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Help troubleshoot the jumpy video problem

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Several Toast 8 and 7 users report that video DVDs they burn from MPEG 2 videos are not playing properly. My understanding is this started after the OS 10.4.9 update. What would help in troubleshooting this is knowing details about the source video and about the kind of Mac.

 

So everyone who has this issue, please post here:

 

What created the MPEG video in the first place? If it is an EyeTV which model?

 

What are the MPEGs video and its audio specs including resolution, fps, NTSC/PAL, and audio format?

 

What Mac do you have?

 

What make/model of drive was used to burn the disc?

 

What brand of media are you using?

 

What brand(s) of players are showing this problem?

 

Thanks for you help. Although I don't have a lot of time to do too much experimenting I'm confident Roxio will also be reading your posts and do their own testing.

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What created the MPEG video in the first place? If it is an EyeTV which model?

 

Camcorder (unknown)

 

What are the MPEGs video and its audio specs including resolution, fps, NTSC/PAL, and audio format?

 

352x480 29.97 fps. Audio Dolby Digital 2/0 48000 Hz.

 

What Mac do you have?

 

PowerPC G5 Dual 2.3 Ghz 4 GB RAM.

 

What make/model of drive was used to burn the disc?

 

Note, this does not seem to be a problem with burning, but with importing the MPEG (see this Thread) Anyway, it is SONY DVD RW DW-Q28A.

 

What brand of media are you using?

 

generic

 

What brand(s) of players are showing this problem?

 

Tried many. Even occurs when chapters are exported to QT before writing to disc.

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I would like some sample files that exibit this problem. All of the files that we have seem to work properly. If you have any test files that you dont mind uploading to us somehow, I would like to see some of those files. If you send me a Private message with "Toast Encoder" as the topic, I will reply and we can arrange for the file transfer.

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I tried some of the videos that folks had sent me and they played back fine in the DVD players and computers that we have access to. We were only able to test some AVI files that were sent to us though and would like to do some additional testing with MPEG files. Let me know if you have any.

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What created the MPEG video in the first place? If it is an EyeTV which model?

 

What are the MPEGs video and its audio specs including resolution, fps, NTSC/PAL, and audio format?

 

What Mac do you have?

 

What make/model of drive was used to burn the disc?

 

What brand of media are you using?

 

What brand(s) of players are showing this problem?

Created by EyeTV via Miglia MiniTV (digital recordings only using source encoding - no re-encoding by the Miglia device).

 

Multiple specs, but all the jumping ones are anamorphic but still meet the DVD specs. PAL, with non-re-encoded audio.

 

Encoded on a 1.4GHz G4 Sawtooth (I think) with L2 and L3 caches, using a Pioneer internal DVD burner model 111 from video on a LaCie external firewire drive.

 

Media are various, including Ritek and Datawrite Titanium.

 

Brands showing the problem on playback are Yamada and Samsung.

 

I can make copies of the DVDs if anyone likes, but I am based in the UK so shipping may not be really fast.

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Multiple specs, but all the jumping ones are anamorphic but still meet the DVD specs. PAL, with non-re-encoded audio.

 

My problem-video files have been anamorphic as well. And most have been PAL.

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John,

 

As an experiment, can you please try playing the files you received in VLC software, version 0.8.6 (or greater). VLC duplicated the same jerky video playback that I experienced in my set top DVD players, while Apple's DVD Player program played them back normally.

 

Playback with VLC might give you some insight to the problem we are experiencing. Please note that my problems were with widescreen 16:9 NTSC video. 4:3 NTSC video plays back fine on my dvd players and in VLC. Mixed content dvds with both 16:9 and 4:3 content played back jerky in 16:9 yet played back normal in 4:3 with VLC.

 

Jerky Video Present with the following specs:

MPEG-2 from MTR 2.6.6

Resolution: 720 x 480, NTSC,

Aspect Ratio: 16:9, 2.66:1 (anything bigger than 4:3 causes jerky video)

FPS: 29.97

Audio: Dolby Digital, 3/2/LFE, 48000 Hz (English)

Computer: Mac Mini Intel Core Duo 1.66Ghz, 1G RAM, OS X 10.4.9

Burned on: Internal Superdrive

Media: Verbatim DVD+R DL

Problem DVD Players: VLC (Software), Magnavox, Apex

 

Thanks!

Patrick

Edited by Squid3660

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I tried VLC version 0.8.4 on the same machine that I used to record the DVDs and on my Powerbook. They play back with no stutter.

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I tried VLC version 0.8.4 on the same machine that I used to record the DVDs and on my Powerbook. They play back with no stutter.

 

Interesting. Hmmm. Since you wrote that, I burned a disc image of a .vob file that I made with MTR 2.6.6, using the DVD-Video option in Toast 8.0.1, automatic encoding, best quality. The .vob was a 16:9 dolby audio, NTSC. After Toast burned the disc image, I played it with VLC 0.8.6 and it had the jerly stuttering video. I quit VLC and played it with Apple DVD Player and it played normally. The source vob plays back normally in VLC and DVD Player.

 

NicD, is it possible for you to use Toast 8 to burn a disc image of an anamorphic VOB file and play it back with VLC, just to rule out that I am not completely crazy?

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I am experiencing this jumpy video problem with Toast 8.01 and hopefully can provide some additional information to the troubleshooting process. I've burned quite a number of DVD's in order to try different settings and hopefully rule out certain potential sources of error.

 

First, the requested background information:

* Source MPEG files are recordings from an eyeTV 200. They are 4:3 SD video.

* MPEG specs: (Video) MPEG-2, 720x480, 29.97fps -- (Audio) MPEG-1, Stereo, 48000Hz

The eyeTV is set to capture in "Standard (DVD 120min) mode. That is Video at 1.8 GB per hour 4.0 Mbps VBR (6.0 Mbps max), IBP frames; Audio at 48.0 kHz, 224 kbps.

* MPEG video and audio specs... see previous answer.

* Mac model: PowerMac G5 1.8Ghz 1GB RAM running Mac OS X 10.4.9

* DVD Drive make/model: Sony DVD RW DW-U10A; Rev. A43h (internal installed by Apple)

* DVD Media: Verbatim DVD-R

* DVD Players: <1> Magnavox MSD125 (no problems); <2> Sony SLV-D500P (consistent problem)

 

Here is what I've discovered:

1) The raw MPEG files play fine on the computer before burning to DVD.

2) The burned DVD plays with a video jerk every 1 second on the Sony DVD player, however on the cheap Magnavox DVD player, the same DVD's play just fine. Clearly some players are more sensitive to the TOAST encoding problem that others.

3) The burned DVD plays without jerkiness on the Apple DVD player software in the computer. Again, clearly this problem is only observable on certain set-top DVD players.

4) Changing Toast's settings to force a re-encode of the footage before burning does not resolve the jerkiness problem. The video quality is degraded, but the jerky video is nearly identical... possibly a little worse.

5) The exact same footage when muxed by FFMpegX and then burned to DVD using Toast (Video_TS option) plays without jerky video on the same Sony DVD player that has the problem when the footage is muxed by Toast.

 

Here are the steps I took to burn the same footage WITHOUT jerky video.

1) In eyeTV, export the file using File > Export and the "Elementary Streams" option.

2) In FFMpegX, mux the video using Tools > Mux and selecting the separate video and audio files that were created in step 1.

3) In FFMpegX, prepare the file for DVD burn using Tools > Author and selecting the muxed .mpg file that was created in step 2.

4) In Toast, set-up the DVD burn using Video > Video_TS Folder and selecting the folder that was created in step 3. (The folder includes Video_TS and Audio_TS files.)

5) In Toast, burn the DVD using the big red button.

 

I have two DVD's (both Verbatim DVD-R from the same spindle) that contain the identical TV episode. The one that was muxed and burned by TOAST has the jerky video problem. The one that was muxed by FFMpegX and then burned by TOAST plays without any jerky video on the same Set-top DVD player (Sony brand).

 

I WOULD BE HAPPY to mail these DVD's to Roxio if it might help solve the mystery of this software bug.

 

Based on my testing, it seems very plausible that the problem is occuring during the mux process that is used by TOAST. Neither the straight Toast method nor the FFMpegX + Toast method causes the footage to be re-encoded, therefore I don't believe that eyeTV is producing a bad MPEG file. Rather, I think that Roxio needs to look at how the MPEG file is being processed (muxed) prior to being burned.

 

Again, I would be VERY HAPPY to send these two DVD's to Roxio tech support/development if it would allow them to resolve this extremely frustrating problem with their software.

Edited by truejoy-fad

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NicD, is it possible for you to use Toast 8 to burn a disc image of an anamorphic VOB file and play it back with VLC, just to rule out that I am not completely crazy?

I am not sure where I get a VOB file from that would make sense to burn as a test. I am normally burning an MPEG file that is taken from digital terrestrial television and is therefore the direct feed from the TV company in DVD format. Toast does no re-encoding (it never does for these), it just re-muxes and then burns. The only VOB files I really have are ones I have got through burning a DVD in Toast. If I open these direct from the DVD that stutters in my DVD player, it doesn't stutter at all in VLC. If I re-burn these VOB files, I am not sure what it will show.

 

I checked some of the source and burned file details. They are PAL MPEG-2, 544x576, 16:9, 25fps interlaced (upper field first). The audio is MP2 stereo, 48kHz, 192 kbps.

 

It seems the important post is from truejoy-fad. My discs are not re-encoded but still generate stutter. So what is it happening when Toast re-muxes them? Apart from the burn process, there is nothing else going on in Toast.

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I would be VERY HAPPY to send these two DVD's to Roxio tech support/development if it would allow them to resolve this extremely frustrating problem with their software.

 

A quick update. A tech support person from Roxio has been in contact with me. Yesterday I mailed the two DVD's to them for investigation. With any luck this will help Roxio track down the problem.

 

I just wanted to let everyone know that Roxio has been quick to show interest and seems to be working hard to track down the cause of the "Jerky Video" problem. So far they have been wonderful to work with.

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What created the MPEG video in the first place? If it is an EyeTV which model?

 

What are the MPEGs video and its audio specs including resolution, fps, NTSC/PAL, and audio format?

 

What Mac do you have?

 

What make/model of drive was used to burn the disc?

 

What brand of media are you using?

 

What brand(s) of players are showing this problem?

 

I have the stuttering issue when burning from Toast 8.0.1.

 

My source is an eyeTV200 recording from cable TV, 1 hr program

Recorded by a Mac Mini 1.6 DP with 2 Gb RAM, running 10.4.9 to an external firewire hard drive (7200 rpm) with in excess of 50 Gb free space (boot drive has 22 Gb free space).

 

A Lacie D2 external firewire device creates all CDs and DVDs for this system

 

We use Sony DVD-R media exclusively.

 

The problem of playback stuttering occurs in a Toshiba combo set top device (DVD/VHS deck circa 2006) and a Sony DVD setup box (circa 1999).

 

Note that Toast creates a stuttering issue only when eyeTV content is burned to v8.0.1 directly. If the same content is exported to the hard drive as an mpg, and that file is used to create a DVD in Toast v6, there is no stuttering effect. (I realize I introduce more than one variable between these two methods).

 

I did vary the write speed without a difference in effect (best speed vs 1x DVD in Toast 8)

 

Note that the same installation of Toast 8 can burn DVDs from a VIDEO_TS format with no issues on playback.

 

I'd be happy to mail the DVDs to John, if he's interested.

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Hi,

 

Here's my experience:

 

What created the MPEG video in the first place? If it is an EyeTV which model?

Cinergy Terratec for DTT, using EyeTV2 software.

 

What are the MPEGs video and its audio specs including resolution, fps, NTSC/PAL, and audio format?

Video: MPEG-2, 720 x 576, 25fps (PAL), Audio: MPEG-1, Stereo, 48000 Hz

 

What Mac do you have?

iMac G5 (ambient sensor)

 

What make/model of drive was used to burn the disc?

Built-in Matshita DVD-R UJ-845

 

What brand of media are you using?

Memorex, Sony

 

What brand(s) of players are showing this problem?

Philips

 

For me, the problem had nothing to do with OSX version 10.4.9. The problem started with Toast 7.1. I still have 7.0.2 which I use to burn DVDs. I only use 8.0.1 for Audio CDs. 7.0.2 has the jaggy yellow selection boxes, but it's better than having jerky video.

 

Because the DTT streams are already MPEG-2, Toast does no re-encoding. It Multiplexes the programme, and then burns the disc. It's a MUCH faster process than having to re-encode, so I don't want to do a workaround involving re-encoding when it's so quick with 7.0.2. So there must have been a change to the way 7.1 multiplexed the programme or burned the disc. All my discs (DVD + or - R, or RW) of all manufacturers work fine on my DVD player when using 7.0.2, but all are jerky using 7.1 or 8. DVD's burned using 7.1 and 8 work fine on my iMac.

 

Hope this helps find the problem.

 

David

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NicD, is it possible for you to use Toast 8 to burn a disc image of an anamorphic VOB file and play it back with VLC, just to rule out that I am not completely crazy?

I tried a Video_ts folder from inside a disc image that I mounted via Discimagemounter.app rather than via Toast. Running VLC 0.8.4 it plays back with no stutter, though actually, so does the DVD on the same computer via VLC 0.8.4. It is only in my DVD players that I get the stutter and the only way to burn a DVD to test those is via Toast, otherwise it doesn't recognise it as a video DVD.

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I tried a Video_ts folder from inside a disc image that I mounted via Discimagemounter.app rather than via Toast. Running VLC 0.8.4 it plays back with no stutter, though actually, so does the DVD on the same computer via VLC 0.8.4. It is only in my DVD players that I get the stutter and the only way to burn a DVD to test those is via Toast, otherwise it doesn't recognise it as a video DVD.

 

NicD,

 

Thanks for trying to reproduce the symptoms I am having. I really appreciate your effort. This is such a frustrating problem. But once this problem is resloved, we can all know that we all contributed to the fix action in some way. I cant wait to hear what Roxio has to say about the files that were sent to them by TrueJoy.

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Like ''truejoy-fad'' said about the mpeg encoding.

 

My test result.

 

Using the same file to encode on iDVD and Toast.

 

Toast have the jerk problem.

 

iDVD work well.

 

Looking to the mpeg encoder is i think the key.

 

Or does the Firewire connection does't stream data the same way using these two applications.

 

it's with ideas and test that we'll find the problem!

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I have also now tried putting Toast on another Mac with an internal DVD burner with Intel (a portable - I have been running it on my old G4 desktop up until now). It produces identical results. I have written a personal message to Toast when they asked for example files sent much earlier this week, but so far I have had no response.

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Anyone at Roxio have updates on this problem? It seems like the problem files have been submitted for a long time now and there's no word. This bug is making the program unusable for now so it's hard to be infinitely patient here.

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It looks like it was, since Popcorn 3 no longer exhibits this problem when encoding identical source files.

 

Don't bother upgrading without checking the detail, since Popcorn 3 is not fully stable (in a similar way to Toast 8) and since there is no way to save any settings when creating a disc, if it falls over during the creation of a disc image, you lose all your settings for that DVD.

 

They haven't yet incorporated the change into any further version of Toast 8, though, and given the focus on Popcorn, the chances are you may have to wait until Toast 9...

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