Dvd Created With Toast Skip, While Those Created In Other App Don't

[chrjohns]

I have a frustrating problem. Using Toast 7 (full version) or Toast 8 (Basic-latest version is 8.0.2), DVDs have this annoying frame skip every few seconds. I have tried various media. DVD-R DVD+R DL and DVD-RW. All exhibit this problem. Brands have been Memorex and Maxell. I have tried burning the MPEG-2 files from an EyeTV 3 HD recording and .avis from the internets. Strange thing is that when I tried a certain other application, the DVD created with it did not exhibit the frame dropping. The downside to using this other application is that there is no way to add menus, which is a bummer if you want to make a DVD with multiple episodes of a TV show.

 

Roxio's official response to another poster with a similar problem is this:

 

"Ok, this is getting old. We have established that the problem is related to playback in some players for sure.

Yes, we know there are differences in the encoders from older versions of Toast to the current, however we are still within specifications and as such, that makes this not a Toast problem. We are still trying to work around it however but I am closing this thread down as the discussion is lingering on for months on end.

If you want us to look at your files, send me a private message and we can work from there on getting ahold of them and testing them."

 

found here:

 

http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?...60&start=60

 

Should I forsake Toast and its easy interface with eyetv and nice menu creation utilities?

 

Is there some setting within Toast that might solve my problem?

 

Is there a simple way to create menus with some alternative application?

 

Could I encode with with this other application and use Toast to create a DVD menu for a DVD with multiple episodes?

 

Was this problem fixed in 8.0.3? Some posts say yes, others say no.

 

There is not an update for Toast 8 Basic to 8.0.3, it is still at 8.0.2. I do not want to pay for an upgrade to the full version of Toast 8 unless I know it is fixed.

[gaper1]

create a disc image with Toast on your Mac. mount it then play it with DVD player. does it skip?

[gaper1]

Tried this - still skips. I would like to upgrade to Popcorn 3 or the full version of Toast 8, but i feel I would be wasting my money unless this issue is fixed.

 

 

don't think it's an issue for the software though. Does that DVD created skips on other DVD players as well?

[tsantee]

don't think it's an issue for the software though. Does that DVD created skips on other DVD players as well?

That would be good to know.

 

It's curious that when Toast authors and burns the DVD the picture stutters on this upconverting DVD player (but not in the Mac) but the same MPEG source works when the DVD is authored and burned with another application. I believe that this stuttering happens when DVD players choke when demuxing the audio stream during play back. The audio sounds fine and the video looks bad so the perception is that the video is the problem. But it generally is the audio. If the Toast DVD has PCM audio then I expect that is the problem and switching to AC-3 is the fix. But the problem may be in how Toast multiplexes the audio and video in creating the VOBs during the authoring stage.

 

My sense is that chrjohns has a DVD player that doesn't get along with Toast-created video DVDs and I don't know why.

[chrjohns]

I just completed a test using a 1920x1080 HD MPEG 2 source video captured directly from my DVR. I've loaned my EyeTV Hybrid to my daughter so can't do a test with an OTA HD capture. The test was using my MacBook Pro and 10.5.2, Toast 8.0.3 and the internal Superdrive. I burned to a store-brand DVD-RW disc. When played on my Pioneer DVD player the picture looked perfect (except for some shimmering around high-contrast edges that is a problem with 480i video).

 

You might try checking Half-Pel in the Custom Encoder settings window to see if that helps.

 

Toast doesn't use QuickTime for MPEG 2 encoding.

 

 

Tried the Half-Pel. No success. Tried exporting to Toast. No success. I guess that Toast is just not able to burn a DVD that is playable on my DVD player. I did just finish burning a DVD of a 2 hour movie using Visual Hub that plays perfectly on my player. So I will just have to give up on Toast.

 

However, I did see that there is a very reasonable upgrade fee for Popcorn 3 (for owners of Toast) that has something called VIDEO_TS Compilation. I am wondering if that would allow me to encode episodes to separate VIDEO_TS folders using Visual Hub and then allow me to put them together with a DVD menu using Popcorn 3. I cant tell from the Roxio web site whether Popcorn will allow the creation of a DVD Menu with the VIDEO_TS Compilation feature. Anyone know?

[John at Roxio]

No skipping when played from the hard drive as a disc image - but I understand there is a difference between how a computer plays a DVD and how an actual DVD player does.

 

Why would it play fine when created by visual hub but not toast?

 

This is the litmus test. If the disc image works fine, then the problem is not with the encoding. The problem is recording data to the disc since the data is the exact same. Try another brand of media or try another recorder. This will narrow down where the problem lies.

[tsantee]

Tried the Half-Pel. No success. Tried exporting to Toast. No success. I guess that Toast is just not able to burn a DVD that is playable on my DVD player. I did just finish burning a DVD of a 2 hour movie using Visual Hub that plays perfectly on my player. So I will just have to give up on Toast.

 

However, I did see that there is a very reasonable upgrade fee for Popcorn 3 (for owners of Toast) that has something called VIDEO_TS Compilation. I am wondering if that would allow me to encode episodes to separate VIDEO_TS folders using Visual Hub and then allow me to put them together with a DVD menu using Popcorn 3. I cant tell from the Roxio web site whether Popcorn will allow the creation of a DVD Menu with the VIDEO_TS Compilation feature. Anyone know?

The VIDEO_TS compilation in Popcorn will not give you a menu. What you can do in Toast is place the VIDEO_TS folder on the desktop (or in the Movies folder). Choose DVD video as the format in the Toast Video window. Choose DVD with the top button of the Toast Media Browser. The VIDEO_TS folder's name will appear in the browser window. Double-click on that name to see the individual titles that are in the VIDEO_TS folder. Drag what you want to the Toast window. Toast extracts those MPEG files. You can do this with multiple VIDEO_TS folders. When you have all the titles you want for your new DVD set up the menu the way you want it to look and arrange the titles in the order you want them to appear. Be sure to check Never Re-encode in the Toast custom encoder settings window.

 

Now burn a DVD and you'll have one with the Toast menu but with the MPEG 2 encoding from the other application. Toast does need to demux and remux the audio with the video but does not do any encoding. If the resulting DVD has the skips then we'll know that it is the multiplexing and not the encoding that's causing the issue with your DVD player.

 

By the way, what are the settings on your DVD player. Do you have it set for progressive or standard playback. Is it doing upconverting to a HDTV or is it connected via S-video, component or composite video?

[chrjohns]

Now burn a DVD and you'll have one with the Toast menu but with the MPEG 2 encoding from the other application. Toast does need to demux and remux the audio with the video but does not do any encoding. If the resulting DVD has the skips then we'll know that it is the multiplexing and not the encoding that's causing the issue with your DVD player.

 

Tried this - still skips. I would like to upgrade to Popcorn 3 or the full version of Toast 8, but i feel I would be wasting my money unless this issue is fixed.

[chrjohns]

The VIDEO_TS compilation in Popcorn will not give you a menu. What you can do in Toast is place the VIDEO_TS folder on the desktop (or in the Movies folder). Choose DVD video as the format in the Toast Video window. Choose DVD with the top button of the Toast Media Browser. The VIDEO_TS folder's name will appear in the browser window. Double-click on that name to see the individual titles that are in the VIDEO_TS folder. Drag what you want to the Toast window. Toast extracts those MPEG files. You can do this with multiple VIDEO_TS folders. When you have all the titles you want for your new DVD set up the menu the way you want it to look and arrange the titles in the order you want them to appear. Be sure to check Never Re-encode in the Toast custom encoder settings window.

 

Now burn a DVD and you'll have one with the Toast menu but with the MPEG 2 encoding from the other application. Toast does need to demux and remux the audio with the video but does not do any encoding. If the resulting DVD has the skips then we'll know that it is the multiplexing and not the encoding that's causing the issue with your DVD player.

 

By the way, what are the settings on your DVD player. Do you have it set for progressive or standard playback. Is it doing upconverting to a HDTV or is it connected via S-video, component or composite video?

 

The DVD player is the built in DVD player for my Toshiba HDTV, so it is upconverting to the HDTV. I will give the other things a try later with Toast 7 or 8 (basic) if those options are available.

[chrjohns]

This is the litmus test. If the disc image works fine, then the problem is not with the encoding. The problem is recording data to the disc since the data is the exact same. Try another brand of media or try another recorder. This will narrow down where the problem lies.

 

I have used Maxell, Memorex and Sony. I am using my iMac Intel Superdrive. I don't think it is the media or the recorder.

[chrjohns]

create a disc image with Toast on your Mac. mount it then play it with DVD player. does it skip?

 

 

No skipping when played from the hard drive as a disc image - but I understand there is a difference between how a computer plays a DVD and how an actual DVD player does.

 

Why would it play fine when created by visual hub but not toast?

[gesplus]

How about instead of the magic button, export from EyeTV "for Toast" first, then drop the file on Toast, Video/DVD-Video section.

[gaper1]

don't think it's an issue for the software though. Does that DVD created skips on other DVD players as well?

 

so did you try anything about this?

[chrjohns]

so did you try anything about this?

 

I will try this evening.

[tsantee]

I am on 10.5.2 (intel iMac). The MPEG2 stream was saved by EyeTV directly from the OTA HD Broadcast and transferred to Toast via the magic Toast button within EyeTV. I believe the file is already multiplexed. Toast would then have to re-encode it for DVD, I think. The AVIs are Gereric MPEG-4 files according to QT.

 

I am playing these on a Toshiba flat panel TV with internal DVD player. The player may have something to do with it, but cant be the sole cause - I did try encoding with another app, and it worked perfectly on this DVD player.

 

I have seen in other forums that MPEG2enc outputs more "compatible" encodes, and maybe the fact that Toast relies on QT could be the culprit?

I just completed a test using a 1920x1080 HD MPEG 2 source video captured directly from my DVR. I've loaned my EyeTV Hybrid to my daughter so can't do a test with an OTA HD capture. The test was using my MacBook Pro and 10.5.2, Toast 8.0.3 and the internal Superdrive. I burned to a store-brand DVD-RW disc. When played on my Pioneer DVD player the picture looked perfect (except for some shimmering around high-contrast edges that is a problem with 480i video).

 

You might try checking Half-Pel in the Custom Encoder settings window to see if that helps.

 

Toast doesn't use QuickTime for MPEG 2 encoding.

[chrjohns]

so did you try anything about this?

 

The DVDs created by Toast play fine on my Sony and other Toshiba DVD TV combo. Both standard definition players. However, Toast is having a problem writing a DVD that can play on my HDTV DVD combo player, while Visual Hub writes DVDs that play fine on all three players.

 

 

 

 

[tsantee]

Thanks for checking that out and posting your findings.

[tsantee]

Which version of OS X are you using? Is this on an Intel or PowerPC Mac? Did EyeTV do the MPEG 2 encoding or was it captured from a digital source? If it was from a digital source was it HD or SD? I'm presuming the AVIs were not HD and not in MPEG 2 format and Toast did the MPEG 2 encoding of those. With the EyeTV source did Toast do the MPEG 2 encoding or did it just multiplex the video? If I know about the kind of video you are using for the source and what kind of Mac & OS you are using, I may be able to check if I get the same result.

 

This is the first I've heard about Toast 8 Basic. What is it lacking compared to the full version? Did you install the Toast 7.1.3 update if you are running Leopard?

[theoldarchiver]

This is the first I've heard about Toast 8 Basic.

It seems to be a stripped down version of Toast that ships with Elgato EyeTV 250 Plus.

[chrjohns]

Which version of OS X are you using? Is this on an Intel or PowerPC Mac? Did EyeTV do the MPEG 2 encoding or was it captured from a digital source? If it was from a digital source was it HD or SD? I'm presuming the AVIs were not HD and not in MPEG 2 format and Toast did the MPEG 2 encoding of those. With the EyeTV source did Toast do the MPEG 2 encoding or did it just multiplex the video? If I know about the kind of video you are using for the source and what kind of Mac & OS you are using, I may be able to check if I get the same result.

 

This is the first I've heard about Toast 8 Basic. What is it lacking compared to the full version? Did you install the Toast 7.1.3 update if you are running Leopard?

 

I am on 10.5.2 (intel iMac). The MPEG2 stream was saved by EyeTV directly from the OTA HD Broadcast and transferred to Toast via the magic Toast button within EyeTV. I believe the file is already multiplexed. Toast would then have to re-encode it for DVD, I think. The AVIs are Gereric MPEG-4 files according to QT.

 

I am playing these on a Toshiba flat panel TV with internal DVD player. The player may have something to do with it, but cant be the sole cause - I did try encoding with another app, and it worked perfectly on this DVD player.

 

I have seen in other forums that MPEG2enc outputs more "compatible" encodes, and maybe the fact that Toast relies on QT could be the culprit?