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NTLDR is missing after installing EMC 10


mindy01

Question

Bought EMC 10 when I got the upgrade email, through the download service. Installed it no problem and began to poke around a bit. No issues. Then came back yesterday and noticed that nothing was working from the "web" style front-page. When I tried to click on the caputure video, nothing happend. Other links did not work as well and some threw up error messages. Decided to reinstall again. After the rebott, my Windows XP wouldn't come up, left with a message of "NTLDR is missing, press any key to restart" at a black screen. Could not get around this, had to google search, get a file, reboot from floppy, etc. Whole workaround. Did a system restore back before EMC 10 and everything was fine. Tried install again. Rebot machine and NTLDR gone again. Finally got back to XP and got rid of EMC 10, went back and reinstalled EMC 9. I am asking for refund of EMC 10.

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Thanks for your excellent suggestions. I have posted several times here, so will save the space by not repeating it now. I have already done most of what you suggested, though. The files are indeed gone.

 

I feel reasonably confident at this point in saying that even though the files in c:\ are being deleted it is not the result of an mft issue. There is some other reason that the files are being deleted.

 

Why?

If the fragmented mft combined with a full disk was the problem then you would see the ntldr file (and the other boot files) in c:\ even though you were getting the ntldr missing error. This is because the missing ntldr problem described in the MS article occurs when the a re-arrangement of the mft index records occurs due to the addition of files and pushes the ntldr file indexes past the 1st mft segment into the second index fragment of the mft. The files are not deleted they are still present in the mft and can be seen in the root folder C:\ as long as windows (or some other os) is running. The missing ntldr occurs because once this happens the boot loader itself (not the windows os) cannot see the ntldr file in the second segment or beyond. The boot loader is only able to locate the ntldr if it is in the 1st segment. Thus the missing ntldr.

 

Since this is fixed in SP2 either MS tweaked the boot loader or they did something to insure the ntldr never gets into the second segment....whatever.

 

So we need to look at something else...mft is not the problem in my opinion.

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And, as I mentioned before, it happened on my PC and not my laptop. I believe I have all of the same MS updates on both machines. None of the C:\ files were missing on the laptop.

 

I wonder if the patch just adds the files back, since they should be gone by the time of needing to reboot.

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When you boot up from the CD select 'R' for repair at the first blue screen and go to the C drive

 

There are two commands - fixboot and fixmbr

 

Fixboot will try to repair the boot and fixmbr is a bit more likely to cause damage as it will rewrite the master boot record and that can cause problems with the partition table

 

As I said earlier, this is NOT down to Roxio as I've seen it happening recently on machines that don't have any CD software installed (I get paid for fixing them and I'm still at a loss to understand why it's suddenly becoming prevalent - there are no virus warnings going to suggest that's what it is)

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Just for fun, I looked at the MFT's on all my rigs at home (5) as well as my computer at work.

 

My rigs at home except for one, all have XP pro. The odd one had MCE 2005. My rig at work has W2k sp4.

 

They all report a bit differently in regards to MFT size & record count. They all report the same in regards to % in use & total MFT fragments.

 

Most if not all the rigs have multiple drives. I only checked the boot drives. All drives are NTFS.

 

Donno if this helps... Donno what it means.

 

Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation

Total MFT size = 54,256 KB

MFT record count = 54,131

Percent MFT in use = 99 %

Total MFT fragments = 2

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I found the problem... Tom2.. In your sig, you state your monitor is : Monitor -- BenQ FP951

 

This is a well know issue... That monitor will cause the Nt Loader to come up missing every time :D

 

J/K.... Just a little Roxio Humor.. :)

 

Wow, thanks.

 

Just got my new monitor plugged in and ntldr is certainly in the drive. Wait, didn't I load that back in after the last install?

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Sorry for jumping in here but I have read most of this thread about the NTLDR problem. I am now using Vista Home premium and it would seem the problem is reported by XP users. Is that assumption correct ot has it also been reported for Vista

 

It is ironic because my other PC crashed three months ago from the very same NTLDR problem and it was unrelated to Roxio. I had been using EMC7 on it for a long time and no problems. The NTLDR came at me out of the blue and I was out of service for a few days reloading XP and recovering my data. The folks that helped me with the NTLDR problem could not identify what caused it. I keep a really clean PC and do all the housekeeping stuff on a regular basis. A complete reformat and reinstall was the only solution after backing up everything.

 

In the interim I had to buy a new PC for my home office, and it has vista. I am without any EMC and been sitting on the fence thinking about getting the upgrade and then I read all about this and I certainly would not want to experience this error with the new Vista system. I need it for work and play and do not have the time to reload and rebuild .

 

So can anyone, especially from Roxio, say with some level of confidence whether or not I may have a problem or is it a crap shoot?

 

Thanks

 

Bill

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When you said you downloaded two files, that is correct - however, a lot of posters here say they 'downloaded' when they actually installed from a disc :lol:

 

The retail version is one disc - but the download was split in two to (supposedly) make it easier to get

 

....or it depends to the different language versions. WinOnCD uses the German Program file, but the same Content file as EMC.

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I had/have the same problem (missing NTLDR). After reinstalling REMC10 for the 3rd or 4th time, I chose not restart right away. Looking in the C: root directory NTLDR and NTDETECT were gone. I copied them back (from the XP disk) and had a successful reboot. Now the MPEG-2 codecs is missing or screwed up. :angry2:

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While hosting the repair article is nice, can you tell us if you are still working on the source of the issue (hinted at earlier), and a downloadable "non-threatening" version.

Yes, we are still looking into the issue. Thanks for your patience on this one. We are also still watching the forum and reading all your posts so I don't want you guys to think that the lack of a reply every day means we are ignoring this issue.

 

You can't do anything about boxed product already shipped, but correcting it in future releases would be a big plus.

Very good point. Once we have a final solution, we'll have to figure out how to deliver it.

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Count another person in with the missing NTLDR. I upgraded from EMC9 to EMC10 and when it rebooted, several files were missing from the root of C:. I made up a floppy with NTDETECT.COM, ntldr and boot.ini and was able to boot using that. I then did an undelete from the recycle bin of the deleted files and am back in business. I have never had that happen before and it was the first reboot after installing EMC10, so it must be from that.

 

Although Windows is back, I am having a problem running EMC10. I'll put that in another post to not mix it up with this thread.

 

Stan

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I used the group policy editor, gpedit.msc, to specify that it should run at shutdown.

 

XP Home edition does not have gpedit. For XP home users who have this problem (fortunately I don't myself), it would be extremely helplful if you could suggest what registry edits are needed to get your bat file to run automatically at shut down (of course, they could run it manually). Or is it only needed once after the install of EMC 10?

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One thing that I will say, the frequent posters on this site are remarkable: You are all extremely kind to Roxio. The last time I installed software on a computer that rendered it unbootable, it came on a 5 1/4" floppy disk.

I hear you... However... Let there be no mistake about it. Most of the "frequent posters" or you may want to call them "Guru's", pretty much hate me.

 

I keep my posts clean, try to contribute, and except for a couple of posts I can remember, I try not to interject opinion. I try to state facts (as I see them or my experience with the suite). That may be why I have not been "banned" from the site just yet. A few of my posts have been deleted though.

 

However... Tomorrow is another day and you never know what may happen.

 

I got on your case because your post was not at all constructive. Not quite a rant, but had nothing to offer to the subject.

 

This is / was a good thread. I am looking forward to seeing what will happen. Some say the Roxio is not to blame for necessary boot files coming up missing after an install.

 

Maybe... Maybe there are circumstances that exist on the users computer that the install "pushes things over the edge". Sorta link a rock on the edge of a cliff. Maybe it will go over the edge, maybe not.

 

Because users have reported that the problem is repeatable, I believe the suite contributes but may not be the sole cause. (That was BS.... Just trying to be nice)

 

So... We will see what happens. Like an alcoholic, first you have to admit you have a problem (that was an opinion).

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Another victim of EMC 10. Just when it seemed the installation was about to finish..system crashes..missing NTLDR.....after pulling my first failed hardrive out Ihave learned that I can temp swap another windows xp (sp2) bootdrive into IDE1 and copy over the NTLDR files to the crashed drive and revive the boot drive (I have duplicated the same problem 2x). I loaded the same downloaded EMC program on to another computer that has nothing but windows xp installed and there was no problem with install. My C drive has 74 GB free/ 124Gb. Windows reports that C does not need to be defrag..but will do and try another install to help the cause.

In my situation, the crash occurs right before installation finishes...would it help if we knew the installation sequence Roxio is using...if others are crashing at the same time..

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I hear you... However... Let there be no mistake about it. Most of the "frequent posters" or you may want to call them "Guru's", pretty much hate me.

 

I keep my posts clean, try to contribute, and except for a couple of posts I can remember, I try not to interject opinion. I try to state facts (as I see them or my experience with the suite). That may be why I have not been "banned" from the site just yet. A few of my posts have been deleted though.

 

However... Tomorrow is another day and you never know what may happen.

 

I got on your case because your post was not at all constructive. Not quite a rant, but had nothing to offer to the subject.

 

This is / was a good thread. I am looking forward to seeing what will happen. Some say the Roxio is not to blame for necessary boot files coming up missing after an install.

 

Maybe... Maybe there are circumstances that exist on the users computer that the install "pushes things over the edge". Sorta link a rock on the edge of a cliff. Maybe it will go over the edge, maybe not.

 

Because users have reported that the problem is repeatable, I believe the suite contributes but may not be the sole cause. (That was BS.... Just trying to be nice)

 

So... We will see what happens. Like an alcoholic, first you have to admit you have a problem (that was an opinion).

 

I don't think anyone hates you at all. You, outside an occasional rant, have tried to help folks.

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Tom.... John.....

 

What is happening? What have the engineers found? The thread is growing with more & more users reporting the same problem.

Hi Barryware,

Our engineers have been able to replicate the issue in-house. I haven't been able to get more details from our engineers yet... they are still investigating the circumstances that cause the problem. While the vast majority of EMC 10 customers are able to install just fine, we understand that this is a serious problem for those who encounter it. The fix for the problem is to boot with a Windows OS CD (or another boot drive), then copy the boot files back to your boot disk. I'll provide more information as soon as I have it.

 

Tom

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If you have a Windows XP disc, you can try this for the missing NTLDR problem: As an example, I will use G as the letter designation for your CD/DVD drive.

 

Boot your computer from the XP disc. Once it gets to where you can select the Recovery Console, do so. You should get a Command prompt. Type the following in the Command prompt.

 

copy G:\i386\ntldr c:\

 

I used G as an example. Type in the actual letter of your CD/DVD drive. It's worth a shot.

 

BTW, if when in the Recovery Console, you get the enter Administrator Password, ignore it. The Command prompt should be below it, I think.

And be advised, it probably will not work…

 

Any drive that loses its' NTLDR is a suspect drive. I usually replace the drive after a bought with NTLDR.

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