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mindy01

NTLDR is missing after installing EMC 10

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Bought EMC 10 when I got the upgrade email, through the download service. Installed it no problem and began to poke around a bit. No issues. Then came back yesterday and noticed that nothing was working from the "web" style front-page. When I tried to click on the caputure video, nothing happend. Other links did not work as well and some threw up error messages. Decided to reinstall again. After the rebott, my Windows XP wouldn't come up, left with a message of "NTLDR is missing, press any key to restart" at a black screen. Could not get around this, had to google search, get a file, reboot from floppy, etc. Whole workaround. Did a system restore back before EMC 10 and everything was fine. Tried install again. Rebot machine and NTLDR gone again. Finally got back to XP and got rid of EMC 10, went back and reinstalled EMC 9. I am asking for refund of EMC 10.

Edited by Tom at Roxio

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I have posted that this is a repeatable event whenever I install EMC10 on my computer. Now gi7omy please don't get upset and have a stroke or anything like that. I did not say or imply that EMC10 was the culprit. I will leave that up to the reader to surmise. I am saying that in a certain environment (the elements of which we are attempting to ascertain), after installing EMC10, the files on my computer not located in individual folders on the C:\ root directory are missing. I do not know why they are missing or what caused them to go missing, only that there is a strange coincidence that 5 times now, the event is reproducible.

 

Now, for the facts.

I have 3 hard drives C, D, E, none of which have been renamed. No SCSI.

 

ASUS motherboard

P4 2.8

2GB RAM

Windows XP Home

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I've 7 drives (4 ATAs in RAID) and partitioned up to Drive M (the RAID array). The primary master is partitioned in 4 (XP Pro, XP 64, Linux and Vista Ultimate in that order) and I had actually reset the drive letters manually to be C (XP32) D(XP64 but that relettered itself K after installing) and E (Vista which calls itself C on boot) - Linux isn't recognised as a partition by Windows so that doesn't have a drive letter. My pagefile, temp and My Documents folders are all on the primary slave drive, again re-lettered to be drive F and that problem of wiping out the NTLDR and boot.ini files didn't happen with me.

 

The lettering is all non-standard (Windows will make the first partition on the primary slave drive D and the first partition on secondary master E) My optical drive I relettered to 'Z'.

 

Again - none of my boot loaders were affected and my default boot order is GRUB (choice of Linux or Windows), Vista boot (choice of Vista or older Windows) and finally the XP boot.ini (choice of 32 or 64 bit XP).

 

If this was a common occurence, I'd expect at least one of those boot loaders to go belly up - but none did

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INow, for the facts.

I have 3 hard drives C, D, E, none of which have been renamed. No SCSI.

 

It's possible for the drive letters to be in a different (other-than-standard) order for other reasons

than just the user renaming them.

Never-the-less let's assume they weren't.

It's likely that there are other variables that may be involved besides just the ones I brought out

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Again - none of my boot loaders were affected and my default boot order is GRUB (choice of Linux or Windows), Vista boot (choice of Vista or older Windows) and finally the XP boot.ini (choice of 32 or 64 bit XP).

If this was a common occurence, I'd expect at least one of those boot loaders to go belly up - but none did

 

Did it occur to you that the fact you are using GRUB for a boot loader may have something to do with why you have not been affected? That is a completely non-standard windows boot setup.

 

----------------------------------------

I've read all 13 of your posts in this thread and I'm still trying to figure you out.

You seem REALLY invested in this NOT being roxio. Even more so than the Roxio guys that posted and who at least are willing to ask for more info before they dismiss it outright.

 

For instance you've posted 13 times in this thread so far. Two of them were neutral and 11 of them said basically the same thing... 'It's not EMC10 because I've never seen this problem myself.'

 

I think you've made your point and probably don't need to mention it anymore.

So let's just agree to disagree on this.

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Not to detract from the other conversations, but I had this exact same thing happen. NTDLR missing after Roxio install. I have full virus scanners, firewall, the whole bit. Everything worked fine up until Roxio 10 install.

 

I uninstalled 9.

Rebooted.

Installed 10

Rebooted....or tried to, anyway. NTDLR missing

 

Fortunately, in my case

- I backed up all my data before install

- I use Norton Ghost.

I went back to before the Roxio 10 install. Removed 9 again, installed 10 again, this time it worked.

 

Whatever it is, it does not occur every time. But throw my vote on the pile that it happens at least 50% of the time for me.

 

Of course after it installed, it only worked for a few days, but that's another issue I'm hoping to hear back on.

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"Not to detract from the other conversations, but I had this exact same thing happen. NTDLR missing after Roxio install. I have full virus scanners, firewall, the whole bit. Everything worked fine up until Roxio 10 install."

 

 

 

 

Now on my laptop, everytime I reboot I get the ntdlr missing. I even went back to a restore point before I installed EMC10 and keep getting it. I have to pull the HD and slave it to get things back up and running again.

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This thread has been open for 24 days now. It seems that the issue with NTLDRs suddenly going missing could have been quickly resolved if someone from Roxio had stated 'we do not rename drive letters'. I don't think that this is too much to ask.

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This thread has been open for 24 days now. It seems that the issue with NTLDRs suddenly going missing could have been quickly resolved if someone from Roxio had stated 'we do not rename drive letters'. I don't think that this is too much to ask.

BM.... Do you have something to say or are you just "jumping in"..?

 

Yea... If Roxio would have said "we do not rename drive letters", that would have solved everything.

 

So far, this has been a very constructive thread. It looks like Roxio may be paying attention. Lets try not to muck it up.

 

Have a good weekend.

Edited by barryware

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I had the exact same sequence of problems after upgrading from EMC 9 to 10. I've tried a clean install, and same thing recurs.

 

 

 

<Edited - just the facts, please>

Edited by Tom at Roxio

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Actually everybody is so convinced this just HAS to be Roxio (even tho I've seen it on other machines) that nobody seems to have bothered checking anywhere else.

 

A very interesting MS KB article here

 

"...This problem may occur if the MFT root folder is severely fragmented. If the MFT root folder contains many files, the MFT may become so fragmented that an additional allocation index is created. Because files are mapped alphabetically in the allocation indexes, the NTLDR file may be pushed to the second allocation index...."

 

Also this board is worth looking at too

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BM.... Do you have something to say or are you just "jumping in"..?

 

Yea... If Roxio would have said "we do not rename drive letters", that would have solved everything.

 

So far, this has been a very constructive thread. It looks like Roxio may be paying attention. Lets try not to muck it up.

 

Have a good weekend.

A little of both, I suppose.

This post about computers being rendered unbootable has been open for 24 days, and the only status Roxio has given is that they are looking into it.

 

Perhaps my implication was too subtle: Since Roxio has not said that they do not rename drive letters, that leads me to believe that they do (or worse, they do not know if they do or not).

 

One thing that I will say, the frequent posters on this site are remarkable: You are all extremely kind to Roxio. The last time I installed software on a computer that rendered it unbootable, it came on a 5 1/4" floppy disk.

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A little of both, I suppose.

This post about computers being rendered unbootable has been open for 24 days, and the only status Roxio has given is that they are looking into it.

 

Perhaps my implication was too subtle: Since Roxio has not said that they do not rename drive letters, that leads me to believe that they do (or worse, they do not know if they do or not).

 

One thing that I will say, the frequent posters on this site are remarkable: You are all extremely kind to Roxio. The last time I installed software on a computer that rendered it unbootable, it came on a 5 1/4" floppy disk.

XP didn't come on 5 1/4" floppies…

 

I have lost 2 HD's to MS's NTLDR error. One had V6 on it the other V8. Both had Roxio installed for nearly a year.

 

Daithi posted the MSKB article which says this is a problem common to XP/W2K but the Let's blame everything on Roxio club will not be swayed by any facts…

 

And it has only been 4 days! John at Roxio only posted that they will look at it on 10/10/07…

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One thing that I will say, the frequent posters on this site are remarkable: You are all extremely kind to Roxio. The last time I installed software on a computer that rendered it unbootable, it came on a 5 1/4" floppy disk.

I hear you... However... Let there be no mistake about it. Most of the "frequent posters" or you may want to call them "Guru's", pretty much hate me.

 

I keep my posts clean, try to contribute, and except for a couple of posts I can remember, I try not to interject opinion. I try to state facts (as I see them or my experience with the suite). That may be why I have not been "banned" from the site just yet. A few of my posts have been deleted though.

 

However... Tomorrow is another day and you never know what may happen.

 

I got on your case because your post was not at all constructive. Not quite a rant, but had nothing to offer to the subject.

 

This is / was a good thread. I am looking forward to seeing what will happen. Some say the Roxio is not to blame for necessary boot files coming up missing after an install.

 

Maybe... Maybe there are circumstances that exist on the users computer that the install "pushes things over the edge". Sorta link a rock on the edge of a cliff. Maybe it will go over the edge, maybe not.

 

Because users have reported that the problem is repeatable, I believe the suite contributes but may not be the sole cause. (That was BS.... Just trying to be nice)

 

So... We will see what happens. Like an alcoholic, first you have to admit you have a problem (that was an opinion).

Edited by barryware

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I hear you... However... Let there be no mistake about it. Most of the "frequent posters" or you may want to call them "Guru's", pretty much hate me.

 

I keep my posts clean, try to contribute, and except for a couple of posts I can remember, I try not to interject opinion. I try to state facts (as I see them or my experience with the suite). That may be why I have not been "banned" from the site just yet. A few of my posts have been deleted though.

 

However... Tomorrow is another day and you never know what may happen.

 

I got on your case because your post was not at all constructive. Not quite a rant, but had nothing to offer to the subject.

 

This is / was a good thread. I am looking forward to seeing what will happen. Some say the Roxio is not to blame for necessary boot files coming up missing after an install.

 

Maybe... Maybe there are circumstances that exist on the users computer that the install "pushes things over the edge". Sorta link a rock on the edge of a cliff. Maybe it will go over the edge, maybe not.

 

Because users have reported that the problem is repeatable, I believe the suite contributes but may not be the sole cause. (That was BS.... Just trying to be nice)

 

So... We will see what happens. Like an alcoholic, first you have to admit you have a problem (that was an opinion).

 

I don't think anyone hates you at all. You, outside an occasional rant, have tried to help folks.

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I don't think anyone hates you at all. You, outside an occasional rant, have tried to help folks.

Thanks Gramps... Ok... Now you are making me misty :)

 

Thanks though.... I try even though I don't use the software on a daily basis so my resources are a bit limited in regards to tips. In this case (topic of the thread), you do not have to be an experienced user of the suite to realize that there may be a problem.

 

But in regards to the topic of this thread.. I believe Roxio has a problem. It has been stated that they will research it and report back.

 

With that said, we will all have to wait & see.

Edited by barryware

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I hear you... However... Let there be no mistake about it. Most of the "frequent posters" or you may want to call them "Guru's", pretty much hate me.

 

I keep my posts clean, try to contribute, and except for a couple of posts I can remember, I try not to interject opinion. I try to state facts (as I see them or my experience with the suite). That may be why I have not been "banned" from the site just yet. A few of my posts have been deleted though.

 

However... Tomorrow is another day and you never know what may happen.

 

I got on your case because your post was not at all constructive. Not quite a rant, but had nothing to offer to the subject.

 

This is / was a good thread. I am looking forward to seeing what will happen. Some say the Roxio is not to blame for necessary boot files coming up missing after an install.

 

Maybe... Maybe there are circumstances that exist on the users computer that the install "pushes things over the edge". Sorta link a rock on the edge of a cliff. Maybe it will go over the edge, maybe not.

 

Because users have reported that the problem is repeatable, I believe the suite contributes but may not be the sole cause. (That was BS.... Just trying to be nice)

 

So... We will see what happens. Like an alcoholic, first you have to admit you have a problem (that was an opinion).

I don't hate anyone on these forums as I don't even know them. Maybe after I got to know you I might hate you :P (j/k). I've seen some helpful posts by you. Just because you may disagree with a person or group doesn't mean you're not welcome here. It's those that spend every waking moment spitting in the wind that I wouldn't miss.

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I don't hate anyone on these forums as I don't even know them. Maybe after I got to know you I might hate you :P (j/k). I've seen some helpful posts by you. Just because you may disagree with a person or group doesn't mean you're not welcome here. It's those that spend every waking moment spitting in the wind that I wouldn't miss.

Thanks... That did it... Now I am going to cry :wub:

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Hi jd91651,

This is an interesting theory... worth investigating. It would be helpful if anyone who has experienced the problem could let us know if they have multiple hard drives on their system.

 

In the meantime I've passed this feedback along to our engineers.

 

Thanks

Tom

 

Note to others:

the other hard drive(s) might not be IN your system. They could be a usb drive that was attached when installing or an mp3 player or flash drive in some cases.

Edited by jd91651

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Note to others:

the other hard drive(s) might not be IN your system. They could be a usb drive that was attached when installing or an mp3 player or flash drive in some cases.

 

 

If you let me know how to monitor the loading, I would be happy to do it again since it seems to be consistant on my setup.

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Hi everyone,

In an effort to keep the conversation productive I've edited one post, deleted a bunch of off topic posts and renamed the topic. Please remember that the topic is "NTLDR missing after install".

 

We have a lot of smart, passionate people contributing to this thread. Let's work together to get the facts and get to the bottom of this issue, OK? The more facts the better. Ideally, we need enough facts that we can reliably reproduce the problem. If we can reproduce the problem at Roxio we can fix it. So far we haven't been able to reproduce it.

 

The Microsoft Knowledgebase Article that Daithi (gi7omy) pointed out seems helpful. Could it be that this only occurs on systems that have a highly fragmented Master File Table? Could MFT defragmenting help prevent the problem? Keep in mind that the built-in defragmenter on Windows XP does not defragment the Master File Table... so you would have to use a 3rd party utility that can do this if you want to defragment your MFT. A brute-force method of reducing the size of your MFT is to delete files from the drive. Perhaps someone who has experienced the issue could remove as many files as possible (back them up to CD, DVD, or an external drive), then try installing EMC 10 again.

 

To be clear - Easy Media Creator's installer doesn't change drive letters.

 

As John and I mentioned our developers are looking into this. If the circumstances described in the Microsoft Knowledgebase article are the root cause, we'll do whatever we can to help avoid the problem. This is a very comprehensive software product that includes many files. Installers create temporary files, and I'm not sure what can be done to improve the way the installer operates.

 

Thanks

Tom

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Actually everybody is so convinced this just HAS to be Roxio (even tho I've seen it on other machines) that nobody seems to have bothered checking anywhere else.

 

A very interesting MS KB article here

 

"...This problem may occur if the MFT root folder is severely fragmented. If the MFT root folder contains many files, the MFT may become so fragmented that an additional allocation index is created. Because files are mapped alphabetically in the allocation indexes, the NTLDR file may be pushed to the second allocation index...."

 

Also this board is worth looking at too

 

This explanation is interesting in light of earlier posts that ppl had downloaded the install and in light of a previous post that suggested the root folder might be getting wiped out when Roxio cleans up files.

BUT

unfortunately this would NOT account for a number of ppl who have already posted in the thread (including myself) that they did a re-install or new install and had the problem. The MFT isn't going to be fragmented yet in those scenarios. Particularly if the install was done from cd.

It therefore seems unlikely to be the cause or at least the cause by itself.

 

Regardless, Unpacking the files to the root dir for the downloaded isntaller to do the install might be worth an experimental try by the roxio engs.

 

Last... the point isn't whether roxio is doing it or not... the point is that whatever is causing it, a roxio install has just taken place when it occurred. Assuming roxio is NOT directly causing it then that means that at the very least the roxio install process is not detecting a user setup scenario that could cause problems if it continues the install. Since business and reputation are at risk just by association I'm certain they would be happy to find the problem and a solution.

 

[Edit] actually after thinking about this I would have a really hard time believing that engs. as talented as the ppl who created an application as complex as this one and made it all work together would actually unpack it into the root dir to begin with. They would use user %temp% or create a folder themselves.

Edited by jd91651

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To be clear - Easy Media Creator's installer doesn't change drive letters.

 

Hmm then something happened to me in XP during the install of roxio that can trigger this drive letter switch.

Now in fairness I applied my experience with 6 to mindi's problem in 10 but the drive letters were

reassigned twice on me. Once during the 1st install from cd. I changed them back then a second time during

the isntallation of downloaded patches. I already said all that in my 1st post though...

 

...Well ok then maybe this angle may be the wrong track to follow...

 

If you let me know how to monitor the loading, I would be happy to do it again since it seems to be consistant on my setup.

Sorry for the confusion. My point was just to clarify Tom's post that asked for ppl to post whether or not they had multiple drives IN their system.

Edited by jd91651

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I hope this doesn't muddy the waters of what already has been suggested, but this site has a lot of good information regarding the "missing ntldr" problem. For those that have had this problem, you might want to look through this article of information to see if any of the possible reasons could be your case.

 

http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000465.htm

 

My suggestion is that this problem will definitely get resolved if all facts are presented.

 

Frank...

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Just an interesting note that I don't think has anything to do w/WMC10.

 

I did a firmware update on my Sony DVD RW and the drive letter was re-assigned. It has not affected performance.

 

I will plan to move what files I can to another drive and then try a re-install and see if the missing file issue continues.

Edited by Tom2

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I hope this doesn't muddy the waters of what already has been suggested, but this site has a lot of good information regarding the "missing ntldr" problem. For those that have had this problem, you might want to look through this article of information to see if any of the possible reasons could be your case.

 

http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000465.htm

 

My suggestion is that this problem will definitely get resolved if all facts are presented.

 

Frank...

 

 

OK. You want facts. I have WinXP Pro SP2 running EMC9. I decide to update to ECM10. I uninstall ECM9, install ECM10. Seems to install till restart. It then goes NTLDR missing etc. I repair. PC restarts ok. ECM10 opens. Two days later ECM10 goes into beached whale syndrome (icon refuses to respond, shortcut refuses to respond, exe refuses to respond). I uninstall. I do a clean install. NTDLR goes missing on restart. I repair. ECM10 seems to work. Two days later goes into beached whale syndrome. I give up. Software not working, system compromised, I uninstall, delete everything Roxio + Sonic. I reinstall ECM9. This seems to work. I post a query asking for help and advice on the so-called Roxio community site. I get a lot of rubbish saying it's all Bill Gates's fault and those good people at Roxio are fixing it... sometime in the murky future. In the meantime I'm a considerable amount of money poorer, and have a PC that's undermined by non-functioning software. What does Roxio do? It deletes my post and related correspondence. Some community.

 

A.

.

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