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Out of sequence playback on music DVDs


bdiament

Question

Hello everyone,

 

I have used Toast Titanium 7 to create Music DVDs containing 24 bit, 96k sampled audio (and no video outside of the navigation menus).

 

While this has worked, I've noticed what might be a bug related to the "table of contents" (assuming DVDs have this counterpart to what is encoded on CDs).

If I play the disc straight through, all is fine. If I navigate to a particular tune, that tune plays.

 

However, when I don't play the disc straight through, for example if I navigate to song #4 and play it, it does not necessarily go to song #5 after song #4 completes. It will often go, for example, to song #2.

 

Similarly, if I start with song #1 but use the fast-forward button to get to a point near the end of the song, the next track that plays after song #1 ends is not necessarily song #2 as I would expect.

 

It seems anything other than straight play through results in the player "losing its place" on the disc and if left to continue playing, the order may change instead of following the sequence of the disc.

 

Is this a bug in Toast Titanium 7?

 

Any light anyone can shed on this would be appreciated.

 

Thank you.

 

Sincerely,

Barry Diament

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

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I have good or bad news depending on your point of view. I've tested with several different mixes of tracks and all my music DVDs skip to the next track in order instead of skipping in a random order. Also, my DVD player (a Pioneer) does not let me fast play a track so I couldn't test if that made any difference.

 

If I choose Shuffle play in the DVDs menu and later press a chapter skip button the player advances to the next track in order, effectively cancelling the shuffle play mode...

 

Hi Thomas,

 

Was this with Toast 7 or 8?

I will have to try the discs on another player then.

I'm expecting delivery of a new one soon.

 

I suppose that IS good news.

 

Thanks for looking into this.

 

I believe the controls are related more to the player than anything. Toast DVD pass all the DVD verifiers. If the order is not working, it could be the player.

 

Hi freshburn,

 

I'm expecting a new DVD player in the next week or two so I'll try that and see.

I sure hope it is my old player and not the encoding of the discs that caused the problem.

 

Thanks for your input on this.

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

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Hi Thomas,

 

Was this with Toast 7 or 8?

I did the test with both Toast 7 and 8. Same result with chapter skipping. Oddly, I didn't notice the "ringing" sound from the upsampling to 24/96 when using Toast 8 but it was very noticeable when using Toast 7. Since I wasn't trying to evaluate audio quality I didn't pay that much attention, but it seemed the Toast 8 version sounded better. I'm certainly going to be using Toast 8 for any music DVDs because of its improved media browser, automatic transfer of album art, better menu options and - possibly - better audio encoding.

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Hi Thomas,

 

Thank you. I'd be very interested in what you find and whether the situation is different with Toast 8.

 

Good to know there is a way to bring old Toast .disc files into Toast 8.

And good to know Roxio folks read the posts here. I hope they address this issue since 24/96 music DVDs were my motivation for purchasing Toast in the first place.

 

I appreciate your perspective and as in the past, have found your posts a help.

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

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Barry-

Hi...just wanted to let you know I was reading your posts regarding your problems skipping tracks out of order with audio DVD's and wanted to let you know I've had an identical problem with toast 8. It's extremely annoying. I tried using different media, slower burn speeds, but to no avail. I suppose it could be the compatibility with the player but I have to say I find this a major drawback to toast in general since the audio dvd at 24/96 is one major appeal to me of the program.

Anyway, thought I'd just provide the feedback.

Best-

Jon

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Barry,

 

I have good or bad news depending on your point of view. I've tested with several different mixes of tracks and all my music DVDs skip to the next track in order instead of skipping in a random order. Also, my DVD player (a Pioneer) does not let me fast play a track so I couldn't test if that made any difference.

 

If I choose Shuffle play in the DVDs menu and later press a chapter skip button the player advances to the next track in order, effectively cancelling the shuffle play mode.

 

I discovered one important difference between the Toast 8 and 7 music DVD format. Toast 8 automatically included the album art from iTunes when I added the tracks to Toast, whereas Toast 7 did not add the art.

 

Toast upsampled my 16/44.1 tracks to 24/96 when I selected that setting in the custom encoder window. As expected, doing that made it sound worse but I wanted to be using the same format you are using.

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Unfortunately I think this is the normal behavior of the music DVD playback. By the way, can you discern any logic to the reordered playback such as the songs playing back in alphabetical order?

 

Hi tsantee,

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

"Normal behavior"? That is not good news.

I don't know yet if there is a pattern. I can say it definitely is NOT alphabetical.

Often, I see track #3 (if I fast forward toward its end) will go into track #2 but sometimes it goes into track #6 (out of the 10 tracks on the disc I've been working with lately).

It DOES appear to be those most of the time but I haven't seen a consistent pattern yet.

 

The only thing that appears to be consistent is that track #3 (when fast forwarded toward the end) never seems to go into track #4 as I'd expect it to.

 

I will say that I consider this a serious flaw in Toast and it will prevent me from upgrading beyond version 7 until I hear of some improvement in the program's behavior.

This, combined with what I'm hearing about version 8 not being able to read version 7 audio CDs is frankly, a major turn off.

I'll use version 7 until Roxio fixes some serious flaws or until I find competing software that accomplished what I want to do.

 

Thank you for your much appreciated input though.

Do you have any connections with Roxio, where you could pass on some user feedback?

 

I have a record label that offers 24/96 versions of our albums on DVD-R (in addition to pressed CDs and one-off CD-Rs). Toast has been the software I use for the DVD-Rs but I want to offer my customers something better in the future. I hope Roxio takes this feedback seriously.

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

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Barry,

 

You've piqued my interest in this and I'll do some digging and testing of some music DVDs.

 

I don't have any ties to Roxio but I do know that Roxio folks read most of the posts. This issue of music DVD playback after you manually change the playing has been raised before. At least I know that the random playback or playback by artist or album gets lost if you try to skip ahead a track or fast forward. Since I have Toast 8 I'll check if anything is different. But you'll have to give me a few days.

 

By the way, the issue Toast 8 has with Toast 7 or 6 audio CDs is with reading a .disc file. Toast 8 can read the earlier S2df image files and individual tracks just fine. If someone wants to use a Toast 7 audio CD .disc file with Toast 8 they would need to first open it in Toast 7, save as a disc image and then drag the resulting .sd2f file to Toast 8. They then could save a new Toast 8 .disc file.

 

By the way, sometimes when I try to explain things about Toast people think I'm glossing over what they are displeased about. I try to stay emotionally distant but some think I'm taking Roxio's side. I hope you understand my neutrality does not mean I'm defending Toast.

 

Thomas

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