Pro Mastering Feature Bugs

[jon Hiseman]

Having bought T8 because its an upgrade and incorporates Jam for Pro Mastering, should I expect its key features to be missing?

I often need to cut a long continuous audio file into CD tracks(live concert sets etc.) In Jam, using AIFF or SDII files the process of exporting region definitions in Logic or Pro Tools and importing the Audio file into Jam worked fine - not now with T8 though. When you do fix this maybe the feature could support .WAV files.

I must have the ability to print out the Mastering details as with Jam - But T8 does not support this. Chaps - IT'S ESSENTIAL

And if I create a disc image of an album, T8 creates the usual SD2f file. I put this up on my idisk where its collected by an American producer. But his toast 8 won't opening any way he tries - it keeps on telling him its a SOUND DESIGNER II FILE. If I download it back to another mac it opens fine. Does the US version differ from the European?

OK so there are bugs in a new release - that's not really acceptable in a pro world but the key question is how soon before they are fixed - days would be nice - 14 days OK - but longer.............

[ghobish]

Something else JAM will do but Taost 8 won't: allow you to do an "audio starts in pause" of more than 20 seconds. I do a lot of live albums and commonly use this feature so the clock "counts down" during the appluse between tracks. JAM had no limitation on the legnth of the pause, but Taost limits it to 20 sec. Why? It's not like that code had to be rewritten, it was basicall rolled into Toast from existing code in JAM.

 

Also, as I mentioned in another post in this forum, JAM 6.0.3 basically seems to work in Leopard (on a G5 anyway, haven't tested it in Leopard on an Intel though it seems to run fine under Toger/Rosetta on my MPB), except I think there is a problem under Quicktime 7.4.1 wherein it crashes when it plays the "bing" after burning (the burn itself is usually successful). What a shame if the freakin' "bing" is the only reason JAM finally dies, unless Roxio does even a minor update to allow you to disable the "bing."

 

(This is also a problem in Toast; with the "bing" active, it will crash after playing any audio at all; disable the bing and it's mostly OK but will still crash after previewing anything from the Fades window.)

 

Add me to the list of those decrying lack of SD2 region support and a lack of a printable timing sheet to Toast, and then saying "Toast is not a pro application" while letting JAM languish.

 

And the lack of an ability to contact tech support through email apart from the ridiculous "Roxsanne" is deplorable.

[sub]

Toast 8 is not meant to be a Jam replacement, nor is it aimed at Pro users. It's meant to bring the best parts of Jam to average users. Split WAV, Split AIFF and printing are not need by non-pros.

 

I am not a pro user, but I would like the ability to split sound files and import regions into Toast. I have been a bedroom dj for quite some time now, and have kept my old mac running OS9 for Adaptec Jam 2.6.2 as I am able to record and edit SDII files and then create regions.

 

Yes I know, I could create AIFF files, cut them up, and then burn a disc DAO in Toast, but it is a pain in the backside. Anyway, I think I would buy the latest Jam for my MacBook, but I can't see the point of buying an outdated Toast and Jam package. Why can't you buy Jam on it's own? I've already bought Toast 7 and upgraded to 8.

[John at Roxio]

I think you missed the point. The point is that the features you want are pro features. Toast is meant to bring the best parts of Jam to average users. It is not meant to be a replacement for the pro features of Jam. This is a design decision, there is nothing to agree/disagree about.

If you share the files in another way, can you open them on the other systems? If so, that tends to show that something on the idisk changed in the file. I have had idisk change simple excel spreadsheets to zip files without asking me so I am not all that surprised by your results.

[thin ice]

I've just come across these limitations as well. It would be great just to be able to add a pq point in the middle of a file. Instead of that I have to split the files in another application and then join them again in Toast just to get a track number on a CD. If this is meant to be a lite feature, why not port Jam to intel?

[manmademusic]

Does Toast 8 read Jam session files?

[John Link]

Does Toast 8 read Jam session files?

I just verified that it does not.

 

John Link

[Mark Wheaton]

The claim that toast is not meant to be a Jam replacement flies against the reality that it is advertised as a Jam replacement and there are no upgraded versions of Jam out there. And Toast is not supporting key Pro Audio features despite saying you can turn these features on in it's preferences.

 

Could it be that Sonic wants the pro users to convert to Premaster? If so it should do one very simple thing: Allow Jam docs to be opened in Pre Master. The fact is I have PreMaster and it is buggie and hard to use. I still use Jam 6.0.3 on my PPC G5 with OS X 10.4.9 and fear that when I upgrade either to Leopard or an Intel Mac I will lose my ability to use Jam.

 

Another option:

Toast should allow you to open old Jam documents.

 

Finally:

Jam should be upgraded to work with the latest OS's or it's full feature set should be wrapped into Toast. Including the ability to print timing sheets, open split stereo files and open old Jam Docs.

[manmademusic]

Why on earth would Roxio strand us like this? It makes no sense.

 

For shame Roxio! Adaptec would have never let these very important features slide.

[Mark107]

I think you missed the point. The point is that the features you want are pro features. Toast is meant to bring the best parts of Jam to average users. It is not meant to be a replacement for the pro features of Jam. This is a design decision, there is nothing to agree/disagree about.

If you share the files in another way, can you open them on the other systems? If so, that tends to show that something on the idisk changed in the file. I have had idisk change simple excel spreadsheets to zip files without asking me so I am not all that surprised by your results.

 

 

If Jam gets updated, then fine. If Jam is not going to be updated, but merely rolled into Toast, then definitely NOT fine.

 

We need the pro features of Jam (including being able to print a timing sheet), or we need Jam to be updated. To do neither is maddening.

[sdesign]

I just verified that it does not.

 

John Link

 

Does Toast 8 allow you to open playlist that were made in earlier versions such as Toast 7. And if not how could update previous playlist to burn in 8.o ??

 

thanx

[jon Hiseman]

Toast 8 is not meant to be a Jam replacement, nor is it aimed at Pro users. It's meant to bring the best parts of Jam to average users. Split WAV, Split AIFF and printing are not need by non-pros.

 

The US and European version are identical. Toast audio images are SDII files, but the image may get corrupted on the .Mac drive. I suggest zipping it before posting.

 

 

Well I can't agree with any of this - If you try to use SDII files in Pro Tools it now warns you that you are using a file format which will seriously affect the compatibility of your sessions. .WAV is fast becoming the international standard for manipulating Audio files and with many hardware /software audio recording and editing packages starting at under $600 (400GBP) and using this format by default I fail to see your logic.

If what you say about JAM being the proApp of choice is true will it be upgraded to Intel native and with support for .Wav files throughout its facilities?

And the files I put up on my idisk were not corrupted in any way - I downloaded them to my power book, installed toast 8 and they played perfectly. But they will not open without an error message on three separate versions of Toast 8 on three separate computers, purchased separately by download in the USA - So I repeat - what's going on.

[freshburn]

Toast 8 is not meant to be a Jam replacement, nor is it aimed at Pro users. It's meant to bring the best parts of Jam to average users. Split WAV, Split AIFF and printing are not need by non-pros.

 

The US and European version are identical. Toast audio images are SDII files, but the image may get corrupted on the .Mac drive. I suggest zipping it before posting.

[lush1]

If you want pro features, don't bother with Toast 8. Hang on to Jam. I just got Toast 8 and I am very disappointed in the audio feature set. Toast now supports split stereo files, has the crossfade features from Jam, but it doesn't have any provision to show the PQ, start, gap, end times and you can't save a text file of the session.

 

It does allow you to add plug-ins to your tracks, which is nice, but you can't put a plug-in on the entire session. So if you wanted to put a peak limiter on your mix, you would actually have to put a limiter on each track. My Waves plug-ins didn't work very well. I was able to instantiate them on tracks, but the windows didn't completely draw so I could see the meters, but not the buttons! It also crashed the session. The AU plug-ins seemed to work o.k.

 

I really miss Wave Burner Pro. It was the best CD mastering software I ever used, but they never came out with an OS X version. I think all of the WBP features are now in Logic, but I don't want to spend that much money to buy Logic. I'm a Pro Tools user who just wants a good mastering program that shows the files as waveforms, supports plug-ins on tracks AND the 2 mix, can print and allows me to put start IDs and index marks wherever I want them. I turned to Jam when I went to OS X and had to give up Wave Burner. Jam was a poor substitute, but it got the job done. Toast 8 can't even do what Jam 6 does. Fugetaboutit

[Darney]

The claim that toast is not meant to be a Jam replacement flies against the reality that it is advertised as a Jam replacement and there are no upgraded versions of Jam out there. And Toast is not supporting key Pro Audio features despite saying you can turn these features on in it's preferences.

 

Could it be that Sonic wants the pro users to convert to Premaster? If so it should do one very simple thing: Allow Jam docs to be opened in Pre Master. The fact is I have PreMaster and it is buggie and hard to use. I still use Jam 6.0.3 on my PPC G5 with OS X 10.4.9 and fear that when I upgrade either to Leopard or an Intel Mac I will lose my ability to use Jam.

 

Another option:

Toast should allow you to open old Jam documents.

 

Finally:

Jam should be upgraded to work with the latest OS's or it's full feature set should be wrapped into Toast. Including the ability to print timing sheets, open split stereo files and open old Jam Docs.

 

It is with wry amusement that I see Roxio's response. I have to agree.. the ability to PRINT is absolutely essential. What I'm seeing here is that I have wasted my money by upgrading to Toast 8, when Jam 5 has everything I need.

 

Virtually ALL of the Jam functions are present in Toast except the print ability.

This makes me question why I would ever upgrade a Roxio product in the future when a 3 version old program does exactly what I need.

 

(your results may vary)

[John Link]

Toast is meant to bring the best parts of Jam to average users. It is not meant to be a replacement for the pro features of Jam.

So will Jam ever be updated? Will any of the bugs ever be fixed?

 

Why is Jam not listed on the products page? http://www.roxio.com/enu/products/allproducts.html

 

John Link