reencoding Eyetv recordings in toast8 and not in Toast7?

[klend]

Hi,

 

 

I have found out that one DVD-compliant (or so I think) DVB-T asset recorded with Eyetv gets re-encoded by Toast8 whereas it does not with Toast7. My question is how this can be and above all, whether there really is a way to not re-encode with Toast. (I would welcome a 'force not' option).

 

 

Below is some more detail, quite long, but this might help to look into it. I would really appreciate any information as to why this happens.

(By the way: always a 'multiplexing' occurs)

 

Thanks in advance,

Hendrik

 

Original EyeTV info: All info obtained through MPEG Streamclip by the way

Stream: 000000000b99edf4.mpg

Path: ~/Documents/EyeTV Archive/Shouf Shouf de serie - Kat van huis.eyetv/000000000b99edf4.mpg

Type: MPEG transport stream

 

Duration: 0:25:00

Data Size: 587.56 MB

Bit Rate: 3.28 Mbps

 

Video Tracks:

7031 MPEG-2, 704 × 576, 4:3, 25 fps, 15.00 Mbps, upper field first

 

Audio Tracks:

7032 MP2 stereo (joint), 48 kHz, 160 kbps

 

Stream Files:

000000000b99edf4.mpg (587.56 MB)

 

 

 

Created by Toast 7, without re-encoding.

Settings: encode never, top field first, 4:3

 

Stream: VTS_01_1.VOB

Path: /Volumes/My DVD/VIDEO_TS/VTS_01_1.VOB

Type: VOB program stream

 

Duration: 0:21:36

Data Size: 453.31 MB

Bit Rate: 2.93 Mbps

 

Video Tracks:

224 MPEG-2, 704 × 576, 4:3, 25 fps, 15.00 Mbps, upper field first

 

Audio Tracks:

192 MP2 stereo (joint), 48 kHz, 160 kbps

 

Stream Files:

VTS_01_1.VOB (453.31 MB)

 

Files in Roxio Converted Items, while reencoding with Toast8:

 

000000000b99edf4.PAL.704x576.80Mb.4x3.M15.H1.T1.P0.4C91.m2v.tmp

000000000b99edf4.160kBit.48kHz.P0.4C91.m1a.tmp

 

Stream: shouf.m2v

Path: ~/Documents/Roxio Converted Items/shouf.m2v

Type: MPEG elementary stream

 

Duration: 0:00:15

Data Size: 11.83 MB

Bit Rate: 6.56 Mbps

 

Video Tracks:

224 MPEG-2, 704 × 576, 4:3, 25 fps, 8.00 Mbps, upper field first

 

Audio Tracks:

192 MP2 stereo, 48 kHz, 160 kbps

 

Stream Files:

shouf.m2v (10.89 MB)

shouf.m1a

 

 

Final result:

With toast8, same settings, obtained from disc image

Stream: VTS_01_1.VOB

Path: /Volumes/My DVD 1/VIDEO_TS/VTS_01_1.VOB

Type: VOB program stream

 

Duration: 0:21:12

Data Size: 1008.09 MB

Bit Rate: 6.64 Mbps

 

Video Tracks:

224 MPEG-2, 704 × 576, 4:3, 25 fps, 8.00 Mbps, upper field first

 

Audio Tracks:

192 MP2 stereo, 48 kHz, 160 kbps

 

Stream Files:

VTS_01_1.VOB (1008.09 MB)

[klend]

The files is not DVD compliant. It is 15 Mbps which is way over the limit for a DVD. DVD have a limit slightly over 10Mbps.

 

Toast 7 should also re-encode the file. I think the reason you are not seeing this is because you have a file in the Roxio Converted Items folder. Toast 7 knows the file had been encoded already and re-used that file. If you empty the folder, Toast 7 would also re-encode.

 

I could be wrong though.

 

Thanks for the info. I don't know if I entirely agree to it right now (for one, the average bitrate is a mere 3mb/s or so). My main concern has switched a bit now: Whatever I try, I always get a 18678 error at the end of the re-encoding process. I saw it could have something to do with the mpeg material, but I wonder why.

I can't burn any DVD with the combination Eyetv (most recent 2.3.3 (2497)) + Toast8 and that is a real pity.

I will post more on this when I have sorted out what the problem could be.

 

Meanwhile I do would like to know why the reencoded material that ends up in the Roxio Converted Items folder is always larger than 4.7 GB for a 2 hour movie that I want to fit with another 2 hour movie onto one single-layer DVD?

 

For example: a 1.9 GB MPEG2 TS of 1:57 min. that I would like to burn with a similar movie onto a DVD ends up in the Converted folder as a 5GB m2v file (the audio track is being separated in the process)

 

Why does Toast increase this file to the extreme? Why would it end in the 18678 error?

 

Thanks for any more info.

[klend]

The video track shows a bit rate of 15 Mbps. Even if the average is 3.28 Mbps, the max being that high is not valid for DVD.

 

Yes, that is correct. But even if I 'fix' that in DVDPatcher (a windows tool that helps me in burning odd-sized MPEG2 streams to DVD) Toast re-encodes. I think the reason for it is that the GOP's are too long.

 

DVB-T transport streams here have a very long GOP size to reduce the bandwidth.

 

Thanks for all your help. I will carefully find a strategy to burn my discs.

[klend]

Something is very wrong here. The items you posted show conflicting information, including their length in time.

 

 

That is because I used streaminfo on a shorter clip that was being re-encoded.

 

The 18678 error typically happens with damaged MPEG files such as when there are dropped frames. This suggests problems with the EyeTV captures. Also, when Toast re-encodes video using the default settings it should require about 4 GB for 2 hours of video. If it is taking more space than that then the bit rate sliders must have been increased in the Custom Encoder window.

 

I think that was the issue initially, yes. My apologies. Next time I will pay more attention to all my settings before I post.

 

Which EyeTV do you have? How does Toast describe the video and audio when you add the EyeTV clips using the Toast Media Browser?

 

I have the most recent version, 2.3.3 built 2497.

Toast describes them correctly, either 704x576 or 528x576 depending on the actual content. Of course I understand that in the latter Toast re-encodes the content. The bitrate that Toast shows is the header bitrate that is inserted by the provider, typically 15 Mbps, and not the bitrate of the video track, which is usually 3 Mbps or so.

 

If I 'patch' the bitrate on assets that have a resolution of 704x576 to a normal 3.5 mbp/s Toast still re-encodes and I think that is because the GOP size is too long. I have a Windows tool (TMPeg DVD Author) that issues a warning that can be ignored and creates a valid DVD for me that can be played back on all my players.

 

I will carefully find a strategy that enables Toast to use my Eyetv recordings, even if it involves reencoding. I just don't want to end up with an error at the end. The faster way of authoring now still includes the Windows tool unfortunately, because it handles the streams I feed it and creates a DVD I can play.

 

Thanks for your help, I will get back to this in a new posting if I still encounter weird issues with my recordings.

 

Hendrik

[tsantee]

Thanks for the info. I don't know if I entirely agree to it right now (for one, the average bitrate is a mere 3mb/s or so). My main concern has switched a bit now: Whatever I try, I always get a 18678 error at the end of the re-encoding process. I saw it could have something to do with the mpeg material, but I wonder why.

I can't burn any DVD with the combination Eyetv (most recent 2.3.3 (2497)) + Toast8 and that is a real pity.

I will post more on this when I have sorted out what the problem could be.

 

Meanwhile I do would like to know why the reencoded material that ends up in the Roxio Converted Items folder is always larger than 4.7 GB for a 2 hour movie that I want to fit with another 2 hour movie onto one single-layer DVD?

 

For example: a 1.9 GB MPEG2 TS of 1:57 min. that I would like to burn with a similar movie onto a DVD ends up in the Converted folder as a 5GB m2v file (the audio track is being separated in the process)

 

Why does Toast increase this file to the extreme? Why would it end in the 18678 error?

 

Thanks for any more info.

Something is very wrong here. The items you posted show conflicting information, including their length in time. The 18678 error typically happens with damaged MPEG files such as when there are dropped frames. This suggests problems with the EyeTV captures. Also, when Toast re-encodes video using the default settings it should require about 4 GB for 2 hours of video. If it is taking more space than that then the bit rate sliders must have been increased in the Custom Encoder window.

 

Which EyeTV do you have? How does Toast describe the video and audio when you add the EyeTV clips using the Toast Media Browser?

[freshburn]

Original EyeTV info: All info obtained through MPEG Streamclip by the way

Stream: 000000000b99edf4.mpg

Path: ~/Documents/EyeTV Archive/Shouf Shouf de serie - Kat van huis.eyetv/000000000b99edf4.mpg

Type: MPEG transport stream

 

Duration: 0:25:00

Data Size: 587.56 MB

Bit Rate: 3.28 Mbps

 

Video Tracks:

7031 MPEG-2, 704 × 576, 4:3, 25 fps, 15.00 Mbps, upper field first

 

Audio Tracks:

7032 MP2 stereo (joint), 48 kHz, 160 kbps

 

Stream Files:

000000000b99edf4.mpg (587.56 MB)

 

The video track shows a bit rate of 15 Mbps. Even if the average is 3.28 Mbps, the max being that high is not valid for DVD.

[freshburn]

The files is not DVD compliant. It is 15 Mbps which is way over the limit for a DVD. DVD have a limit slightly over 10Mbps.

 

Toast 7 should also re-encode the file. I think the reason you are not seeing this is because you have a file in the Roxio Converted Items folder. Toast 7 knows the file had been encoded already and re-used that file. If you empty the folder, Toast 7 would also re-encode.

 

I could be wrong though.