My thumbs are rotting!

[ffox1]

As with many here, I am in the middle of upgrading to EMC10 from an earlier version -- EMC7, in my case. Challenges have occurred, but I have been able to work through many of the issues by quietly reading the entries in this Community Forum. The resources in these pages are considerable, and I would like to thank all who toil here without (apparent) recognition!

 

Even with all of the progress made, there remains a short list of -- to me -- baffling issues. Let's start with this one:

 

In the Storyline mode of VideoWave 10, the thumbnail picture in each panel shows as a clear, miniaturized replica of the larger image it represents. At least, it starts out that way. Over time, the image becomes more and more pixilated -- more anonymous and less useful. It looks as if moths are eating through the pictures. Soon, all color disappears, leaving behind a checkerboard of black and white.

 

Now, I don't deal with subjects that would invite censoring, so I’m guessing it’s NOT some sort of undocumented Roxio "keep it clean" subroutine with its nose in the air. (What next – blue dots on the faces?)

 

The biggest clue I can offer is that the thumbnail seems to rot a bit more every time I edit a picture with Pan & Zoom. It almost seems as if the thumbnail image is rebuilt at the end of each editing session -- and that the old thumbnail is "thumbnailized" instead of the larger (just edited) picture. But that's just a guess.

 

Now, I know this problem doesn't rank up there with endemic BSODs or random operator electrocutions, but it IS baffling, and worthy, I hope, of some effort to resolve.

 

Thank you all in advance.

 

Tom

 

PS. Although this is apparently not the forum for showing off, I'd invite you to peek at my first EMC10 effort:

.

[ffox1]

Right click on one of the rotting thumbnails and look at the properties. Add the same image fresh to the storyline and look at those properties. Is there a difference? If not, perhaps it is a display issue.

 

There is no difference, alas. (Excellent troubleshooting suggestion, however!) Here's a partial list of the properties -- identical for both panels:

 

File Name: Fires07.JPG

File Size: 2.05 Mbytes

Image Size: 2592 x 851 pixels

dpi: 300

Bit Depth 24 bit(16.8 million colors)

Color Space: RGB

 

I've been trying to puzzle out how the program is supposed to work, maybe to aid in understanding how mine is broken. Tell me what you think of this "first principles" approach:

 

It's apparent that the files that make up a VideoWave "project" (a .dmsm file and associated .DAT file) do not hold the actual pictures and video clips that make up the project. They are far too small, for one thing.

 

And we have all seen this kind of big question mark when opening a project. It means that the image that is supposed to go in that panel has been renamed, erased or moved. After the image is restored, the display properly shows this.

 

Notice that in both of the above shots, the transitions surrounding the empty panel display "properly." How can they "know" what is in the missing panel? The obvious answer is that they don't need to know -- the thumbnail image must exist somewhere in those .dmsm or .DAT files.

 

So it seems evident that the thumbnail images themselves are not regenerated when the program loads, but are carried forward from earlier sessions. . . . and, somehow, pick up a little rot during each cycle. Cycle of what? At first, I thought it was the opening and closing of a Pan & Zoom editing session -- but the problem exists even for those panels that have never been P&Z-ed.

 

Which brings us to the proxy files, an apparently important part of the Roxio design that I am a long way from understanding. For this project, there exists a proxy file which appears to be identical to the "red sunrise" pic show above - except it is sized at 1024 x 731 pixels.

 

It is instructive to watch the proxy folder (kind of hard to find, by the way -- it's "hidden.") as you clear it (in VideoWave Tools/Options) and watch it build as you reload a project.

 

Ah, well . . . I'm still thinking about reloading VideoWave. Does that make sense to you?

 

Thanks again,

Tom

 

PS. To answer more completely to your earlier query re: zoom amounts, here is how this particular panel has been edited in P&Z.

[ffox1]

That certainly is strange. Grasping at straws here, but go to Control Panel, click on Display, then click on Settings, then Advanced. Is the DPI Setting set to 96 DPI? If it isn't, set it to 96 DPI.

 

I just checked -- It IS set to 96DPI.

 

Here are some additional tests I've attempted, following the "bad video adapter'driver" route:

 

1. In VideoWave 10 tools/options, I set "Render Using" radio button to SOFTWARE. No difference.

 

2. Attempted to disable graphics card by "disabling display adapter" in Device Manager, then reboot. Next, started up VideoWave and got error message "There is insufficient Graphics capabillity for application . . ." Ah, well . . .

 

After re-enabling display adapter & rebooting, VideoWave starts up with the "Video card will now be profiled . . ." message (as expected). The numbers flashing during the test were in the 200 - 300 range, if that helps.

 

I'm thinking next of re-installing/repairing Videowave 10 via Add/Remove Programs. Is there a way to do this without re-instaling the whole EMC10 suite?

 

Thanks for your interest!

 

Tom

 

 

I notice that in your "closeup" the transition panel even seems to be pixelated. Is that right? That really is strange and would indicate some video card problem

 

You are correct, sir! My transistions are rotting, too! It would seem this would be an important clue should it ever meet up with a programmer and the VideoWave source code in the same room.

 

(But if I am the only one with the problem, it hardly looks to be coding error, does it?)

 

Tom

[jeanrosenfeld]

Thanks, I stand corrected.

[bimicher]

To answer your question first:

 

This VideoWave 10 project contains a range of source resolutions, from 10MG jpgs (3000 x 2500 pixels or so) to 640 x 480 movie files, all from a little Point & Shoot camera. The "rot" appears to progress equally for all pictures, alas.

 

Now for your fascinating revelation -- the secret key to unlocking the mysteries of the dmsm file. Who could guess (I certainly didn't!) that the Secret Decoding Ring was humble NOTEBOOK? Talk about hiding in plain sight! The first time I scanned through the dmsm file for this project, I felt like Cypher scanning the raw bones of The Matrix in dripping green letters. The screen shows some that was familiar, but the underlying structure is evidently known only to the Roxio Magisterium (to mix the movie metaphors). Actually, the dmsm file looks to be a giant script file that directs the building of the project during start-up.

 

Now to the DAT file --

 

Emboldened by myguggi's revelation, I went looking inside this file for thumbnail images. It didn't take long for Google to unearth a shareware utility that looks through a HEX files seeking pictures. I ran it once and Bingo! This is what it found inside the DAT file for this project. It appears that each thumbnail image, as well as each transition image, is contained in the DAT file -- some more than once. (In fact, the DAT file contains more than 200 such images for this 60-panel project.)

 

Now, it appears as if one could develop a tool to re-insert "proper" thumbnail images into the DAT file, thus curing the rot problem. I would not be surprised if someone has already done this. But this is as far as I need to go in this investigation, all I wanted to do was test the theory that the thumbnail images were "held over" from session to session, and not rebuilt afresh each time.

 

But does this disprove the "it's a bad video card/driver" theory? Not at all; there is still something going on that causes "the rot," and it could be anything at this point.

 

So here I am: A lot of good advice from this board, guided by the wealth of experience here, has revealed scads of useful information. But the problem persists, and I feel as if my toes are back on the starting line once more. (Do I dare look at my TOEnails?)

 

Tom

 

If you temporarily change the dmsm extension to xml, you can open the dmsm file using Internet Explorer. It gives a color-coded parsing of the file. Windows Word also opens the dmsm file. dmsd files can also be examined the same way. Using IE it is much easier to decode the file structure. You have to know a little bit about XML though. Just remember to change the extensions back to their correct type.

 

What shareware utility did you use to examine the thumbnails inside the dat file? Of course the reason for the thumbnails is that they do not have to be regenrated every time you open a project. I have never seen or heard of the "rotting" thumbnails problem before. It has to be something related to your system & hardware

[james_hardin]

Re: Landings. Yes, it's a bad habit. But as bad habits go, there are worse ones . . .

 

Tom

It was also off the centerline as soon as the takeoff started.

 

Sloppiness is one bad habit we don't need in aviation… Nor do we need excuses for it!

[ffox1]

It was also off the centerline as soon as the takeoff started.

 

Sloppiness is one bad habit we don't need in aviation… Nor do we need excuses for it!

 

Agreed. As you noted in Post #2, I was not PIC on that hop.

 

RT Fox

ATP 2044320

[ffox1]

If you temporarily change the dmsm extension to xml, you can open the dmsm file using Internet Explorer. It gives a color-coded parsing of the file. Windows Word also opens the dmsm file. dmsd files can also be examined the same way. Using IE it is much easier to decode the file structure. You have to know a little bit about XML though. Just remember to change the extensions back to their correct type.

 

What shareware utility did you use to examine the thumbnails inside the dat file? Of course the reason for the thumbnails is that they do not have to be regenrated every time you open a project. I have never seen or heard of the "rotting" thumbnails problem before. It has to be something related to your system & hardware

 

(Sorry to disappear on you like that; the holidays are keeping me blissfully busy.)

 

Thank you for the further revelations into the Roxio file structures! There's a little devil whispering in my ear to "change something" in all that accessible code -- but I'm sure that such an activity would take me far beyond the aid of Roxio -- or of this community!

 

Re: The "reveal JPG embedded in DAT files" shareware -- I removed the program soon after this forum gave me the solution to the problem, and I cannot find it again now! I recall locating it almost instantly with a Google search something like "HEX file reader Roxio," but that doesn't find anything useful now. Sorry.

 

I'm beginning to think there IS something wrong with my video card/driver/setup. The very next problem on my "headache" list is the "No items to show in this view" error when attempting to access transitions, overlays, text effects, etc. in VideoWave 10. Unfortunately, the easy solutions revealed here and here do not work for my system.

 

I note there is a some overlapping -- and contradictory -- discussion of this issue in the Dell XPS forum. I'm still bringing myself up to speed on this whole graphic interface issue. If I run out of ideas, I hope to bother you again!

 

Thanks, again!

 

Tom

 

Added 12/30:

 

I found it -- AllMediaGrabber at http://www.fotissoftware.com/multimedia.htm. I don't necessarily recommend it, but it did the job for this case!

 

T.

[james_hardin]

Agreed. As you noted in Post #2, I was not PIC on that hop.

 

RT Fox

ATP 2044320

Somehow I had a vision of you 'driving' and holding the camcorder…

 

ATP MEL 1902677, CFII, COM Land & Sea, Glider (considering Rotorcraft???)

[ffox1]

Somehow I had a vision of you 'driving' and holding the camcorder…

 

ATP MEL 1902677, CFII, COM Land & Sea, Glider (considering Rotorcraft???)

 

". . . 'driving' and holding . . ."

 

Now, THAT would have been sloppy!

 

Tom

[REDWAGON]

I notice that in your "closeup" the transition panel even seems to be pixelated. Is that right? That really is strange and would indicate some video card problem

 

I have the same hunch as Walt. I think your problem lies in the videocard.

 

Frank...

[james_hardin]

Update your Video Card Drivers.

 

Next time, try to find a pilot who can actually keep the aircraft on the Centerline of the runway…

[ffox1]

Update your Video Card Drivers.

 

Next time, try to find a pilot who can actually keep the aircraft on the Centerline of the runway…

 

OK, you caught me. There was an outstanding NVIDIA driver update -- which I installed this morning, thanks to you.

 

. . . but the problem did not go away.

 

Re: Landings. Yes, it's a bad habit. But as bad habits go, there are worse ones . . .

 

Tom

 

Dell XPS M1210

Intel Core Duo T2400 1828 MHz

2GB RAM

100GB 7200RPM HD +160GB & 250GB external USB

NEC DVD RW ND-6650A

Dell E228WFP monitor

NVIDIA GeForce Go 7400 (driver 6.14.11.5665 9/19/07)

Windows XP Professional (Media Center)

(Ver 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 Build 2600)

[ffox1]

This

Nice video. A couple of questions, are you doing a manual pan and zoom or are you using the auto motion?

What is the resolution of what you are zooming in on and how much are you zooming in? Video or still images? If you zoom in, the zoom essentially enlarges the pixels in a portion of the video/image. If the initial resolution is low or if you are doing a high zoom, you will most likely see pixelation.

 

Also, the infamous "Clear your proxy files". While your project is open in VideoWave, go to tools, options and press the clear proxy files button. You would get the same clearing if you shout down the project and reopen it.

 

Did you watch the video how to on Pan and Zoom (in EMC 9 Tips and Tricks)? I do a lot of pan nd zoom and I don't see that behavior but I don't have the same computer and video set up that you do..

 

Thanks for your meaty questions!

 

Yes, I did study the P&Z video, but thought I'd attempt to acquire that particular skillset later; all of my work was "Manual."

 

Typically, I'd use a still JPG right out of the camera, touched up a bit with PhotoSuite 10. The example shown below is 2692 x 1841 pixels. The movies are straight out of the camera: MOV files at 640 x 480.

For most, I zoomed in enough to pick a 16:9-shaped piece out of the native 4:3 format -- plus maybe 2x or 3x additional zoom at the most.

 

"Clear your proxy files" -- Hmmm, somehow, this capability slipped by me. Thanks for the heads-up. Sadly, running the "clear proxy files" did not help my rotted thumbs . . .

 

I probably set you off in the wrong direction by fingering Pan & Zoom as the culprit; in fact, the thumbs are rotting even on panels that have never been Pan & Zoomed! Sorry.

 

Let's see if this works:

 

This is a photo of the problem I'm looking at now. It's a dmsm file open in Videowave 10. The file has been opened and closed a few dozen times over the past couple of weeks. For the photo, I've inserted a "fresh" copy of the selected panel for comparison. That's how the panel just to the left of it started out. Here is a close-up.

 

Still hopeful of success,

 

Tom

 

Dell XPS M1210

Intel Core Duo T2400 1828 MHz

2GB RAM

100GB 7200RPM HD +160GB & 250GB external USB

NEC DVD RW ND-6650A

Dell E228WFP monitor

NVIDIA GeForce Go 7400 (driver 6.14.11.5665 9/19/07)

Windows XP Professional (Media Center)

(Ver 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 Build 2600)

[sknis]

In the Storyline mode of VideoWave 10, the thumbnail picture in each panel shows as a clear, miniaturized replica of the larger image it represents. At least, it starts out that way. Over time, the image becomes more and more pixilated -- more anonymous and less useful. It looks as if moths are eating through the pictures. Soon, all color disappears, leaving behind a checkerboard of black and white.

 

The biggest clue I can offer is that the thumbnail seems to rot a bit more every time I edit a picture with Pan & Zoom. It almost seems as if the thumbnail image is rebuilt at the end of each editing session -- and that the old thumbnail is "thumbnailized" instead of the larger (just edited) picture. But that's just a guess.

 

Now, I know this problem doesn't rank up there with endemic BSODs or random operator electrocutions, but it IS baffling, and worthy, I hope, of some effort to resolve.

 

Thank you all in advance.

 

Tom

 

PS. Although this is apparently not the forum for showing off, I'd invite you to peek at my first EMC10 effort:

.

 

Nice video. A couple of questions, are you doing a manual pan and zoom or are you using the auto motion?

What is the resolution of what you are zooming in on and how much are you zooming in? Video or still images? If you zoom in, the zoom essentially enlarges the pixels in a portion of the video/image. If the initial resolution is low or if you are doing a high zoom, you will most likely see pixelation.

 

Also, the infamous "Clear your proxy files". While your project is open in VideoWave, go to tools, options and press the clear proxy files button. You would get the same clearing if you shout down the project and reopen it.

 

Did you watch the video how to on Pan and Zoom (in EMC 9 Tips and Tricks)? I do a lot of pan nd zoom and I don't see that behavior but I don't have the same computer and video set up that you do..

[ffox1]

The dmsm file is a text file (you can open it in Notepad). It contains info about the location of the source files and about any editing you have done to them. The .dat file is a hex file. Neither contain any image files.

The proxy creates a copy of (some) of the source files used, I think just to speed up when reloading. I have noticed that in some cases the file format is changed (.png extension), so may be these are the storyline pics.

 

Do you get the same effect if the source files are at a lower resolution?

 

To answer your question first:

 

This VideoWave 10 project contains a range of source resolutions, from 10MG jpgs (3000 x 2500 pixels or so) to 640 x 480 movie files, all from a little Point & Shoot camera. The "rot" appears to progress equally for all pictures, alas.

 

Now for your fascinating revelation -- the secret key to unlocking the mysteries of the dmsm file. Who could guess (I certainly didn't!) that the Secret Decoding Ring was humble NOTEBOOK? Talk about hiding in plain sight! The first time I scanned through the dmsm file for this project, I felt like Cypher scanning the raw bones of The Matrix in dripping green letters. The screen shows some that was familiar, but the underlying structure is evidently known only to the Roxio Magisterium (to mix the movie metaphors). Actually, the dmsm file looks to be a giant script file that directs the building of the project during start-up.

 

Now to the DAT file --

 

Emboldened by myguggi’s revelation, I went looking inside this file for thumbnail images. It didn’t take long for Google to unearth a shareware utility that looks through a HEX files seeking pictures. I ran it once and Bingo! This is what it found inside the DAT file for this project. It appears that each thumbnail image, as well as each transition image, is contained in the DAT file -- some more than once. (In fact, the DAT file contains more than 200 such images for this 60-panel project.)

 

Now, it appears as if one could develop a tool to re-insert “proper” thumbnail images into the DAT file, thus curing the rot problem. I would not be surprised if someone has already done this. But this is as far as I need to go in this investigation, all I wanted to do was test the theory that the thumbnail images were “held over” from session to session, and not rebuilt afresh each time.

 

But does this disprove the “it’s a bad video card/driver” theory? Not at all; there is still something going on that causes “the rot,” and it could be anything at this point.

 

So here I am: A lot of good advice from this board, guided by the wealth of experience here, has revealed scads of useful information. But the problem persists, and I feel as if my toes are back on the starting line once more. (Do I dare look at my TOEnails?)

 

Tom

[sknis]

I just checked -- It IS set to 96DPI.

 

Here are some additional tests I've attempted, following the "bad video adapter'driver" route:

 

1. In VideoWave 10 tools/options, I set "Render Using" radio button to SOFTWARE. No difference.

 

2. Attempted to disable graphics card by "disabling display adapter" in Device Manager, then reboot. Next, started up VideoWave and got error message "There is insufficient Graphics capabillity for application . . ." Ah, well . . .

 

After re-enabling display adapter & rebooting, VideoWave starts up with the "Video card will now be profiled . . ." message (as expected). The numbers flashing during the test were in the 200 - 300 range, if that helps.

 

I'm thinking next of re-installing/repairing Videowave 10 via Add/Remove Programs. Is there a way to do this without re-instaling the whole EMC10 suite?

 

Thanks for your interest!

 

Tom

 

You are correct, sir! My transistions are rotting, too! It would seem this would be an important clue should it ever meet up with a programmer and the VideoWave source code in the same room.

 

(But if I am the only one with the problem, it hardly looks to be coding error, does it?)

 

Tom

 

Right click on one of the rotting thumbnails and look at the properties. Add the same image fresh to the storyline and look at those properties. Is there a difference? If not, perhaps it is a display issue.

[ggrussell]

Why not just delete the .dat file and let Videowave rebuild it?

[grandpabruce]

That certainly is strange. Grasping at straws here, but go to Control Panel, click on Display, then click on Settings, then Advanced. Is the DPI Setting set to 96 DPI? If it isn't, set it to 96 DPI.

[bimicher]

This

 

Thanks for your meaty questions!

 

Yes, I did study the P&Z video, but thought I'd attempt to acquire that particular skillset later; all of my work was "Manual."

 

Typically, I'd use a still JPG right out of the camera, touched up a bit with PhotoSuite 10. The example shown below is 2692 x 1841 pixels. The movies are straight out of the camera: MOV files at 640 x 480.

For most, I zoomed in enough to pick a 16:9-shaped piece out of the native 4:3 format -- plus maybe 2x or 3x additional zoom at the most.

 

"Clear your proxy files" -- Hmmm, somehow, this capability slipped by me. Thanks for the heads-up. Sadly, running the "clear proxy files" did not help my rotted thumbs . . .

 

I probably set you off in the wrong direction by fingering Pan & Zoom as the culprit; in fact, the thumbs are rotting even on panels that have never been Pan & Zoomed! Sorry.

 

Let's see if this works:

 

This is a photo of the problem I'm looking at now. It's a dmsm file open in Videowave 10. The file has been opened and closed a few dozen times over the past couple of weeks. For the photo, I've inserted a "fresh" copy of the selected panel for comparison. That's how the panel just to the left of it started out. Here is a close-up.

 

Still hopeful of success,

 

Tom

 

Dell XPS M1210

Intel Core Duo T2400 1828 MHz

2GB RAM

100GB 7200RPM HD +160GB & 250GB external USB

NEC DVD RW ND-6650A

Dell E228WFP monitor

NVIDIA GeForce Go 7400 (driver 6.14.11.5665 9/19/07)

Windows XP Professional (Media Center)

(Ver 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 Build 2600)

 

I notice that in your "closeup" the transition panel even seems to be pixelated. Is that right? That really is strange and would indicate some video card problem

[jeanrosenfeld]

There is no difference, alas. (Excellent troubleshooting suggestion, however!) Here's a partial list of the properties -- identical for both panels:

 

File Name: Fires07.JPG

File Size: 2.05 Mbytes

Image Size: 2592 x 851 pixels

dpi: 300

Bit Depth 24 bit(16.8 million colors)

Color Space: RGB

 

I've been trying to puzzle out how the program is supposed to work, maybe to aid in understanding how mine is broken. Tell me what you think of this "first principles" approach:

 

It's apparent that the files that make up a VideoWave "project" (a .dmsm file and associated .DAT file) do not hold the actual pictures and video clips that make up the project. They are far too small, for one thing.

 

And we have all seen this kind of big question mark when opening a project. It means that the image that is supposed to go in that panel has been renamed, erased or moved. After the image is restored, the display properly shows this.

 

Notice that in both of the above shots, the transitions surrounding the empty panel display "properly." How can they "know" what is in the missing panel? The obvious answer is that they don't need to know -- the thumbnail image must exist somewhere in those .dmsm or .DAT files.

 

So it seems evident that the thumbnail images themselves are not regenerated when the program loads, but are carried forward from earlier sessions. . . . and, somehow, pick up a little rot during each cycle. Cycle of what? At first, I thought it was the opening and closing of a Pan & Zoom editing session -- but the problem exists even for those panels that have never been P&Z-ed.

 

Which brings us to the proxy files, an apparently important part of the Roxio design that I am a long way from understanding. For this project, there exists a proxy file which appears to be identical to the "red sunrise" pic show above - except it is sized at 1024 x 731 pixels.

 

It is instructive to watch the proxy folder (kind of hard to find, by the way -- it's "hidden.") as you clear it (in VideoWave Tools/Options) and watch it build as you reload a project.

 

Ah, well . . . I'm still thinking about reloading VideoWave. Does that make sense to you?

 

Thanks again,

Tom

 

The dmsm file is a text file (you can open it in Notepad). It contains info about the location of the source files and about any editing you have done to them. The .dat file is a hex file. Neither contain any image files.

The proxy creates a copy of (some) of the source files used, I think just to speed up when reloading. I have noticed that in some cases the file format is changed (.png extension), so may be these are the storyline pics.

 

Do you get the same effect if the source files are at a lower resolution?

[bimicher]

The dmsm file is a text file (you can open it in Notepad). It contains info about the location of the source files and about any editing you have done to them. The .dat file is a hex file. Neither contain any image files.

The proxy creates a copy of (some) of the source files used, I think just to speed up when reloading.

 

Jean, actually I think the dat file dontains the image data for the thumbnails used in a video project. In EMC 7.5 there was only one project file and it contained the thumbnail images (in hex format)

[ffox1]

Why not just delete the .dat file and let Videowave rebuild it?

 

Well, the short answer is that it did not occur to me. Doh!

 

I tried as you suggested, and the result would not surprise you, I am sure: IT WORKED!

 

Amazing! Thank you! Thank you ALL!

 

Just to tie things up a bit, here is a picture of the "insides" of the hex .DAT file, before VideoWave rebuilt the file, and after. you can see that the panel thumbs AND transition images have both been rebuilt. (The file size reduced from 364KN to 251KB at the same time.) How kewl!

 

So here we are: The source of my rotting thumbs still remains a mystery, but you have given me an effective, easy-to-implement workaround. That is enough for me, I'm happy call that a "success" and move on!

 

Thank you ALL once more!

 

Tom

 

PS. Well, maybe there are just a couple of more issues regarding this experience:

 

1- Does your solution to this problem exist somewhere that I might have looked first, thus eliminating the need to bother you all?

 

2-I may have started this thread in the wrong place. Would it more properly be located in the "Interface Issues" section?

[ggrussell]

1- No and 2- don't worry about it. To be honest, i don't think we have ever seen this issue. I haven't been responding much but have been reading the thread. That work-around just kinda hit me as I was reading.