

Thanks,

Don

 

WebTicket

01/18/07 2:52 PM Ticket #251921 - Didn't know that the response wouldn't be sent by email. Why can I down convert my HD video and capture it seemlessly on the RAID 0 configuration, but, with all that throughput, I can't transfer HD video ?

 

********************************************************************************

*********

 

First Ticket (expired before solution):

 

TICKET DETAILS:

Ticket #: 251921 Last Updated: 11/3/2006 5:22:12 PM Update

 

Problem: Technical Support...Easy Media Creator 9 Suite...Video/Media Import (Capture Video)...Program Crash/Hang

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

11/03/06 5:22 PM Thank you for contacting Roxio Technical Support,

 

RAID and network drives will cause lockups.

 

Regards,

Roxio Technical Support

 

http://support.roxio.com

 

Have you tried our online self-service tools? For instant support, please try one of the tools below:

 

Roxanne - http://roxio.com/en/support/nh/index.jhtml

 

Knowledgebase - http://search.roxio.com/

 

We are always looking for ways to improve so please click on the link below to complete our online support survey.

 

http://www2.roxio.com/en/support/survey/gen_cust_sat_2.jhtml

 

Thank you for your comments and we appreciate the feedback

XXXXXXXXXXX

 

...Ticket Closed

 

WebTicket

09/25/06 11:29 AM I tried to transfer HiDef video from my Sony HVR-A1U to my new Dell XPS 700 which has two 320gb drives in RAID 0 configuration and the transfer still hung and aborted numerous times.

 

In addition, I found that productions that I made would not play in the latest version on Windows Media Player, but would play in Real Player (?). I reproduced both behaviors multiple times. The Dell has dual 7900 GTX 512MB each video cards, so throughput (RAID 0 to 640gb of drives) and rendering dual NVidia 7900 GTX video cards should be no issue.

 

I can still transfer to version 8 on my "lowly" Inspiron 8200 laptop !!! And the burned DVDs play WITH any DVD player.

 

There HAS TO BE AN ISSUE with Version 9. My Dell XPS 700 is a BEAST OF POWER.

 

Thanks,

Don

[james_hardin]

Don't post employee names!

 

I think this is something you are going to have to work through with Tech Support.

[TheDoctor]

Don't post employee names!

 

I think this is something you are going to have to work through with Tech Support.

 

I apologize for that. It is odd that someone would think that Windows Movie Maker was an appropriate app for capturing HD material though, don't you ?

 

Again, sorry for the names.

 

I was under the impression that I WAS working with tech support.

 

Sorry,

TheDoctor

[ggrussell]

James just meant that posting HERE will probably not get you a solution as this forum is not tech support. This is mainly user to user although once in awhile a Roxio employee may log in.

 

Your problem is typical when adopting new technology that isn't main stream yet. Not many people can afford HD camcorders so software compatibility will not be optimal. As i stated before, HD camcorders do NOT use the same encoding on tape as SD camcorder which use DV AVI (which tech support pointed out and clearly stated twice that your camcorder is not supported). Most software is expecting DV AVI encoding when capturing via firewire. HDV uses a special MPEG 2 encoding. At this point, I don't know of ANY 'consumer' product that captures HDV via firewire. Adobe Premiere Elements 3 or Sony Vegas Studio 7 MIGHT. I don't know for sure. Add to this situation , that ALL HD Camcorders may not even use the same encoding. I would suggest going to Sony's website and see what software they suggest for capturing from the HVR-A1U. I'm really surprised there was no software included especially at the price of the camcorder. Sony should have included some nice high-end software like their own Vegas 7.

[TheDoctor]

James just meant that posting HERE will probably not get you a solution as this forum is not tech support. This is mainly user to user although once in awhile a Roxio employee may log in.

 

Your problem is typical when adopting new technology that isn't main stream yet. Not many people can afford HD camcorders so software compatibility will not be optimal. As i stated before, HD camcorders do NOT use the same encoding on tape as SD camcorder which use DV AVI (which tech support pointed out and clearly stated twice that your camcorder is not supported). Most software is expecting DV AVI encoding when capturing via firewire. HDV uses a special MPEG 2 encoding. At this point, I don't know of ANY 'consumer' product that captures HDV via firewire. Adobe Premiere Elements 3 or Sony Vegas Studio 7 MIGHT. I don't know for sure. Add to this situation , that ALL HD Camcorders may not even use the same encoding. I would suggest going to Sony's website and see what software they suggest for capturing from the HVR-A1U. I'm really surprised there was no software included especially at the price of the camcorder. Sony should have included some nice high-end software like their own Vegas 7.

 

Thanks for your response. If you look, this issue has been lingering since September, when I started a VERY important football recruiting video. I felt pretty hamstrung. And your guess was exactly right, the $700 Vegas Suite is the starting point for Sony's HD software. They even suggested a package (first inquiry around) that didn't handle their own HD, so, I feel like I'm still in the "spin cycle". So, I apologize for my initial "titled" entry. I am lucky that I can afford a suite like that on top of the camcorder & Dell XPS 700 (which you'll notice I added 2 more hard drives & upgraded the video cards a bit) that was "loaded".

 

I guess that I am a little fatigued with the issue. Forgive me "GGR". It isn't the first computer/tech issue that I have burned the midnight oil over; for sure. I am sure we have all burned that petrol.

 

I will go back and redact the employees names. That was pretty thoughtless.

 

Cheers "GGR" and thanks for responding.

 

TheDoctor.

 

 

Don't post employee names!

 

I think this is something you are going to have to work through with Tech Support.

 

I apologize again for the employee names. I think that I redacted them all. If I missed one, please let me know.

 

TheDoctor

[ggrussell]

Many years ago, I always wanted to be on the 'bleeding edge' of technology. I'm old enough now to know better. LOL Like Vista is the first Windows OS that I have NOT been standing in line to buy. IMHO, it just doesn't offer anything new that I want or need plus I really hate the new interface.

 

I've been thinking about jumping on the HD bandwagon, but I have seen way too many people on the net having the same problems. Software just hasn't caught up 'yet'. Eventually that will happen. There aren't even many HD broadcasts yet where I live.

[TheDoctor]

Many years ago, I always wanted to be on the 'bleeding edge' of technology. I'm old enough now to know better. LOL Like Vista is the first Windows OS that I have NOT been standing in line to buy. IMHO, it just doesn't offer anything new that I want or need plus I really hate the new interface.

 

I've been thinking about jumping on the HD bandwagon, but I have seen way too many people on the net having the same problems. Software just hasn't caught up 'yet'. Eventually that will happen. There aren't even many HD broadcasts yet where I live.

 

IMHO, you show wisdom. I have passed on the notion of Vista for a long now. I realize that I jumped into a technology that still has a burning and playback war (Blu-Ray/HD-DVD) going on at the same time. I just wanted the highest quality productions I could make, whether they required getting down converted for distribute at this point or not. If they stay on the tape for a while, they'll be burnable and I'll have something in the quality I want. In fact, I wish I had the device when I had a field pass to USC games in 1974 and Anthony Davis was running into legend status. Just showed him my Nikon F2 Photomic shots this year. Now, he wants me to scan in the over 400 shots in B&W that I took at the Iowa & Stanford games.

 

I have a Nikon CoolScan 5000 to do the tedious job (wish I'd never cut them and left them in rolls !!!!).

 

But, you're right. My sweetheart and I were just saying, as we went through a local retailer's throw away paper, "Look at the technology that you can get, that is time tested stable, and we've "romped all over' to know backwards and forwards, at these ridiculous prices and will more than do 80% of whatever we want to do" (except edit HD video).

 

You're a wise man GGR.

[ggrussell]

You're a wise man GGR.

Sounds like we are about the same age so we both have earned that title. I just shot a 10th aniversary vow renewal ceremony and wish I had that camcorder! Below are a few websites that I found that may be of interest. Looks like HDV is a special MPEG 2 stream that also includes date/time code.

 

Here is some interesting HD info

 

Here is a freebie that can capture

[TheDoctor]

Sounds like we are about the same age so we both have earned that title. I just shot a 10th aniversary vow renewal ceremony and wish I had that camcorder! Below are a few websites that I found that may be of interest. Looks like HDV is a special MPEG 2 stream that also includes date/time code.

 

Here is some interesting HD info

 

Here is a freebie that can capture

 

Pleasant surprise, Dr. GGR, to awaken to your note, because, as I was perusing the issue on the Sony site (or a "stray utility" or insight), I came across an article that I thought that I might share with you. Now, I have to find it, as even the topic has become "hazy". Yes, wisdom; actually, as we dirt bike riders used to call it "beef jerky" (scabs from "incidents unfortunate) in cummulative quantities over a certain, but quantifiable number of years, we can deem "wisdom".

 

Let me see if I can fetch that article; I believe that I saved it to my workhorse Inspiron 8200 laptop. Actually, since I bought the unit in about June a year ago from a mail order house w/tele's, I conference called a purchase with USC & All American Volleyball star of the 70s & 80s, Steve Obradovich, and the unit was barely over $1900 !!!! Obradovich couldn't believe it and heaved every HiDef Wide Angle, Telephoto, case, lens & battery of battery lengths in with his order. See, it is his daughter's turn to be the center of promise and he wanted to chronicle it. Really, it's quite affordable for what it is, with the XLR set and all. Might work in your "quill".

 

I appreciate the references and will walk them ASAP.

 

I believe that it was this search, with all its links that I was going to share Dr. GGR:

 

My Search

 

Cheers GGR

 

PS - I like my age in prime number formulas anymore. I am 2 times 3 cubed.

[barryware]

And your guess was exactly right, the $700 Vegas Suite is the starting point for Sony's HD software.

 

TheDoctor

 

Just an FYI. You don't need the Sony $700.00 Suite to capture the HD from your Sony camera. The Studio Series Platenim version (Movie Studio + DVD Platinum - $90.00 if you shop around) WILL capture the HD. However, it needs a firewire or preferably an Ilink port on your computer. You will not be able to use a USB for HD (at least I have not been able to figure it out).

 

When you bought your camera, in the box was order forms and stuff for the big expensive professional grade software package. They didn't give you the order forms for the less expensive home user software.

 

I can't remember the last time I needed to mix 7.1 surround sound.