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General Copyright Question....


Syrallas

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Well now you're going into a totally different area. Purchased or rented DVD's is not the same "set of rules" as recording a tv broadcast to watch it later. Copy protected DVD's is not such a "grey" area.

 

 

Absolutely correct. But the point I was trying to make (perhaps inartfully) is that the law applicable to all copyrighted works -- whether you get them through cable or on a DVD -- makes no distinction as to whether or not you just made the copies for yourself or were foolish enough to try to make a buck off of someone else's copyrighted material. I only referred to the DVD's FBI warning because I'm sure we are all familiar with that, and its a warning that I believe applies equally to all copyrighted materials -- although I'm not a copyright lawyer.

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BTW:

 

User Guide for EMC 10, p. viii

"Disclaimer

This product may allow you to reproduce materials in which you own the copyright or have

obtained permission to copy from the copyright owner. Unless you own the copyright or have

permission to copy such materials from the copyright owner, you may be violating copyright law

and be subject to the payment of damages and other remedies. If you are uncertain of your rights,

you should contact your legal advisor."

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DIGITAL MILLENNIUM COPYRIGHT ACT

 

The 100 documents listed here (10.1MB) and this index is available Zipped: http://cryptome.org/dmca/dmca.zip (2.9MB)

 

This presents Congressional bills, reports, amendments and floor comments on the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) (introduced as H.R. 2281, WIPO Copyright Treaties Implementation Act). A following section presents similar material on subsequent copyright legislation related to the DMCA.

 

Documents are from the GPO Web site: http://www.access.gpo.gov/su_docs/aces/aaces002.html

 

cd

 

 

 

 

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I guess that my question would be what is the difference between this and TiVo?Both record the show for viewing at a later time.

I think if it's for personal use and it's not copy protected and you don't distribute copies then it would be ok.There are provisions in the laws regarding "personal use".

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DIGITAL MILLENNIUM COPYRIGHT ACT

 

The 100 documents listed here (10.1MB) and this index is available Zipped: http://cryptome.org/dmca/dmca.zip (2.9MB)

 

This presents Congressional bills, reports, amendments and floor comments on the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) (introduced as H.R. 2281, WIPO Copyright Treaties Implementation Act). A following section presents similar material on subsequent copyright legislation related to the DMCA.

 

Documents are from the GPO Web site: http://www.access.gpo.gov/su_docs/aces/aaces002.html

 

cd

 

Personally, I would only use those pages to wipe my self and I don't mean my nose!

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I think that if your suspicions are correct -- and I believe they are -- that there is something wrong. I don't want my kids to think that I'm doing something illegal, and if a program is not even being sold in, say, iPod format, what are you supposed to do? :o

I'd like to know why iPod brags so much about the fact that you can 'transfer' your shows to iPod. They obviously think it's ok to do so! I'm pretty fed up with all the BS rules and regs about what I can and can't do with what I pay for and if they want to punish me for the fact that I can't watch Lost on Thursday nights at 8 pm but want to record it to my computer, vhs or whatever and watch it at Sunday at 10:30 pm, I'll give them my address and we can talk about it face to face. :angry:

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Absolutely correct. But the point I was trying to make (perhaps inartfully) is that the law applicable to all copyrighted works -- whether you get them through cable or on a DVD -- makes no distinction as to whether or not you just made the copies for yourself or were foolish enough to try to make a buck off of someone else's copyrighted material. I only referred to the DVD's FBI warning because I'm sure we are all familiar with that, and its a warning that I believe applies equally to all copyrighted materials -- although I'm not a copyright lawyer.

Indeed there is quite a difference, at least as far as analog distribution vs. DVD. But, I don't really consider myself too qualified to even discuss it here.

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What are those flashing red and blue lights you can see through the front and back windows of your house, Paul?

 

And why is your house lit up by that helicopter?? Those men in the black suits at the front door - is that a new way to get it open?

 

:ninja: :ninja: :ninja:

 

 

 

[this would be funny except 'the Industry' is pretty rabid when they can be]

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When rules such as this are brought to an extreme -- like saying its illegal to record what is sent to your house via a cable feed -- and makes virtually everybody lawbreakers, doesn't it in fact encourage -- or at least result in -- disrespect for the law? What is the point of the video recorder of days gone by, or as was noted above, TiVo?

 

Does this make copyright laws relating to shows sent to your television kinda like a 55 mph speed limit?

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When rules such as this are brought to an extreme -- like saying its illegal to record what is sent to your house via a cable feed -- and makes virtually everybody lawbreakers, doesn't it in fact encourage -- or at least result in -- disrespect for the law? What is the point of the video recorder of days gone by, or as was noted above, TiVo?

 

Does this make copyright laws relating to shows sent to your television kinda like a 55 mph speed limit?

None of us are qualified to answer your questions it is the same as getting your legal advice from fellow commuters at a bus stop!

 

Actually what comes through your Cable, Dish or Air may have DRM added. Newer recording devices will include the DRM and you may be able to 'playback' but you will be unable to copy or edit! But it is up to the holder of the copyright as to whither DRM is applied to the transmission!

 

I would use this for a guideline: If I can import and edit the source without the need of anything to 'crack' into it, I am not violating the Spirit of Intent of the law to view it once or twice.

 

If I make it into an Archive to keep forever, I am indeed violating the Intent!

 

Likewise if I distribute my copy to friends or family outside of my house, I am in violation.

 

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So if you record a television show, edit out the commercials and put it on, say, your child's iPod, are you breaking copyright laws?

What if you put the show(s) on a DVD for your kids to watch at a later time? <_<

The way much of the laws are written, you would be breaking the law. I can only tell you that I personally have no problem recording tv to my computer, set top dvd player or vhs player and watching it when I want or removing the commercials and copying it to dvd. And they'll never stop me from doing so unless the dreaded broadcast flag is used. With TV shows sold on DVD almost as soon as the season is over, our recording and saving till later or sharing with others is considered a violation of the laws (as I interpret it). I think it just keeps those who break encryption busy.

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I guess one could argue that Cable Companies are breaking the rules when they give you a DVR to record not 1 but 2 shows at a time for later viewing. So what if you tape a PPV movie that you paid $4 for to your DVR then invite neighbors over to watch it? Is that illegal? Yes, I'm being ridiculously picky but in many ways, so are the DRM police.

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I bring this up because my oldest daughter -- 11-- asked me if the stuff I was putting on her iPod was copyrighted! I guess they had some class or something. I don't like lying or telling her I'm a lawbreaker. In fact, I don't want to be either. In my view, if its delivered to your home code-free, and you are paying for your cable service, you should be able to view it in a format of your choosing. How long can you keep it, any how many time? Who knows.

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I guess one could argue that Cable Companies are breaking the rules when they give you a DVR to record not 1 but 2 shows at a time for later viewing. So what if you tape a PPV movie that you paid $4 for to your DVR then invite neighbors over to watch it? Is that illegal? Yes, I'm being ridiculously picky but in many ways, so are the DRM police.

 

 

tweedy.gif

 

yawn.gifyawn.gifyawn.gif

 

cd

 

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I bring this up because my oldest daughter -- 11-- asked me if the stuff I was putting on her iPod was copyrighted! I guess they had some class or something. I don't like lying or telling her I'm a lawbreaker. In fact, I don't want to be either. In my view, if its delivered to your home code-free, and you are paying for your cable service, you should be able to view it in a format of your choosing. How long can you keep it, any how many time? Who knows.

Copyright is a relatively simple concept in general, but as soon as you start talking about any specifics, it gets complicated. And with DRM and the laws regarding that, it's gotten exponentially worse since they seem to conflict in some aspects. "Fair use" vs. greed is a lot of the problem. Reasonableness has gone out of the window.

 

As for your daughter's question, I think the answer is, yes, the stuff is copyrighted. The real question is whether or not what you're doing falls into "fair use" or "time shifting", or some other legal use.

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I think that if your suspicions are correct -- and I believe they are -- that there is something wrong. I don't want my kids to think that I'm doing something illegal, and if a program is not even being sold in, say, iPod format, what are you supposed to do?

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Certainly the FBI warnings on all DVDs make it clear that whether or not you receive any money for your efforts is irrelevant.

 

Well now you're going into a totally different area. Purchased or rented DVD's is not the same "set of rules" as recording a tv broadcast to watch it later. Copy protected DVD's is not such a "grey" area.

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