Copying Tv Video Recorded On A Domestic Dvd Recorder

[grlspggn]

I have asked this question several times on other forums and got the answers yes it will/doesn't work for me/try this/that worked/not for me/no problem etc.etc. Given the advice on the forums, Roxio's web site is too vague to justify the cost of buying Toast 7 only to find in 5 minutes that it will not do what I want.

 

My question: I have a video recorded from TV on to a DVD-RW on my domestic DVD recorder. I want to copy it on to another DVD-RW to send to my family elsewhere. Will Toast 7 do this with the setup described below?

 

I have tried to mount DVD-RW discs formatted in VR mode and in Video mode, Finalised and unFinalised, but either they will not mount on my desktop or if they do, the DVD is shown as empty.

 

My setup: Mac G5/2 GHz (July 2004), 1 GB RAM, OS 10.3.4 DVD Recorder in the Mac= PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-107D (Drive Type = CD-RW/DVD-RW), DVD recorder used to record the TV programs = Pioneer DVR-RT-501-s (two months old).

 

MacTheRipper will not recognise the DVDs. I have asked Roxio's web support but got no reply.

 

Is there anyone who can answer my question by saying that they have actually done it successfully?

[tsantee]

They're definitely VR discs, and Toast rightly identifies them as such.

The Export Video option only becomes available once I've dragged a title from the Media Browser to the main window. After this, Export Video becomes available for any title highlighted in the browser.

 

It's a strange problem! The G5 Superdrive is a Pioneer DVR-109.

Okay, so the export video option is from the extracted MPEG and not from the disc. It makes sense then that the its length is the same as the extracted MPEG.

 

I've done some tests about this and have found some odd results. For example, a 45:44 VR title extracted by Toast became 45:25 after Toast autored it to video DVD. (Toast only multiplexed this video; there was no re-encoding). So this supports your experience with the cut short video. However, when played the Toast burned DVD ends only 1-second earlier than when I play the VR disc on the Pioneer player. So I don't understand what is happening about the time. At least for me the video is the full length except for the last second. I suppose I could use a clock to actually time the original and copy to see if it is just an error in the reported time rather than the actual playing time.

[jwkay]

Not sure, there are probably several different bit rates used on the disc.

I'll do a test recording tomorrow using MN19 and report back. Thanks for your help!

 

New recording today using MN19.

Duration reported by recorder: 27:15

Duration reported by Toast: 27:15

DV file opened in QuickTime: 27:15

 

Video and audio freeze at 27:10, file continues to play.

 

The only thing I can think of is that I'm using PAL which has a different frame rate (25 fps rather than 30).

Could that account for the difference? (Grasping at straws....)

[jwkay]

Okay, so the export video option is from the extracted MPEG and not from the disc. It makes sense then that the its length is the same as the extracted MPEG.

 

I've done some tests about this and have found some odd results. For example, a 45:44 VR title extracted by Toast became 45:25 after Toast autored it to video DVD. (Toast only multiplexed this video; there was no re-encoding). So this supports your experience with the cut short video.

 

Have done a similar test, too, but with different results!

VR title length reported by the DVD Recorder: 41:48

VR title length reported by Toast: 41:48

Exported the video to a DV file, opened it in QuickTime; length: 41:49

 

During playback, all is normal until 41:39. Then video & audio freezes; however, the file continues to play for its full duration.

[tsantee]

What is the encoding rate used with the Pioneer? My example was with MN19 which is the lowest rate that still uses 720x480 resolution. I know our recorders have the same encoders so it might help if I do tests using the same settings you are using.

[tsantee]

New recording today using MN19.

Duration reported by recorder: 27:15

Duration reported by Toast: 27:15

DV file opened in QuickTime: 27:15

 

Video and audio freeze at 27:10, file continues to play.

 

The only thing I can think of is that I'm using PAL which has a different frame rate (25 fps rather than 30).

Could that account for the difference? (Grasping at straws....)

I need to think more about this. My gear is NTSC so PAL may be the issue although I can't figure why it would make any difference.

 

In the meanwhile, if your ultimate goal was having DV video from the VR-mode disc you can connect the Pioneer DVR-320 to your Mac via Firewire and have iMovie (and some other apps but not Toast) capture the DV export from the Pioneer. Your and my DVD recorders are among the very few that export DV via Firewire and iMovie recognizes the recorder as a connected camera.

[jwkay]

What is the encoding rate used with the Pioneer? My example was with MN19 which is the lowest rate that still uses 720x480 resolution. I know our recorders have the same encoders so it might help if I do tests using the same settings you are using.

 

Not sure, there are probably several different bit rates used on the disc.

I'll do a test recording tomorrow using MN19 and report back. Thanks for your help!

[mike457]

I have an LG recorder; its finalized disks have a Video-TS folder. On my iMac G5, I have been able to copy the disk directly with Toast. Usually, I want to do some editing, so I copy the Video-TS folder to my hard drive, run DVDxDV on it, delete the commercials in Quicktime Pro, and then use Toast either to reconvert the file to a DVD or to DivX format.

[tsantee]

I have a Pioneer DVR-510H standalone recorder and have used Toast 7 to extract its MPEGs from unfinalized VR-mode DVD-RW discs or from finalized video-mode DVD-R or DVD-RW discs. Once extracted I can have Toast author and burn a video DVD to R or RW media. Toast will not make a duplicate VR-mode DVD-RW disc. It can make a duplicate finalized video-mode DVD-RW, however.

 

I have done this in OS 10.3.9 and 10.4.x on a G4 iBook and in 10.4.x on a G5 iMac iSight. The extraction from VR-mode DVD-RW works fine using my LaCie/NEC Firewire drive and my iMac's Matshita Superdrive. It doesn't work with my iBook's Matshita Combo drive as it refuses to recognize the VR-mode disc.

 

The process is to insert the VR-mode DVD-RW. Using Toast 7's media browser you can select the titles recorded to the disc and drag them to the Toast Video window. This extracts the MPEG video from the disc and writes them to the Roxio Converted Items folder. It is now easy to use the extracted MPEGs to create a new video DVD.

 

Any video DVD burned by Toast is finalized.

[tsantee]

I have an LG recorder; its finalized disks have a Video-TS folder. On my iMac G5, I have been able to copy the disk directly with Toast. Usually, I want to do some editing, so I copy the Video-TS folder to my hard drive, run DVDxDV on it, delete the commercials in Quicktime Pro, and then use Toast either to reconvert the file to a DVD or to DivX format.

You can save yourself some time and prevent any quality loss by the multiple format conversions by using an application called Capty MPEGEdit EX. It lets you edit the MPEGs without the need to convert them. What I do is extract the MPEG from the DVD with Toast's Media Browser and then drag that MPEG from the Roxio Converted Items folder to Capty MPEGEdit. After saving the edited MPEG I drag that file into Toast's Video window and delete the one that Toast had extracted. This application is available at www.pixela-1.com.

 

You also can burn unfinalized VR-mode DVD-RW discs with your LG recorder and use Toast's Media Browser to extract those MPEGs. The only variable here is if you have an older DVD drive in your Mac it may not be able to read a VR-mode DVD.

[grlspggn]

If you have the time, I would appreciate a simple description of the different mpegs - what they are, what they do, sort of thing. I have browsed the Internet but got things like "The smallest theoretically achievable average code word length for lossless compression is equal to the entropy of the source." I have a BSc degree in Electrical Engineering and am, I think, reasonable intelligent and tech-savvy, but such explanations are for (equally intelligent) geeks rather than for people trying to do something useful without delving into the innards of video. Someone once said (myself actually) "Experts are really great, until they start explaining something." (Yourself excluded, of course.)

[grlspggn]

The one and only clear definitive answer that I have got on this. Thanks so much.

[tsantee]

If you have the time, I would appreciate a simple description of the different mpegs - what they are, what they do, sort of thing. I have browsed the Internet but got things like "The smallest theoretically achievable average code word length for lossless compression is equal to the entropy of the source." I have a BSc degree in Electrical Engineering and am, I think, reasonable intelligent and tech-savvy, but such explanations are for (equally intelligent) geeks rather than for people trying to do something useful without delving into the innards of video. Someone once said (myself actually) "Experts are really great, until they start explaining something." (Yourself excluded, of course.)

I presume you're asking about the difference between the video-mode and VR-mode DVDs recorded on a standalone recorder. They all are MPEG 2 format which is the standard for video DVDs. (There is a glossary at Videohelp.com that can explain MPEG 2).

 

A video-mode DVD is "authored" to the video DVD spec so it can be played on most any DVD player. A VR-mode DVD is formatted differently which allows for various kinds of editing after recording. With my Pioneer standalone recorder and prior to Toast 7.0.2 I had to use VR-mode for Toast to properly extract the MPEGs. Now it doesn't make any difference to Toast if it is VR-mode or video mode. VR-mode saves me a little time because I don't have to finalize the disc on the Pioneer recorder as I do with the video mode DVDs.

 

Once extracted the VR-mode and video-mode MPEGs are pretty much the same unless they were recorded at a different setting in the standalone recorder.

 

Is this what you wanted to know?

[grlspggn]

Yes thanks. Videohelp.com was useful.

[jwkay]

I am having a problem doing this.

My setup: 2x2GHz G5, 2.5GB RAM.

Toast will let me extract the video from a DVD-VR disc and will burn a DVD-Video which works fine.

 

However: It is cutting off the end of each movie from the VR disc (approximately the last 10 seconds or so)!

This also happens when using Disc->Export Video. I've tried several different VR-mode discs and always get the same problem.

 

Can anyone offer any advice? The DVD-VRs are all produced on a Pioneer DVR320.

[jwkay]

In the meanwhile, if your ultimate goal was having DV video from the VR-mode disc you can connect the Pioneer DVR-320 to your Mac via Firewire and have iMovie (and some other apps but not Toast) capture the DV export from the Pioneer. Your and my DVD recorders are among the very few that export DV via Firewire and iMovie recognizes the recorder as a connected camera.

 

Thanks for the workaround! I didn't know the DV port did export as well as import.

My goal was to get video from a DVD-VR onto a DVD-Video, and the workaround lets me do this. A bit more time-consuming, but it works!

[tsantee]

I am having a problem doing this.

My setup: 2x2GHz G5, 2.5GB RAM.

Toast will let me extract the video from a DVD-VR disc and will burn a DVD-Video which works fine.

 

However: It is cutting off the end of each movie from the VR disc (approximately the last 10 seconds or so)!

This also happens when using Disc->Export Video. I've tried several different VR-mode discs and always get the same problem.

 

Can anyone offer any advice? The DVD-VRs are all produced on a Pioneer DVR320.

Your problem has me puzzled. I'm using VR-mode DVD-RW discs recorded with my Pioneer DVR-520H and haven't experienced this issue. Also, how do you get the Disc>Export Video option to be active? When I insert the VR-mode disc in my G5 iMac iSight using either its Matshita superdrive or a Firewire LaCie drive the Disc>Export Video option is not available. The only thing that works is using the Media Browser.

 

Is it possible your Pioneer recorder is set to record DVD-RW discs in Video mode rather than in VR-mode? If so, you'd need finalize the disc on the Pioneer recorder before using Toast to extract the video.

[jwkay]

Your problem has me puzzled. I'm using VR-mode DVD-RW discs recorded with my Pioneer DVR-520H and haven't experienced this issue. Also, how do you get the Disc>Export Video option to be active? When I insert the VR-mode disc in my G5 iMac iSight using either its Matshita superdrive or a Firewire LaCie drive the Disc>Export Video option is not available. The only thing that works is using the Media Browser.

 

Is it possible your Pioneer recorder is set to record DVD-RW discs in Video mode rather than in VR-mode? If so, you'd need finalize the disc on the Pioneer recorder before using Toast to extract the video.

 

They're definitely VR discs, and Toast rightly identifies them as such.

The Export Video option only becomes available once I've dragged a title from the Media Browser to the main window. After this, Export Video becomes available for any title highlighted in the browser.

 

It's a strange problem! The G5 Superdrive is a Pioneer DVR-109.