Dv File Defective Audio

[marcusj]

Hi everyone,

 

I have a Canon Elura 100 DV camcorder. When I import the video into DV format the file has some audio problem.

 

The DV file can play just fine in Windows Media Player, but when I play the file through VirtualDub I get an error dialog and Virtualdub aborts.

 

The error dialog is this: Audio sample xxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxx is missing or corrupted. And then the abort happens.

 

The error does not happen if I capture with Windows Movie Maker or other software, but I am getting subtle interlace errors with that software, and that decreased picture quality is just enough for me to try to find a better alternative. So I know that the audio error is speciific to Roxio. I don't know right now if it happens with Roxio 9. It definitely happens every time with Roxio 10. I really don't want the interlace errors and the audio problem makes the Dub not happen.

 

The reason I need DV instead of Mpeg is that I like to run the DV through VirtualDub's deshaker filter, which is a really powerful and impressive deshaker. VirtualDub cannot easily read Mpegs.

 

The bad audio samples seem to be occuring at the transition of scenes, where, for instance, the camera is turned off, and then turned back on for more taping.

 

Are there any suggestions?

 

Incidentally, you guys should provide a way to incorporate Virtualdub into Roxio 10. Being open source, there is nothing wrong with plugging it in. This would be unbelievably powerful.

 

Thank you.

 

John M.

 

 

[sknis]

John,

 

Let's take a different approach. You have been talking software but hardware is just as important to get good audio and video.

 

What audio card/chip do you have? Have you updated the drivers for that card/chip recently? Also try turning down the audio acceleration in dxdiag. Try to capture a short section of one with the acceleration all the way down. If that works. you can try with the acceleration turned up but not full. If you have only an audio chip (like SIS), and if you are not working on a laptop, then you might consider spending $30 or so on a audio card.

 

While you are at it, you may want to update the drivers for your video card/chip. Same suggestion as above if you have only a video chip.

 

Have you used Gspot to see if you have the needed audio codecs on the capture that gives you the error?

 

It would also help if you added your computer specs to your signature via "My Controls" at the top of this page.

[bimicher]

Yes, thanks for the suggestions. I am aware of the interlacing issue. My camcorder records in interlaced DV, lower field first. My ultimate target is plain vanilla interlaced DVD, to be played on plain vanilla NTSC.

 

If I capture interlaced DV with no further processing, and then burn my DVD with Roxio, the result looks good with no interlacing artifacts. It is interlaced nicely by the video camera and that interlacing makes it into the DVD without any ugliness. Bascially, the DVD looks as good as the original DV tape played back on the TV.

 

But I do want to use virtualdbub's deshaker. It is really powerful. Getting the video into virtualdub is no problem. Virtualdub will write out interlaced video no problem. There will be an intermediate step of deinterlacing, either within the deshaker filter or before, with an earlier deinterlace filter. Sometimes, the interlacing gets really messed up and I don't have a firm handle yet on how to control the issue during the processing.

 

That is what is nice about using a unified system like Roxio. I was hoping that since Roxio controlled the system from the capture through to the DVD burning, that the interlacing would be held to internal consistency. I cannot use end to end Roxio now because the DV audio that Roxio captures is not successfully handled by Virtualdub.

 

It seems to me that some software does not respect the interlacing as well as others. For instance, if I input the DV file with windows movie maker then ultimately the output has some ugly interlace artifacts. Most people don't notice, but to me it looks awful, and I would not commit my videos to such mangling. I want it it look as good as or better than the original DV tape.

 

I am going to try two different things next. One, I will try capturing the DV with Virtualdub itself. Second, I will try the WinDV you suggested. Meanwhile, I was hoping that somehow I could get Roxio to write better audio samples into the DV file, so that Virtualdub won't choke on them.

 

Thanks for your help. Sorry I wasn't specific enough.

 

John.

 

I have captured video from my Sony DV camcorder using EMC. Windows Movie Maker, WinDV and Ulead to avi and have never had any kind of deteriation (audio or video) of the video when imported into Videowave. If VirtualDub has problems then they should change their software. Any time you add 3rd part software to a process you are asking for trouble. Why should Roxio modify their software to support some problem with Videoshaker whatever that is.

 

BTW, this is not Roxio but a users forum

[marcusj]

Thanks sknis,

 

The WinDV software works great. The audio files seem to be defect free and readable by virtualdub. Then, when authored and burned with Roxio, the output is great. I have no interlace problems or sound problems. This may be my workaround for now.

 

If I am not mistaken, there is no audio card processing on my computer. Sound is digitized by my camcorder, then is read in as a DV type AVI file (or mpeg2, if I choose this option). Then, ultimately, the sound is written to the DVD by Roxio. It seems to me that the sound is not touched by my audio card. It may be possible I suppose.

 

In any case I have two sound processors, one is AC97 on the motherboard, and the other is an Audigy. Both work fine but I like the AC97 because the optical out is never turned off. This means I can run this sound through my home theater really easy and I don't have to change any configurations. Consequently the Audigy is present but the drivers are disabled.

 

All of my drivers are up to date. I recently upgraded from a 6600Gt to a Radeon HD2600 Pro.

 

I do have all of the codecs. I have checked with GSpot as well.

 

My CPU is an opteron 180.

 

Interestingly, I had a defective opteron. It was spontaneously overheating. I recently RMA'd it and replaced it. My processor may have been introducing subtle errors into the AV stream. Now with the new Opteron I will have to try to run the whole experiment again with the roxio capture to see if the audio stream is still defective.

 

If so, the winDV workaround works OK.

 

There are two potential problems with this workaround. First, WinDV breaks up the AVI file into a new file for each segment. This is a bit tedious putting them all back together, and adds another step to the process. The second is that it further removes the processing from an "all Roxio" stream. As someone else said, introducing third party software is asking for trouble. Now I will be using three different software packages for the job. This is OK if it works, it just gets harder to debug.

 

Thanks everyone. I will work on this problem for awhile with the WinDV workaround and see if the new processor fixes the audio stream problem. I will post here later with my results.

 

John.

 

John,

 

Let's take a different approach. You have been talking software but hardware is just as important to get good audio and video.

 

What audio card/chip do you have? Have you updated the drivers for that card/chip recently? Also try turning down the audio acceleration in dxdiag. Try to capture a short section of one with the acceleration all the way down. If that works. you can try with the acceleration turned up but not full. If you have only an audio chip (like SIS), and if you are not working on a laptop, then you might consider spending $30 or so on a audio card.

 

While you are at it, you may want to update the drivers for your video card/chip. Same suggestion as above if you have only a video chip.

 

Have you used Gspot to see if you have the needed audio codecs on the capture that gives you the error?

 

It would also help if you added your computer specs to your signature via "My Controls" at the top of this page.

 

[ggrussell]

Now I will be using three different software packages for the job.

Is that all? LOL Although I like Videowave/MyDVD, they by no means do everything I need. All software has some limitations and I have never found an 'all-in-one' solution. At one time, I owned 10 different video editors and have since narrowed that down 4 or 5. Two that I use the most.

 

Personally, I really like how WinDV saves each 'take' into a separate file with the time/date stamp as the filename. Very easy to sort and I don't have to do any 'scene detect' in EMC Media Manager. Smaller files are also much faster and easier to edit (IMHO).

[ggrussell]

Your post is a bit vague, but I am going to assume that you are using EMC to capture and you are having problems with those files. Try capturing with Windows Movie Maker and then output to DV AVI or use WinDV (shareware) to capture. See if you have the same problem. Could be a hardware issue.

[marcusj]

Sorry about the vagueness. The audio capturing problem is specific to Roxio. I don't get the audio problem with Windows Movie Maker capturing to DV, but I do get the interlacing defects, which show up as ugly blurs on motion. The blurs are not present on the orginal tape, or on any capture done with Roxio import function. So I am trying to get the best of both worlds somehow. I will definitely try to capture with the software you mention. That might be just the ticket.

 

As far as hardware, it is real simple. It is Canon Elura 100, then Firewire, then captured with whatever software I use.

 

I suppose the camera could be making defective DV at the scene transitions. I hope not, it is otherwise a reasonably good camera. The video it makes is great.

 

Thank you.

 

John.

[ggrussell]

You will always get the interlace 'jaggies' when playing back on a non-interlaced device like your monitor. 'Some' playback software will compensate for this and makes it less noticeable. The jaggies is a hardware issue really - the difference between older CRT technology which most standard definition camcorders still use. Some of the newer HiDef camcorders have progressive mode recording. Newer monitors and most HDTVs use progressive display technology which makes the interlacing more prominent.

 

The question you need to ask yourself is HOW will the final output be viewed? Interlaced or not? MyDVD has the option to deinterlace the output before burning to disc. Some people have posted this helps when viewed on HDTVs. You also need to realize that HOW you connect the DVD player to the HDTV also makes a difference. If you use composite, the DVD player will ALWAYS output interlaced even if the DVD was burned as progressive. To get progressive output, you need to connect the DVD player via component (RGB cables) or HDMI if you have a new player that up-converts.

[marcusj]

Thanks for the input. I was really hoping someone could shed a little light on the subject of bad audio samples, or maybe that someone else has faced this same problem in the past. Since this problem only arose on Roxio's captured files, I thought that I would start here.

 

You are fair to ask if the bug belongs in virtualdub. I don't have the answer to that.

 

It would be presumptuous of me to ask Roxio to modify anything for the hundred bucks or so I spent on the software. I will be able to workaround the problem anyway. I was just looking to see if anyone has faced this before. And perhaps, if I solve the problem, help develop the database of solutions that this board represents.

 

I can now see that my imprecise use of words has caused an unintended misinterpretation.

 

When I typed "get Roxio to write better audio samples" I was not referring to getting Roxio incorporated to rewrite their software. I was referring to my actions or selections in getting the software I already own to write a better audio file on my computers hard disk. I was hoping there was something I could do to make it work better.

 

It appears that my imprecise use of words has the possibility of offending someone. Sorry for that.

 

I agree that mucking up the process with third party software is asking for trouble. That is indeed why I am trying to get as much of the process within Roxio as possible.

 

But the power of VirtualDub is hard to imagine if you have not used it. Because it is so powerful it is worth it to debug the process. It is even worth it to ask Roxio's engineers to take a look at it, as it is entirely legal and withing licensing rules to incorporate it into Roxio, at least as an unsupported addition. But it is also possible to add the code within Roxio and just put a GPL portion into Roxio's license. Many corporations, including IBM for instance, use open source software.

 

Virtualdub uses the model of "filters" to process video files. The filters come in unimaginable variants. Virtualdub reads a video file, applies the filter, and writes it out. My favorite is the deshaker filter. It removes 99 percent of even wild vigorous shakes. It can also brighten, darken, blur, sharpen, logo, delogo, denoise (with a million adjustable parameters in the time and space domain), and a zillion other things.

 

John.

 

 

[marcusj]

Yes, thanks for the suggestions. I am aware of the interlacing issue. My camcorder records in interlaced DV, lower field first. My ultimate target is plain vanilla interlaced DVD, to be played on plain vanilla NTSC.

 

If I capture interlaced DV with no further processing, and then burn my DVD with Roxio, the result looks good with no interlacing artifacts. It is interlaced nicely by the video camera and that interlacing makes it into the DVD without any ugliness. Bascially, the DVD looks as good as the original DV tape played back on the TV.

 

But I do want to use virtualdbub's deshaker. It is really powerful. Getting the video into virtualdub is no problem. Virtualdub will write out interlaced video no problem. There will be an intermediate step of deinterlacing, either within the deshaker filter or before, with an earlier deinterlace filter. Sometimes, the interlacing gets really messed up and I don't have a firm handle yet on how to control the issue during the processing.

 

That is what is nice about using a unified system like Roxio. I was hoping that since Roxio controlled the system from the capture through to the DVD burning, that the interlacing would be held to internal consistency. I cannot use end to end Roxio now because the DV audio that Roxio captures is not successfully handled by Virtualdub.

 

It seems to me that some software does not respect the interlacing as well as others. For instance, if I input the DV file with windows movie maker then ultimately the output has some ugly interlace artifacts. Most people don't notice, but to me it looks awful, and I would not commit my videos to such mangling. I want it it look as good as or better than the original DV tape.

 

I am going to try two different things next. One, I will try capturing the DV with Virtualdub itself. Second, I will try the WinDV you suggested. Meanwhile, I was hoping that somehow I could get Roxio to write better audio samples into the DV file, so that Virtualdub won't choke on them.

 

Thanks for your help. Sorry I wasn't specific enough.

 

John.