NTLDR is missing after installing EMC 10

[mindy01]

Bought EMC 10 when I got the upgrade email, through the download service. Installed it no problem and began to poke around a bit. No issues. Then came back yesterday and noticed that nothing was working from the "web" style front-page. When I tried to click on the caputure video, nothing happend. Other links did not work as well and some threw up error messages. Decided to reinstall again. After the rebott, my Windows XP wouldn't come up, left with a message of "NTLDR is missing, press any key to restart" at a black screen. Could not get around this, had to google search, get a file, reboot from floppy, etc. Whole workaround. Did a system restore back before EMC 10 and everything was fine. Tried install again. Rebot machine and NTLDR gone again. Finally got back to XP and got rid of EMC 10, went back and reinstalled EMC 9. I am asking for refund of EMC 10.

[gi7omy]

I'm not being defensive about anything - simply stating a fact that I've seen that happen in the past few months on a couple of my customers' computers that never HAD any Roxio software installed, ergo, if it happens without any Roxio s/w being present, it can't be down to that

 

To blame one app for causing a fault that has occurred on other machines that don't have it installed is akin to blaming the power company who supply the EMF to work the computer.

 

I'm not disputing that it's happening - and to be honest, I'd dearly love to know just why and how - but it is happening and so far no-one has been able to pin down a common source

[MarkR]

Interesting, yes.

 

I did find it where Jean recommended under common files. When I clicked on it, nothing happened. I found it in Add/Delete and did the repair. Still nothing happened when I clicked on it and it does not show up in Control Panel.

 

I think the Roxio Update Manager is just a component of EMC and not a separate entity.

[EJN]

Update on reinstall of EMC 10: 24+ hours have passed and I have been working with various components of EMC 10, tweaking some old MyDVD projects, trimming some videos, etc., starting/restarting, and (fingers still crossed) no problems. I agree that it would be nice when EMC10 patches/updates are released, there was a method of notifying those of us who have registered so we could apply the update. Had Highlander not pointed me in the right direction, I would not have known about the 10/26 patch.

 

Again, kudos and thanks to all on this forum who are so helpful, and might I say, supportive when we run into the problems we've faced.

 

Thanks,

 

Ed

[grandpabruce]

The % full of the MFT has nothing to do with the capacity of the H/D. I am actually surprised that is is only 90% full. That means that a bunch of files were deleted.

 

The MFT grows as needed. It is common to see it a 99% full. Without getting into anything deep, the MFT may be bigger than reported when it is created. When created, it has room to grow. There is space allocated for it even though it may not consume the entire space.

 

Ever see the "unmovable files" in your defrag utility... Yep.. Aside from the swap file, that is the MFT. Don't get on me as there are also some system files that can not be moved.

 

Some refer to it as "slack". There are several partition / format utilities that let you assign the size of the slack. Partition Magic for instance, lets you assign the amount of slack. Actually... Doing a bit of research inspired by the topic of this thread, I really didn't know what that meant. I own Partition Magic. I saw the variable, never really knew what it was. I always accepted the default. Funny thing... those help files included with the software

 

Once the MFT exceeds the growth limit (sort of speaking), it can continue to grow but it is no longer contiguous. The added MFT moves to another part of the disk, hence the fragmentation.

 

When I first read it, I thought the hard drive was 90% full, in which case if it could even be defragged, which is doubtful when a drive gets down to about 15% left, it wouldn't do a very good job.

 

I am not sure whether or not Walt was thinking the same thing or he ws thinking it was because of the small hard drive. I was thinking the same thing, almost.

[Tom2]

I had previously posted that I only had problems with my PC and not my laptop.

 

As far as I can tell, none of the files were deleted from the laptop. I checked the attributes of some of the files. While some were RHA, others had no extensions (not sure if that is the proper term) and still did not get deleted. The problem appears to be specific to only certain environments.

[REDWAGON]

Thanks for listening to the problems and taking a look into it.

 

I have read of an additional content file. When I did the download, there was only one file downloaded and I am not prompted to add any additional files after the install. Is there something else that should have downloaded with the file?

 

Is it possible that the install from CD is different from the downloaded file? Are the missing ntldr, etc only occuring with the downloaded file?

 

Forgot to ask if there is an easy way to copy the information of my computer setup to the signature block like many have or is it all typed in?

 

Go to the top of the forum screen and click on "My Controls". On the left hand side of that screen you will se several options where you can add text for your computer setup etc.

 

Frank...

[barryware]

It's never a good idea to remove system attributes from boot files - all sorts of strange things can happen (and usually not nice ones)

I hear you... It was just an experiment. After the boot (which worked), I changed the attributes back.

[Tom2]

Lots of ways to work around this problem that has caused headaches for many. Not to be negative, but there are other problems also that require workarounds.

 

The big question is "What caused the problems and when will a fix be out?".

The threads are getting longer and the answers do not seem to be forthcoming.

[gi7omy]

Actually, that's what he does say

 

"The laptop drive is 90% used."

 

NOT the MFT but the drive

[barryware]

MyBad

[SSandhaus]

I had exactly the same situation when "upgrading" from 9 to 10. Install worked initially, then various components wouldn't load so, as I've learned to do by using EMC 9, I uninstalled and reinstalled. Now my system won't boot and gives the Can't find NTLDR error when it tries. I went to the web and tried the fixes that are there, and they won't work on my system. Apparently EMC 10 renamed by boot drive at it can't be found. If I try to roload the operating system, it says it can't find a boot partition and asks if I want to create one. I assume I shouldn't if I don't want to lose all my precious files. When I do the Windows XP Recovery routine, it says my root drive is drive J: (used to be C:) and my second hard disc (used to be D:) is C:. All the directories are visible in the MSDOS mode of Recovery, but none of the files are accessible. They all say access denied when I try to open their directories (Rocovery asks for Administrator password, which I entered).

 

Only advice the IS people can give me is to buy a new system and install the hard drives on the new system so I can save all my data files. Roxio should pay for my new system as well as refund my upgrade cost of for EMC 10. I expect to see a lot more of this issue in the near future from other users.

 

Sandy

[gi7omy]

Call it whatever you like, but I recently had to repair several computers, all with EXACTLY that fault and only ONE of them had any Roxio/Sonic s/w on it

 

They only thing in common was that they all had Windows XP tho - and the latest patches so make your own mind up

[jd91651]

We're all aware that it happens - and so is Microsoft

MS issued a KB article on the 'missing NTLDR' problem so it would appear that it's not that uncommon an occurence and not limited to EMC 10

Roxio are looking into it - all I can say is that it did not appear in the beta or subsequently on any of my machines

WIth all due respect. The KB article you refer to regarding the MFT issue has already been ruled out in previous posts. Please stop bringing it up again.

See my previous post #104:

http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?...7932&st=103

 

In summary of that post

The symtoms everyone is complaining about are that the files are COMPLETELY MISSING after installing EMC10 and rebooting.

IF the MFT was the problem as sited in that kb article the files would NOT BE MISSING

You would still be able to see them if you booted to dos or from a windows cd and changed their hidden, system, read-only attributes to make them visible.

What happens when the MFT problem sited in that article bites you is that the ntldr file has been moved by the OS to a section of the MFT that is beyond the 1st section (IE into the second or beyond mft fragments)

They are STILL there and can still be seen with a dir command from a running OS. Only the boot loader cannot "see" them because (prior to SP2) the boot loader was only able to look for the ntldr file in the 1st mft segment and not to one of it's fragments.

Just to clarify, I don't know if emc 10 is the problem or MS or the man-in-the-moon but the MFT is not the problem. It was a nice eduguess but like my original eduguess way back in the thread...

it is the wrong answer.

[JC]

I too have the same problem w/ the NLTDR message when you try to do a repair installation and reboot to correct a runtime 6025 error.

 

Additional details located in these posts

 

http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?showtopic=28419

 

or

 

http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?showtopic=27916

[EJN]

Reinstalled EMC 10 with installation taking about 20 minutes. After install, I checked Software Update (per John at Roxio's 10/26/07, 10:53 a.m. post), and no updates available. Held my breath, crossed my fingers, and restarted, and started OK. Then ran Software Updates and Update for EMC 10 found and installed. Have started and restarted several times without missing NTLDR problem. Within EMC 10, Compile DVD and Movies section freezes (no responded), but able to end task and continue in EMC without problems. WOrkaround for editing start / end times exists within MyDVD Express, but wonder while Compile not responded.

 

I continue to hold my breath since my problems after the initial install did not started until a day or so after the initial install (that is EMC 10 would not start). I have several backups available in case of any problems.

 

Thanks to all for their input and suggestions.

 

Ed

[gebi1]

I think, the main point seem to be the system protection.

 

As Jacob Marley posted, the only survived file on his system was protected by the OS.

 

On my system all the three named files and some additional (including 'pagefile.sys') are system protected.

 

If these files are normaly protected by the OS, Roxio can't delete them. Otherwise this must happen to all users.

 

The unprotection of the named files must be done by another program or a virus or any other reason.

[bm1000]

BM.... Do you have something to say or are you just "jumping in"..?

 

Yea... If Roxio would have said "we do not rename drive letters", that would have solved everything.

 

So far, this has been a very constructive thread. It looks like Roxio may be paying attention. Lets try not to muck it up.

 

Have a good weekend.

A little of both, I suppose.

This post about computers being rendered unbootable has been open for 24 days, and the only status Roxio has given is that they are looking into it.

 

Perhaps my implication was too subtle: Since Roxio has not said that they do not rename drive letters, that leads me to believe that they do (or worse, they do not know if they do or not).

 

One thing that I will say, the frequent posters on this site are remarkable: You are all extremely kind to Roxio. The last time I installed software on a computer that rendered it unbootable, it came on a 5 1/4" floppy disk.

[EJN]

Reread the posts on this forum this morning, and glad to see that Roxio staff members are monitoring these posts and are working on a solution. I'm keeping my Support Case open in hopes that word will come down that a fix has been found.

 

Now that my new Dell XPS 720 is running well, I'm keeping EMC 10 in the box until I hear some good news about a fix so I can try again. In the meantime, I'll keep using my Nero 9 and MyDVD 6 (I think) that's installed on my old computer (even thought I bought this kick a** machine to spend up my video editing work :-)).

 

Ed

[bimicher]

Reinstalled EMC 10 with installation taking about 20 minutes. After install, I checked Software Update (per John at Roxio's 10/26/07, 10:53 a.m. post), and no updates available. Held my breath, crossed my fingers, and restarted, and started OK. Then ran Software Updates and Update for EMC 10 found and installed. Have started and restarted several times without missing NTLDR problem. Within EMC 10, Compile DVD and Movies section freezes (no responded), but able to end task and continue in EMC without problems. WOrkaround for editing start / end times exists within MyDVD Express, but wonder while Compile not responded.

 

I continue to hold my breath since my problems after the initial install did not started until a day or so after the initial install (that is EMC 10 would not start). I have several backups available in case of any problems.

 

Thanks to all for their input and suggestions.

 

Ed

 

Glad you got your system up and running, Ed!

 

To help solve your usage problem, you should start a new thread (perhaps in How to Use) and explain exactly what you are trying to do, what you have tried and what happens.

VideoWave should be used for creating/editing your video and myDVD is the component to use for menu creation and burning. Most of the wizards (such as myDVD Express) are limited in their functions.

Its also a good idea to list your system specs( especially your video card) similar to what I have in my signature

[Tom2]

I used Diskeeper for defrag and optimizing my MFT and page files.

 

Reloaded EMC10 with the same results -- all files not in folders in C:\ root are missing. When I get time, I will remove some of the files.

 

I did an install on my laptop and none of the files were removed. The laptop drive is 90% used.

[atmywitzend]

I didn't say it was a bad boot.ini. I just noticed the OS is on part(1). I have a dual boot machine and the default OS is on part(0) and the second OS is on part(1).

 

My Dual Boot:

 

[boot loader]

timeout=5

default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(0)\WINDOWS

[operating systems]

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(0)\WINDOWS="(1) Microsoft Windows Media Center Edition 2005" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="(2) Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

 

I have a laptop that still has the utility partition and the OS is installed on part(1), not (0).

 

Just something to check that's all.

 

Actually.... I think someone else on a different thread may have it figured out. They suspect that after the install completes and removes and temporary install files, it is also taking files in the root directory that are not in folders with it. That user theorized that the temp install files are being written to the root directory of the drive instead of the system temp directory.

 

Might have something to do with the files attributes.

 

One user has a problem.. Thats one thing. Two.... Maybe. But 3,4,+ all reporting the boot files are missing after install and a couple have reported that it is repeatable.... I think that deserves some real attention from the engineers at Roxio.. Can't have software installs destroying users rigs.

 

Red... Let me ask you a question. You are a Guru and I understand that one of the perks / responsibilities of Guru is beta testing new software...

 

How large is Roxio's beta pool? How long is the beta test before the commercial release?

 

 

 

Ok, so I got cocky in thinking my computer was fixed- as long as the cd I made is in the rom-the computer boots correctly-but when I remove the cd (made to fix the problem) from the rom -the error message returns......so 'light goes on' hello-knock, knock- I realize I need to install this information someplace....I have no clue how this is done-but I am researching today to discover what the next step will be-I'm also returning this software to the retail store where I purchased it..

[james_hardin]

A little of both, I suppose.

This post about computers being rendered unbootable has been open for 24 days, and the only status Roxio has given is that they are looking into it.

 

Perhaps my implication was too subtle: Since Roxio has not said that they do not rename drive letters, that leads me to believe that they do (or worse, they do not know if they do or not).

 

One thing that I will say, the frequent posters on this site are remarkable: You are all extremely kind to Roxio. The last time I installed software on a computer that rendered it unbootable, it came on a 5 1/4" floppy disk.

XP didn't come on 5 1/4" floppies…

 

I have lost 2 HD's to MS's NTLDR error. One had V6 on it the other V8. Both had Roxio installed for nearly a year.

 

Daithi posted the MSKB article which says this is a problem common to XP/W2K but the Let's blame everything on Roxio club will not be swayed by any facts…

 

And it has only been 4 days! John at Roxio only posted that they will look at it on 10/10/07…

[The Highlander]

I don't know if Roxio has changed the download or not. I do know that when I downloaded, it was 2 separate files (Program and Content). I saw a veryr recent entry here somewhere that indicated their download had these 2 combined. So they may have changed something, but Roxio seems to be reluctant to give out much information in a general way. They had everyone guessing about the only update to EMC-10 for some time before any information came out regarding it's purpose (the NTLDR problem fix).

 

I two was a tester on EMC10 and i have to say that the issue NEVER showed on my many test system that I and (i can say Many others) all used, as to the patch , how are you ment to know what it is for or what it fix's until they list it , as the patch was sent as an online update first and many or should i say most got it that way.

 

all i can say is "i to dont know why the issue started WELL after the beta and CA testing times, and i can say we tested it with everything, even Beta releases of the Vista SP1 and the XP SP3, it NEVER showed in all those tests, but there must have been some thing in relation to MS or a form of patch sent via the MS updates, as not all of us have got the NTLDR issue (that's probily becouse we all turn off auto updates)

 

any how , blame this or blame that , i dont know why it started , im just glad there is a fix for it.

[Tom2]

John,

 

Saw your new posting and tried to follow. I do not see "Software Update" in my control panel.

[grampa D]

"Not to detract from the other conversations, but I had this exact same thing happen. NTDLR missing after Roxio install. I have full virus scanners, firewall, the whole bit. Everything worked fine up until Roxio 10 install."

 

 

 

 

Now on my laptop, everytime I reboot I get the ntdlr missing. I even went back to a restore point before I installed EMC10 and keep getting it. I have to pull the HD and slave it to get things back up and running again.