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NTLDR is missing after installing EMC 10


mindy01

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Bought EMC 10 when I got the upgrade email, through the download service. Installed it no problem and began to poke around a bit. No issues. Then came back yesterday and noticed that nothing was working from the "web" style front-page. When I tried to click on the caputure video, nothing happend. Other links did not work as well and some threw up error messages. Decided to reinstall again. After the rebott, my Windows XP wouldn't come up, left with a message of "NTLDR is missing, press any key to restart" at a black screen. Could not get around this, had to google search, get a file, reboot from floppy, etc. Whole workaround. Did a system restore back before EMC 10 and everything was fine. Tried install again. Rebot machine and NTLDR gone again. Finally got back to XP and got rid of EMC 10, went back and reinstalled EMC 9. I am asking for refund of EMC 10.

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Above was questioned about what was in the boot.ini:

[boot loader]

timeout=30

default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS

[operating systems]

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn

Well.... Seems that there is something amiss in the EMC10 install routine. there are a few reports of the files required to boot coming up missing after an install

 

If you look at the boot.ini file above, you can see that Tom2's OS is installed on the second partition. (first partition = partition(0), not partition(1)).

 

Oem machines that have the OS pre-installed typically include a FAT partition of some type in which system utilities are stored. This partition is usually hidden & inactive. If you ever get on the phone with the maker of the machine, they will instruct you you to unhide the partition so you can get to the utilities. That helps phone support figure out your problem.

 

gi7omy... There have been posts that after the install of EMC10, users drives are re-lettered and from time to time the rig is not bootable because necessary boot files are missing.

 

Maybe the partition that the OS is installed on has something to do with it. Maybe someone at Roxio can check it out.

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Try copying ntldr, ntdetect.com and boot.ini back to your C:\ drive. If you are going to install EMC10 again onto that drive, copy all files in C:\ root directory not in folders into a backup folder. Install EMC10 and before re-booting, check the C:\ drive for those folders. If not there, copy them back for the backup folder then re-boot.

 

 

I don't get the opportunity to check before rebooting..my system gives me the blue screen just before the installation finishes. I have had the files in the root directory and they have been deleted by the installation

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In fact, I can't find any posting regarding this issue in the German Forum, could it be, that the different language files or different added program parts are causing that error?

 

Edit: Could it be, that separating the beta into two (or more) versions causes this problem? :unsure:

 

It also could be only the different Number of installed suites. Maybe the error comes up with more purchased WinOnCD's (the German twin of EMC).

 

gebi

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The more I research the problem the more it seems likely that it is caused by the MFT (Master File Table) on your hard drive becoming too big and too fragmented. This is caused by a number of factors, but you are most likely to have this problem if you have used more than 87.5% of the available space on your primary hard drive (at any time in the past). The more files you add and delete, the more fragmented your MFT will become. Adding a large number of files (for instance, installing a large program like EMC 10) could trigger the "NTLDR is missing" problem.

See also... http://www.diskeeper.com/eletter/previous/...1999110261.html

 

If possible, I would like to ask you and anyone else affected by the problem to do the following...

1 - Check your MFT fragmentation. Open My Computer. Right-click on your boot drive and choose "properties". Choose the "Tools" tab. Choose "Defragment Now...". Select your boot drive and press "Analyze". Choose "View Report", and under "volume information" scroll down to the section that describes your MFT. Please write these values down and let us know what you find. If your MFT is in more than 2 fragments, or if more than 90% of your MFT is in use this might be the cause of your problems.

2 - Clear off as many files from your hard drive as possible. Back them up to CD, DVD, another hard drive, or simply delete files that you no longer need. Ideally you should have at least 30% of your hard drive free.

3 - use an advanced defragmentation tool that offers "offline" defragmentation of the MFT (this would happen when you reboot, before Windows starts). I would start with Diskeeper 2007 (they have a free trial available).

4 - Re-check your MFT size and fragmentation (repeat step 1).

5 - Install EMC 10.

 

I look forward to your (hopefully positive) feedback.

 

Tom

 

C:\ drive is 60% free

MFT is 262MB

Record Count = 264,925

98% in use

3 MFT fragments

 

SP2 was a downloaded update

 

Will try the offline defrag

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I think, the main point seem to be the system protection.

 

As Jacob Marley posted, the only survived file on his system was protected by the OS.

 

On my system all the three named files and some additional (including 'pagefile.sys') are system protected.

 

If these files are normaly protected by the OS, Roxio can't delete them. Otherwise this must happen to all users.

 

The unprotection of the named files must be done by another program or a virus or any other reason.

The boot files that come up missing are also protected (HSR attributes). The pagefile is typically in use and that may be why it does not get deleted.

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The only saving grace to all of this is that Roxio was very quick in giving me a refund on my EMC 10 purchase. After having to make the fix several times just to get my machine to boot I figured it wasn't worth the upgrade. So I'll make due with EMC 9 which at least I know won't destroy my machine.

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I failed to mention initially that I had done a Google search for "ntldr is missing" and linked on this site http://tinyempire.com/notes/ntldrismissing.htm . Downloaded the freeware file to my laptop and copied to a floppy (yes they do still exist and came in really handy this time). Was able to boot from the floppy and eventually copied the booting files from there. No endorsement meant, but this floppy did get me up and running again.

 

I have found nothing wrong with my drive or XP OS on all of the diagnostic programs listed.

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Roxio

Thanks for all the great advice on this forum

I also have several disks accessible all the time. When my laptop(Toshiba M35X-S309 /pre- installed Win XP\SP2) went down, I did have a smart drive in it at the time. And I do a defrag once a week using JK defrag. I have everything up and running after almost 20hrs into it. :angry::angry: I have retreived the older Sonic Record Now V7.22 and they are working ok. :D

 

I'm afraid to try again to install EMC10 on this computer. BUT!!!! I have installed it on my wife's IBM Thinkpad with no problems(boy, was I hesitant on that one). So, it is not the CD that is the problem. The IBM also had preinstalled Sonic Software, I don't remember the version. The install saw the previos version and had a successful install. Where my Toshiba did not see a previous version and hence all the problems. Also when the CD arrived there was no installation info shipped with it. I had no idea that I had to uninstall anything prior to install.

 

At least we have a working copy, now to learn how to use it. :unsure:

 

Thanks for all that have helped

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Hi jd91651,

This is an interesting theory... worth investigating. It would be helpful if anyone who has experienced the problem could let us know if they have multiple hard drives on their system.

 

In the meantime I've passed this feedback along to our engineers.

 

Thanks

Tom

This happened to me with EMC10 but I wasn't alert at the time if it was V10 or not. Why? After I installed it, I didn't immediately reboot to check it out. I had work to do and my machine was left on overnight and when I rebooted much more than 12 hours (and a good nights sleep) later, it hit me. I wasn't even thinking that I installed new software. Just got my XP disc out and fixed the problem.

Yes, I have multiple drives. Had 2 then so what you see in my sig was added after this happened. Sorry, but since I was caught not at full attention, I don't have any other helpful info I can add.

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I have been trying to reinstall Roxio Suite 8 which suddenly stopped working.

After reading the horror stories I have decided to go for a freebie. The helpful person who says he has had the same problem with Computers which which didnt have Roxio installed. How does he know they werent installed previously? I suddenly had problems with files being renamed and since i uninstalled Roxio it hasnt happend.

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Never heard of that... I just tried it and my machine still boots with the attributes changed.

 

It's from '1984' ;)

 

It's never a good idea to remove system attributes from boot files - all sorts of strange things can happen (and usually not nice ones)

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I don't get the opportunity to check before rebooting..my system gives me the blue screen just before the installation finishes. I have had the files in the root directory and they have been deleted by the installation

So you are stating that the install trashed your computer?

 

Blue screen... Won't boot.... Get the "missing ntldr" message when you try a boot after install?

 

What monitor do you have?

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The more I research the problem the more it seems likely that it is caused by the MFT (Master File Table) on your hard drive becoming too big and too fragmented. This is caused by a number of factors, but you are most likely to have this problem if you have used more than 87.5% of the available space on your primary hard drive (at any time in the past). The more files you add and delete, the more fragmented your MFT will become. Adding a large number of files (for instance, installing a large program like EMC 10) could trigger the "NTLDR is missing" problem.

See also... http://www.diskeeper.com/eletter/previous/...1999110261.html

 

If possible, I would like to ask you and anyone else affected by the problem to do the following...

1 - Check your MFT fragmentation. Open My Computer. Right-click on your boot drive and choose "properties". Choose the "Tools" tab. Choose "Defragment Now...". Select your boot drive and press "Analyze". Choose "View Report", and under "volume information" scroll down to the section that describes your MFT. Please write these values down and let us know what you find. If your MFT is in more than 2 fragments, or if more than 90% of your MFT is in use this might be the cause of your problems.

2 - Clear off as many files from your hard drive as possible. Back them up to CD, DVD, another hard drive, or simply delete files that you no longer need. Ideally you should have at least 30% of your hard drive free.

3 - use an advanced defragmentation tool that offers "offline" defragmentation of the MFT (this would happen when you reboot, before Windows starts). I would start with Diskeeper 2007 (they have a free trial available).

4 - Re-check your MFT size and fragmentation (repeat step 1).

5 - Install EMC 10.

 

I look forward to your (hopefully positive) feedback.

 

Tom

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I don't get the opportunity to check before rebooting..my system gives me the blue screen just before the installation finishes. I have had the files in the root directory and they have been deleted by the installation

 

Ooo, I thought I had problems with it. I did find a boot disk online that worked well. But your Windows disc will likely work better. Boot up with it and copy the appropriate files. You hopefully won't have to do any major changes to the hard drive. That is a novice's opinion, mind you.

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Reading this thread through again, it is clear that the various "experts" have completely missed the point.

 

1. "NTLDR missing" is a symptom, not a root cause.

 

2. The root cause is that EMC10 Reinstallation deletes all files in the root (C:\) directory. The only "survivor" is pagefile.sys, which is protected by the Operating System.

 

Having experienced this myself, it is 100% repeatable every time EMC10 is reinstalled on my PC - and I've had to do it a lot of times.

 

Your blanket statement is ridiculous. I have reinstalled EMC 10 5 or 6 times and never once have I had the "NTLDR is missing" message nor has any file in the root directory been deleted.

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This thread has been open for 24 days now. It seems that the issue with NTLDRs suddenly going missing could have been quickly resolved if someone from Roxio had stated 'we do not rename drive letters'. I don't think that this is too much to ask.

BM.... Do you have something to say or are you just "jumping in"..?

 

Yea... If Roxio would have said "we do not rename drive letters", that would have solved everything.

 

So far, this has been a very constructive thread. It looks like Roxio may be paying attention. Lets try not to muck it up.

 

Have a good weekend.

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I really doubt that EMC did that - as I said, I've had to repair customers' computers with the identical fault and in only ONE case was any Roxio app installed.

 

What is causing it and why I just don't know, but it's definitely NOT any app from anyone (there was no common connection beyond XP and updates (not even IE7 or WMP 11)

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As John and I mentioned our developers are looking into this. If the circumstances described in the Microsoft Knowledgebase article are the root cause, we'll do whatever we can to help avoid the problem. This is a very comprehensive software product that includes many files. Installers create temporary files, and I'm not sure what can be done to improve the way the installer operates.

 

Thanks

Tom

Tom.... John.....

 

What is happening? What have the engineers found? The thread is growing with more & more users reporting the same problem.

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Just to add to the chorus, I purchased a new Dell XPS 720 that came with EMC9 DE preinstalled. I purchased EMC10, and after installing it on my brand new box, I had the same "missing NTLDR" file problems as outlined. The good news is that Dell XPS technicians have been fantastic, but the damage apparently caused by the EMC 10 install resulted in Dell having to ship and new 500 GB drive, and I had to completely start over with my program installs. The other good news is that I'm now a pro at retrieving my NTLDR file and rebuilding my boot.ini file that is also damaged by the EMC 10 process.

 

I wrote Roxio support asking for guidance before trying an install of EMC 10. The response seemed off base and more trouble than it's worth.

 

Does anybody know if Roxio is going to fix this? Despite some of the posts I've read, the data seem solid that the problem is related to the EMC10 install process, especially when considering this was a brand new, high end Quad Core machine.

 

Ed

Memphis, TN

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I continue to be amazed at how some people here have their heads in the sand. Just because this file disappearance issue does not happen to everyone, don't assume that it is not happening to some. Roxio has already admitted that they know of the problem and are working on a fix.

 

On my particular system and set of software environments, this problem has been 100% reproducible for the first installation and every re-installation after. This has been recounted by me and others several times on this thread. Why would Walt and others be so adamant that it can't happen when some of us seem to have nothing better to do than spend countless hours repairing our systems and trying to find answers?

 

Walt, go back and read all of these and tell me that all of us are ridiculous. If anything, your stance by not listening is the ridiculous one. Don't be so pompous and listen to what others are saying. I believe that we are all here for help in improving our programs and skills.

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Your blanket statement is ridiculous. I have reinstalled EMC 10 5 or 6 times and never once have I had the "NTLDR is missing" message nor has any file in the root directory been deleted.

 

A suggestion to you, myguggi...

 

Unprotect the following files in your root drive:

boot.ini

ntdetect.com

ntdlr

pagefile.sys

 

Then reinstall EMC10, and reboot your PC.

 

Have a nice day.

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