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Crossfades Don't Appear To Be Working


zlh67

Question

I'm hoping this is just user error and Roxio didn't jack up this product as badly as I think they did, but I can't figure this out: I've had Rev A of Easy CD and DVD Burning (the one not compatable with Vista) forever and LOVED using it on my XP machine, but alas, my old system died and I now have a new one with Vista, so I went out and bought the Rev B version, ie, the Vista compatable version of this product.

 

After an error message during installation stating the DLA driver had been disabled because it caused instability to my new Dell pc, I read that uninstalling Drag-to-disc was the solution to any problems that might cause, so I did (no biggie since i don't use that app anyway).

 

Now I'm trying to burn an audio cd using crossfades though and it either flat out doesn't work, or I am seriously missing something.

 

1. I opened Music Disc Creator and pulled in 3 tracks (wav files), where I wanted a 5 second crossover between the end of track 2 and the start of track 3 (no fade, but just the tracks to overlap so that track 3 starts five seconds before track 2 has fully ended).

 

2. So I select track 3, and hit the icon for crossfade instead of gap and select 5.0 as my time for overlap. Since i don't want any fades, I don't select either of the fade in or fade out icon options.

 

3. I then highlight track 3 and select "Play Transition", but instead of hearing the ending of track 2 and then track 3 starting 5 seconds before that one ends, all I hear is the *start* of track 3, and..... it FADES in. I have double and triple checked my settings and tried this using other tracks to and always get the same thing. :huh:

 

Does anyone who's been using this longer than me know why this might be, or is this just a seriously flawed program?

 

If this program doesn't work any better than this, I feel like I've thrown my money away, and of course I can't return this "opened" software. I like the new interface, and the ability to edit on the fly is a definite improvement, but crossfades don't work, or at least don't appear to be for me, and even if they do, the level of control that I see offered seems reduced. Seems I can only specify crossfade and overlap times in tenths of seconds, not hundredths like before with Creator Classic, and regardless of whether you're using crossfading or not, the options for fading in or out an individual track seems limited to the preselected options in the icon choices instead of being able to specify, "Fade this track out over 8 seconds."

 

I can't help but ask: is anyone at Roxio really thinking this is an overall improvement over the Creator Classic offered in the previous version of this product? I'm not seeing it, so am really missing my Creator Classic!

 

 

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Thanks, Jim, but I'm 99.9% certain that's not it. The track I'm crossfading from does have a natural fade in the original wav file, but there's no true silence on the end of it, certainly not 5 seconds worth. And I have tried it with other songs/settings too and it's the same thing: I hit the overlap icon and select 5, 10, however many seconds (again, I've tried several settings), then I highlight the track I'm trying to crossfade to and select 'Play Transition', but it starts playing at the 2nd track right off (not the end of the first, so I don't actually get to hear the transition I'm trying to crossfade) and when it plays the 2nd song, it fades in even though I haven't selected any fade in or fade out icon options (just the overlap one). I've tried selecting the fade in and out options just to see if that would do anything different, but it appears not to.

 

Now I should say I haven't actually burned a disc with this program yet, so part of me is thinking if I do, maybe the settings I've entered will be reflected in the burn, but it seems absolutely ludicrous that you can't preview the transition. That's like being forced to paint in the dark, then having to take your painting out in the light to see if it's what you'd intended, and if it's not, having to start over. :blink:

 

 

Have a look at post's 5&6 in this thread http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?...p;hl=crossfades

 

it may help you.

 

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As I said, I have the Red Box version and I have tried it with that as well as in V8 & V10. they work the same way and they all work!

 

Now that is testing with 3 separate versions on 3 separate PCs. That is pretty conclusive…

 

Only thing I cannot check for is Vista… And we have to keep in mind that you have chosen to run a version of software that is not certified to run on Vista.

 

First try setting for 15 seconds and you should be able to hear it in the Play Transition.

 

Then right click the song before the overlap and choose Edit Audio. Zoom in on the right end of the sound track. Note where the waveform ends vs the listed Duration of the song. Any difference between the two is Silence.

 

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"Works with Windows Vista" and "Certified for Windows Vista" are not the same.

 

eg

 

EMC 10 is "Certified for Windows Vista"

Yes, you're right. :)

 

The Red Box is "Compatible with" Vista, according to the notice on the front of the box.

 

 

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Thanks, Jim. I did mention in my post above that increasing the overlap time as you'd previously suggested did the trick, which is the other way of dealing with that extended time of silence (or near silence) that is often at the end of songs. My first track did indeed have a longer tail of silence on it than I thought, so crossfading for 5 seconds was giving me nothing. Chopping it off does away with that problem, but making the overlap time longer (say 10 seconds) will make a song with 5 seconds of silence at the end play like it has a 5-second overlap too, and that's what I've done (in other words, you were right and the extended silence was why I wasn't hearing any crossfade when I did a preview).

 

So as mentioned, that part of the mystery is indeed solved and I'm able to preview transitions correctly.

 

What's still not working though and I don't think ever will be is that when I choose overlap as an option, be it 2 seconds, 10 seconds or 20, the program now automatically applies a fade in to the second track whether I select the fade-in icon or not. In reading the rest of the post you'd previously pointed me to, I found that some time after EMC 7 or so, all of Roxio's burning programs, including Easy CD and DVD Burning in the red box for Vista (Rev B), have this "feature". My orginal version for XP did not, which is why it worked to my satisfaction.

 

For reference, here's the thread you'd sent me:

 

Link

 

Sounds like Roxio's postion was that if they allow you to overlap two songs while at full volume, the chance for cracks or pops caused by the sound level being so high as to induce clipping is great enough that they'd just rather auto-induce the fade-in during overlaps in order to decrease the likelihood that you accidentlally give youself a clipping problem. These forced fade-in's are what I'm seeing, and that's what this other poster in the thread above reports experiencing also in both EMC9 & 10.

 

Which is lame because using the previous version of Easy CD&DVD Burning, I've done literally thousands of track overlaps without any actual fading (I rarely burn without doing this between each track), and I have not had one single crack or pop on any of my cd's. Ever! So it seems like Roxio outsmarted themselves on this one and took away some great functionality to help reduce the likelihood of a problem that.... wasn't really a problem! And that's really disappointing because now I have to look elsewhere to a company that makes burning software with FULL crossfading functionality. :(

 

(edited to make Link hot - jim)

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Which is lame because using the previous version of Easy CD&DVD Burning, I've done literally thousands of track overlaps without any actual fading (I rarely burn without doing this between each track), and I have not had one single crack or pop on any of my cd's. Ever! So it seems like Roxio outsmarted themselves on this one and took away some great functionality to help reduce the likelihood of a problem that.... wasn't really a problem! And that's really disappointing because now I have to look elsewhere to a company that makes burning software with FULL crossfading functionality. :(

Indeed, this has been an issue for several years now. It's been mentioned, and a solution requested, but we've not seen any sign of one forthcoming. I understand the logic, but that doesn't mean it's the correct decision. And technically, what you want isn't "crossfading" (which implies the fade in/out) but overlapping at full volume.

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This of it like this Jim: when you listen to the radio, they want zero "dead" time (ie, silence). So as one song is ending, when it starts to fade, the next one starts right away, right? That's how I like to listen to the cd's I burn.

 

That's what the previous version of ECD&DVD did so incredibly easy, and that's the effect I'm after (and that's what the current version of ECD&DVD Burning no longer does.....).

 

As pointed out above by d_dewey, it's not even really a true crossfade, but more the ability just to take the 2nd track, and scoot it back so it starts at full volume before track 1 is truly done. No fading required, just have the 2nd track start as the first is naturally fading out.

 

I know you said you're not much into audio, but in case you're curious, the problem with how the current suite works is that if you try to do an overlap with no fades, Roxio assumes you're about to give yourself a clipping problem (where two songs at max volume together could potentitally cause an issue), so it now forces your 2nd song to be faded in, which is lame. As previously stated, I've done literally THOUSANDS of overlaps without fade-ins while burning cd's and have never experienced a single problem!

 

This functionality seems so basic -- as said, it's not even a "crossfade," just a direct overlap -- that I can't belive Roxio ditched it, and I have a hard time believing I'll need to shell out $200-300 or venture into pro level burning software to get it back.

 

Thanks for digging into this with me though! At least I now know why it's not fuctioning as I'd expected (poor decision making at Roxio) and what I need to do to get what I'm after (look elsewhere!).

 

 

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I know you said you're not much into audio, but in case you're curious, the problem with how the current suite works is that if you try to do an overlap with no fades, Roxio assumes you're about to give yourself a clipping problem (where two songs at max volume together could potentitally cause an issue), so it now forces your 2nd song to be faded in, which is lame. As previously stated, I've done literally THOUSANDS of overlaps without fade-ins while burning cd's and have never experienced a single problem!

Well... not an audible problem. :mellow: Not all clipping is noticeably audible, and if you're not examining the waveform of each overlap... well, you get the point. And I agree that the ability to overlap should be brought back, even if a warning message pops up saying that a clipping condition has been detected, or may occur, and allowing you to continue anyway.

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zlh67: You have pushed me into corners of this Suite that I normally never go… I am just not that interested in Audio.

 

Being 'new' at that I fail to see any problem with the way it works, because I have nothing to compare it to! I did see that I would have liked to have had more controls over the way the overlap works.

 

Not uncommon for a Suite to have less capacity within a specific program that a purpose written stand alone program will have. Generally you will pay more for one standalone than you pay for a Suite.

 

I am sure Sony's Sound Forge 9 will do everything in audio you will ever need! It only costs $399.96…

 

Likewise I am sure you can find something that will suite your needs without having to shell out more than 10 times what the Red Box cost!

 

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Yeah, I hear ya, but I guess when dealing with audio, if a "problem" isn't audible, i don't really consider it a problem.... ;)

 

Roxio has really irked me on this one. Not just because they've watered down their software, but becaue the packaging and everything looks completely identifical to what I had before, yet the software is COMPLETELY different. At the very least, there should be some kind of blurb indicating it's "New and improved for Vista!" (although "improved" would be a stretch, but you know how marketing goes; at least that would let you know it's not the exact same program as before).

 

I feel really taken by Roxio and of course the software's open, so Best Buy won't take it back.

 

Until Roxio fixes this and it's confirmed by users on this forum, I'll be going elsewhere.

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Well, thanks to everybody for the posts/suggestions. Looks like Jim may have been right on one thing: I upped the crossover time and it will at least play me a transition that's crossfaded. That's the good news. The bad news is, the crossfades still aren't functioning properly. At least I don't think they are, but see what you think:

 

There are 2 choices for fade and 1 for transition, right? Fade in, fade out and then the option to choose either gap or crossfade between tracks. I select no fade in or out on both tracks and then choose overlap for a transition (because I don't want fades, I just want an overlap so that the start of track 2 to begins playing 10 seconds before track #1 officially ends, like how they play music on the radio). Well, when I do that and check the preview it's still fading out the previous track and fading in the next one. In fact, it's taking about 10 seconds for track 2 to get to full volume, so it sure seems to me like this is reading the overlap time I specify and applying fades, even though both icons for both tracks are set to "no fade".

 

The only thing I can think is that the crossfade function is overriding the individual settings of the other icons, but that doesn't seem so either: if I select overlap for 10 seconds and "fast fade in", it does indeed fade the next track in much faster than 10 seconds, which makes me think those icons do work with the overlap function selected, just not if you select "no fade". Which is a loss in funtionality from the previous XP version of this product where you could tell it "overlap these tracks" for 7.36 seconds and it could do it with no fades, with fading out the previous track only, fading in the next track only, or having both a fade out and a fade in. And again, time increments were hundredths of seconds, allowing much greater flexibility, and now it's tenths, so at least in terms of crossfading, it sure seems to me like Roxio has taken a giant step backwards. Maybe it's not a big deal to most others and they're ok with stripping out these features, but it was about the only thing I cared about in that suite, so they've pretty much lost me as a customer.

 

I used to think Roxio was the greatest and always told anyone who asked about burning software that very thing, but after getting Vista and experimenting with the Vista version of this product and Record Now Music Lab 9 as well, I think they just stumbled on a home run with the XP version of Easy CD & DVD Burning, and are now quite busy fixing it when it wasn't broken. :angry2: No way am I laying out $80-100 for EMC because I have zero faith that it would have the functionality I need back (or that it would actually work even if it did).

 

And I hope it's not Roxio's position that this red-box product is a watered down product and only EMC gives full functionality or that running this on Vista is the problem: the box says Vista compatable so it should be.... Vista Compatable! In the previous version of ECD&DVD Burning, I had a $30 program that wasn't fancy, but very flexible and easy to use. I didn't need everything else in EMC then and I don't need it now, so if they offer lower priced products, they should do what they promise and as versions get updated, should add functionality, not strip it out. Now they've "upgraded" it by making it Vista compatable, and even though the product name hasn't changed and the packaging hasn't changed, this is a VERY different piece of software. TOTALLY different!! Different enough that I'm feelin' like Roxio owes me $30 and I'm going to begin checking our Nero software.

 

 

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You type a lot of text but it is very hard to get you to try suggestions and report back…

 

I wanted you to examine your waveform with the Edit Audio option.

 

In the picture below you can see that the song has a 5:26 duration.

 

But looking at the waveform, you can see the music "ends" at 5:20, so there is actually 6 seconds of silence!

 

But as far a computer is concerned, that is "song" and that is where the 5 seconds of overlap is taking place!!!

 

Since song 1 is silent, song 2 'appears' to start but in reality it is overlapping song 1.

 

In the Quick Sound Editor window, I can Set End to 5:20 and guess what? The 5 second overlap works just as you think it should!

 

I honestly do not believe that there is anything wrong with the software but it is a matter of you learning how to use it.

 

But if you want to plunk down big bucks on Nero, go for it.

 

 

post-39730-1206183881.jpg

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Thanks for the info. I guess at this point though, I'm just more trying to figure out:

 

1) why the crossfade functionality isn't working properly, and

2) if Roxio has a product that's Vista compatable and does with crossfades more what the Creator Classic piece of the Rev A version of this product did; it was so flexible and easy to use! Nothing fancy, or at least I didn't think it was, but I have Nero8 and a few other products for burning cd's and none of them allow the easy flexibility in crossfading that Creator Classic did as featured in my XP version of Easy CD and DVD Burning.

 

As for Roxio's marketing, the Rev B version goes by the same title (Easy CD and DVD Burning) and is in the same packaging, so the only difference I could see on the box was that it's now Vista compatable. With everything on the box being the same, I'm not sure how anyone would expect the product to be so completely different; I know I didn't. But I don't really care so long as the newer version does what the old one does. Sadly though, it doesn't, or at least SEEMS not to as I can't get the crossfades to work properly at all (and I'm not exactly a novice when it comes to crossfading as I use it a LOT).

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I do not think that applies to zlh67's post. He is using Music Disc Creator which is provided in the Red Box but it is not working as he feels it should…

 

I have tried it on the Red Box version as well as my EMC 10 Suite version of Music Disc Creator and it does work but is subtle…

 

I think what the OP does not realize is that it does not mute silence if that is already on the track! So by setting to 5 seconds, you are not going to hear anything. Try setting it for 15 seconds you should be able to hear it.

 

You would actually have to edit the track to remove the silence and be able to use shorter settings.

 

I am doing a lot of guessing here as I doubt I have burned more than 10 Audio CD's in my life!

 

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Thanks, Jim, but I'm 99.9% certain that's not it. The track I'm crossfading from does have a natural fade in the original wav file, but there's no true silence on the end of it, certainly not 5 seconds worth. And I have tried it with other songs/settings too and it's the same thing: I hit the overlap icon and select 5, 10, however many seconds (again, I've tried several settings), then I highlight the track I'm trying to crossfade to and select 'Play Transition', but it starts playing at the 2nd track right off (not the end of the first, so I don't actually get to hear the transition I'm trying to crossfade) and when it plays the 2nd song, it fades in even though I haven't selected any fade in or fade out icon options (just the overlap one). I've tried selecting the fade in and out options just to see if that would do anything different, but it appears not to.

 

Now I should say I haven't actually burned a disc with this program yet, so part of me is thinking if I do, maybe the settings I've entered will be reflected in the burn, but it seems absolutely ludicrous that you can't preview the transition. That's like being forced to paint in the dark, then having to take your painting out in the light to see if it's what you'd intended, and if it's not, having to start over. :blink:

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Oh, it's definitely "modified". No idea WHY, but it is. The functionality is reduced and what functionality remains appears not to work well AT ALL. If you want to fade in or out an individual track, it works fine, but the crossfade option is majorly disappointing. I'll keep playing with it to see if I'm just missing something, but as said, I'm pretty well versed in using crossfades and I haven't figured this out after several hours, so it either just doesn't work right or is waaay harder than it needs to be. A definite step back from the previous version, but if anyone has any tips, I'm all ears! Till then, I'm seriously contemplating just keeping my previous XP box exclusively for cd projects when I need some fancy crossfading. :(

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