Bitsetting/booktype Newbie...

[kaiien]

OK. I want to try changing the booksetting of a +R to ROM for compatibility...I am not sure how to do this. And is it correct that if done correctly, a DVD+R with a booktype changed to ROM will be more compatible than DVD-R?

7.5 has DVD Info Pro (4.03 I believe) and I went in, changed it to ROM, and tried to burn a project and it hung. My drive is a Sony DRU-710A, and in DVD Info Pro used the LiteOn setting (since this drive is supposedly a LiteOn build from the information I have seen). Is this the wrong setting? Is there something else I need to do besides change booktype and then burn?

I also have a new I/O Magic IDVD16DLS drive that I have not installed yet. From the info I have seen, it's a BenQ make (which is listed in DVD Info Pro). I havn't downloaded the newest version of DVD Info yet (4.63 I think)...does it have support for more make/models?

This is the first disk I have tried and it failed. It shows as a blank disk still, but EMC7 doesn't want anything to do with this disk now...

Thankyou!!!!

[cdanteek]

Thanks for the info. I appreciate you getting all that together!!

 

Well, I tried changing the booktype on my my Sony DRU-710a using DVD InfoPro included with 7.5 (made a shiney new coaster) and on my new LiteOn SHM-165H6S with LiteOns program "Booktype 1.3.5"...this works OK, burnt a good disk that when cheacks says it's a DVD-ROM. However, my two set top players (One a DVD Recorder and the other a newest generation PS2), as well as 2 other players I've tested will not play the disk, or in the case of my DVD Recorder, has no trouble with the MENU but has a LOT of trouble playing the movie (pixilation, stuttering, etc)....but then a cheapo bought at Big Lots seems to be able to play it just fine, and will play on a PC DVD drive with no problem as well. There has GOT to be something that will work universally. Does the software to burn the movie make any difference? (like Nero, EMC, etc)

Thankyou all for your input, I do appreciate the help!

 

 

What brand of media are you using? Put it in a disc identifier program and list the media ID code (MID). Check a burned dvd in the identifier program for disc quality check. I think you have a disc quality problem the MID and quality check will tell. Or a burn to disc problem. Some players a less picky. Tell me your burner make and model # and firmware version, all available from DVDinfopro or cddvdspeed.

Walt's advice on the burner makers list of approved media is a good thing too.

 

cdanteek

[kaiien]

Commercial level of compatibility are pressed disc's.

Won't happen with burned DVD'S sorry!

cdanteek

 

No, I realize that. But if I can get a disc that averages 98% compatibility over a disc that averages 95%, the 3 % makes a difference!

 

Thankyou again for all the hand holding here....I have learned quite a bit.

[lynn98109]

So there is no advantage to using a +R and changing the booktype to ROM as far as compatibility?

My understanding was that by using this procedure the disc would be read on almost all players because it would be the same (basically) as a commmercial DVD...

 

A commercial disc has the pits and lands physically pressed into the aluminum.

 

A R media has the pits and lands created by "cooking" a dye with the laser. The differences between DVD plus and DVD dash as to do with the size of the recording units, among other things. It is still (like a CD) a question of how the pits and lands (equivilent of magnetic 0's and 1's) are created).

 

(RW media has the pits and lands created by melting and re-crystalizing an aluminum alloy, which promptly starts to de-crystalize, taking the data with it. That is why RW media, no matter how it is stored, will fade out sooner or later - altho if formatted for Packet-Writing, usually sooner.)

 

When a disc is fianlized, whether CD or DVD dash or DVD plus, it will act like a commercially pressed disc.

 

Lynn

[cdanteek]

Very interesting info - esp. since other forums sing the praises of Verbatim so consistently, and some folks insist that burning at a media's highest rated speeds is best (which has never proven out for me with any media in any burner - ever). But it sure seems to confirm TY's reputation for quality.

 

8X on 8X and 8X on 16X Not to bad, how do the look to you?

 

 

 

cdanteek

[cdanteek]

So there is no advantage to using a +R and changing the booktype to ROM as far as compatibility?

My understanding was that by using this procedure the disc would be read on almost all players because it would be the same (basically) as a commmercial DVD...

 

I see you want the long version. So I edited my short non technical wrong version above.

 

Three options -R oldest and most compatible (?) +R next and almost as compatible (?) and the DVD -Rom, what a bought disc is. To answer your last question above YES ( maybe ).

 

There are three different DVD recordable formats DVD-R RW, DVD+R RW and DVD-RAM. Not every DVD player is compatible with each disc. Even discs within each format do not always work on every player. All of them are different and require the DVD player to do different things. However the compatibility is still improved and the chance of a non working DVD recordable, DVD player combination is small under 20%.

 

Physically there is a difference between a DVD-R disc and a DVD+R disc that is made during the production process. During the production of a DVD-R disc the lead-in is pre-embossed (pre-written).

 

Booktype field identifies the disc as either a DVD-ROM, DVD+R(W) or a DVD-R(W) disc and is for a big part responsible for the compatibility. Because this setting is overwritten during the DVD-R production process it can’t be modified afterwards, the laser of your DVD recorder simply can’t write to that part of the disc. During the production of DVD+R discs the space is untouched. Every DVD recorder and DVD player has a limit in its firmware to write or read to this space. However, there is no limit for writing the booktype field. Therefor a DVD+R(W) recorder will be able to modify this field by sending a command to the DVD recorder and fool the DVD player.

 

When the booktype field (bitsetting) is changed to DVD-ROM then DVD players are fooled and will think the user has put in a DVD-ROM disc instead of a DVD+R disc and will read it accordingly. This results in an increased chance that the player is able to read the disc and that’s why the ability to change the booktype field (bitsetting) is essential to a lot of users. Certainly owners of a DVD player that requires this field to be set to DVD-ROM, in order to work properly, will prefer a DVD recorder that supports setting the booktype field.

 

So after burning a DVD-R, DVD+R, and a DVD+R Booktype changed to DVD-ROM. A disc identifier tool ( DVDinfoPro, Disc Identifer, CDDVDSpeed). The -R Disc & Booktype will be -R, the +R Disc & Booktype will be +R, and the +R Booktype changed to DVD-ROM, will read, Disc & Booktype DVD-ROM.

 

There is a non-proven (?) procedure for changing the Booktype on -R media. It involves a second session wrote to the disc on lead out. The DVD Player compatibility to play these is another problem!

 

If you would like a technical look at ( Why DVD+R(W) is superior to DVD-R(W) ) look here.

http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/113

 

There is firmware and software Booktype setting. The software setting is referred to as trickery and some say leads to problems.

 

A drive to name a couple, Plextor and BenQ come with Plextools and BenQ Suite. There a program designed to work with the drive and its firmware to make these settings. If I check the box in these programs to change Booktype on +R to DVD-ROM no matter what software is used its done.

 

The two DVD settop players I have will play -R, +R so no problem with single layer disc's. Dual layer is different and I use Verbatim +R DL media and set booktype to DVD-Rom. Both players play them and one is four and a half years old.

 

 

cdanteek

[kaiien]

Still need the disc quality check in dvdinfopro the button on top with the magnifying glass on it, to the left of pi po. Run it on the disc you have trouble playing on the settops.

 

cdanteek

 

Does quality check show a log of any kind that i can copy? It's shows 100% complete, and in the white box on the right it does not show any errors...

[cdanteek]

Does quality check show a log of any kind that i can copy? It's shows 100% complete, and in the white box on the right it does not show any errors...

 

 

No errors is a good thing and should be OK. See if a friend has different media and try, one here one there and see. Your Lite-on is a good burner and should do fine. Try the free imgburn in iso also and see.

The media I listed above I use in Plextor 708a, Plextor 712a, Plextor716a, BenQ 1640, Nec 3550a.

Bruce's comment on CMC Mag media is on the spot and I won't use it! Have you used -R media?

 

cdanteek

[kaiien]

No errors is a good thing and should be OK. See if a friend has different media and try, one here one there and see. Your Lite-on is a good burner and should do fine. Try the free imgburn in iso also and see.

The media I listed above I use in Plextor 708a, Plextor 712a, Plextor716a, BenQ 1640, Nec 3550a.

Bruce's comment on CMC Mag media is on the spot and I won't use it! Have you used -R media?

 

cdanteek

 

See, i thought buying a big name brand like memorex was good....and Yes, I have tried -R with decent results. As I said, I had the impression that +R booktyped to -ROM was even better, that's why i tried this. I am going to assume that these same companies sell just as bad -R as these CMC Mag +Rs....

Thankyou again for your help! I will probably get some Taiyo Yuden to play with....Too bad Tayio Yuden doesn't make Lightscribe tho, that would be awsome.

Thanks

[lynn98109]

See, i thought buying a big name brand like memorex was good....and Yes, I have tried -R with decent results. As I said, I had the impression that +R booktyped to -ROM was even better, that's why i tried this. I am going to assume that these same companies sell just as bad -R as these CMC Mag +Rs....

Thankyou again for your help! I will probably get some Taiyo Yuden to play with....Too bad Tayio Yuden doesn't make Lightscribe tho, that would be awsome.

Thanks

there have been more complaints having to do with Memorex quality than all other brands put together and multiplied by two.

 

Lynn

[kaiien]

What brand of media are you using? Put it in a disc identifier program and list the media ID code (MID). Check a burned dvd in the identifier program for disc quality check. I think you have a disc quality problem the MID and quality check will tell. Or a burn to disc problem. Some players a less picky. Tell me your burner make and model # and firmware version, all available from DVDinfopro or cddvdspeed.

Walt's advice on the burner makers list of approved media is a good thing too.

 

cdanteek

In this case, I used a LiteOnSHM-165H6S with firmware HS06 (current).

The media in this case is Memorex 8X +R. For the record, this disk was burnt at 6X not 8X.

Here's its data:

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD+R:CMC MAG-M01-000]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Disc & Book Type : [DVD+R] - [DVD-ROM]

Manufacturer Name : [CMC Magnetics Corp.]

Manufacturer ID : [CMC MAG]

Media Type ID : [M01]

Product Revision : [Not Specified]

Blank Disc Capacity : [2,295,104 Sectors = 4.70 GB (4.38 GiB)]

Recording Speeds : [1x-2.4x , 4x , 6x-8x , 6x-16x]

(This data was retrieved using LiteOn DVD Indentifier)

 

 

 

Media Information

Disc Regions are...............................................1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8

Media code/Manufacturer ID...............................CMC MAG M01

Media Product Revision Number..........................00h

Format Type.....................................................UDF 1.02

Volume Name...................................................Media Test 002

Application id

Implementation id.............................................RoxioBurnEngine 2.1

Recording Date/Time (mm/dd/yyyy)...................3/25/2006 23:57:29

Format Capacity................................................4.36GB(4.68GB)

Book Type........................................................DVD-ROM

Media Type.......................................................DVD+R

Manufacturer Rated Speed.................................16.0x 22160KBp

Data area starting sector...................................30000h

Data area end sector.........................................22DA3Fh

Linear Density...................................................0.267um/bit

Track Density....................................................0.74um/track

Number of Layers..............................................1

 

Complete Media Code

00000000 08 02 00 00 01 0F 01 00 00 03 00 00 00 25 DA 3F .............%.?

00000010 00 00 00 00 00 00 07 43 4D 43 20 4D 41 47 00 4D .......CMC MAG.M

00000020 30 31 00 38 23 54 37 18 00 3E 6E 00 70 62 15 15 01.8#T7..>n.pb..

00000030 0B 0B 08 08 01 19 1B 0B 0B 0E 0F 01 00 00 00 00 ................

(This data was retrieved using DVD Info Pro)

 

What I found of interest is this is the same media code used for a LARGE amount of the major brands...according to this, this is the same disk if I'd bought Maxell, HP, TDK, and some others..... Also of note is both programs identify this as up to 16X writable, but the package says 8X.

 

I have read that Taiyo Yuden is supposed to the BEST brand and most compatible...anyone know or can verify this? If so, what would be the best burner to use for this brand?

Thanks guys!!

[lynn98109]

What I found of interest is this is the same media code used for a LARGE amount of the major brands...according to this, this is the same disk if I'd bought Maxell, HP, TDK, and some others..... Also of note is both programs identify this as up to 16X writable, but the package says 8X.

 

There are just a handful of media factories these days, and most brands contract out the actual manufacture of the CDs to those factories. I think there may be a couple that still make their own, or some of them - TDK has recently announced it will be getting out of the blank media business, so it must still be in it.

 

Lynn

[rich86]

No, I realize that. But if I can get a disc that averages 98% compatibility over a disc that averages 95%, the 3 % makes a difference!

 

Thankyou again for all the hand holding here....I have learned quite a bit.

 

 

Here are a few added experiences and thoughts of mine. I hope I'm not being repetitive.

From what I have experienced:

DVD-R has better compatibility across players than DVD+R.

DVD+R with booktype set to DVD-ROM has slightly better compatibility across players than DVD-R.

But none of this is a guarantee that a burned dvd media will play on a particular player. Some players just don't like burned media or are very fussy about it.

I use a Benq 1620 burner - which has a Benq supplied module which let me set booktype to DVD-ROM for DVD+R media permanently. So I use DVD+R media these days and have had good experience with playing compatibility.

 

Your computer burner has a great deal to do with the quality of your burned media. Which brands work well in your burner have a great deal to do with the burn strategy stored in the firmware of your drive. You should make sure you have the most updated firmware available in your drive - and then do a bit of research to find which media works best. I find the listings in videohelp.com to be pretty informative. You can look up your burner and see what experience others are having with specific brand names of media. You can even look up dvd players to see what media plays well in them, according to user reports.

My Benq seems able to burn to most media, as long as I do not drive it to the highest burn speeds. I usually pick middle of the road speeds (ie. I burn 16x media at 8x in my 16x burner).

I use TDK media quite a bit - it is actually CMC media. CMC is a huge media manufacturer that supplies media to many brand names. Most of the time it works fine for me. But I would never burn CMC 16x media at 16x - and have even run into problems occasionally at 8x towards the end/outer rim of the burn, where the burn speeds tend to maximize. The last batch of TDK I bought priced out at $.22 each, so I could not resist and I can live with a couple of bad burns at that price. I also use Benq media (which is actually Daxon media - another Taiwanese manufacturer) and Ritek with good results. TY is generally considered to be the absolute best from what I read, but a bit more pricey than some other brands.

[grandpabruce]

In this case, I used a LiteOnSHM-165H6S with firmware HS06 (current).

The media in this case is Memorex 8X +R. For the record, this disk was burnt at 6X not 8X.

Here's its data:

 

What I found of interest is this is the same media code used for a LARGE amount of the major brands...according to this, this is the same disk if I'd bought Maxell, HP, TDK, and some others..... Also of note is both programs identify this as up to 16X writable, but the package says 8X.

 

I have read that Taiyo Yuden is supposed to the BEST brand and most compatible...anyone know or can verify this? If so, what would be the best burner to use for this brand?

Thanks guys!!

 

That CMC MAG is the worst media made. The Taiyo Yuden media is the Cadillac of media, but Verbatim is also excellent media. Try one or both of those brands of media with your burner, and see if your results are good.

[cdanteek]

See, i thought buying a big name brand like memorex was good....and Yes, I have tried -R with decent results. As I said, I had the impression that +R booktyped to -ROM was even better, that's why i tried this. I am going to assume that these same companies sell just as bad -R as these CMC Mag +Rs....

Thankyou again for your help! I will probably get some Taiyo Yuden to play with....Too bad Tayio Yuden doesn't make Lightscribe tho, that would be awsome.

Thanks

 

Verbatim does!

 

cdanteek

[grandpabruce]

Rich, check some of your older CMC Mag discs to see if there are any read errors. Use DVDInfoPro, which is included with the suite.

 

If any of those discs, that are over 2 months old, have no read errors, it is a miracle.

[cdanteek]

In this case, I used a LiteOnSHM-165H6S with firmware HS06 (current).

The media in this case is Memorex 8X +R. For the record, this disk was burnt at 6X not 8X.

Here's its data:

 

What I found of interest is this is the same media code used for a LARGE amount of the major brands...according to this, this is the same disk if I'd bought Maxell, HP, TDK, and some others..... Also of note is both programs identify this as up to 16X writable, but the package says 8X.

 

I have read that Taiyo Yuden is supposed to the BEST brand and most compatible...anyone know or can verify this? If so, what would be the best burner to use for this brand?

Thanks guys!!

 

 

Still need the disc quality check in dvdinfopro the button on top with the magnifying glass on it, to the left of pi po. Run it on the disc you have trouble playing on the settops.

 

cdanteek

[rich86]

Rich, check some of your older CMC Mag discs to see if there are any read errors. Use DVDInfoPro, which is included with the suite.

 

If any of those discs, that are over 2 months old, have no read errors, it is a miracle.

 

Yep - I've checked them and my Ritek's periodically and they are fine so far.

I'm not singing praises of CMC in any way - but they aren't always all that bad either if burned carefully with a drive loaded with a proper write strategy in the firmware and then stored properly. My Benq 1620 seems to burn to them just fine normally. The white inkjet print surfaces look terrific after going through my Epson R320 also.

[grandpabruce]

Yep - I've checked them and my Ritek's periodically and they are fine so far.

I'm not singing praises of CMC in any way - but they aren't always all that bad either if burned carefully with a drive loaded with a proper write strategy in the firmware and then stored properly. My Benq 1620 seems to burn to them just fine normally. The white inkjet print surfaces look terrific after going through my Epson R320 also.

 

The biggest problems that CMC MAG had was not in the way that the writes were made. Most of their problems are in the dyes itself, and the poor application of the poor dyes, to create the blank DVD. I just won't trust it.

[kaiien]

8X on 8X and 8X on 16X Not to bad, how do the look to you?

 

cdanteek

 

I don't want you wasting you time here...but what does the info in the graphs mean? i think i have a basic understanding, but I want to be sure... Hope I'm not only one unsure anyways...

Thanks man!

[lehill]

<snip>

I have read that Taiyo Yuden is supposed to the BEST brand and most compatible...anyone know or can verify this? If so, what would be the best burner to use for this brand?

Thanks guys!!

I use a Pioneer DVR-110D. I normally use Verbatim 16x -R (MCC03RG20) and TY 8x -R (TYG02). Pioneer has these disks (and others) listed as recommended media for this drive.

 

Using DVDInfoPro, I've been collecting PI/PO data for many of my burned disks to see if there really is a difference in burn quality. Here's are some PI/PO results for three different disk brands. The disks were burned using the same ISO file:

 

Office Depot -R (RITEKG05)

PI Peak - 73

PI Avg - 9

PO Peak - 71

PO Avg - 8

 

Verbatim 16x -R (MCC03RG20)

PI Peak - 114

PI Avg - 34

PO Peak - 78

PO Avg - 2

 

Taiyo Yuden 8x -R (TYG02)

PI Peak - 24

PI Avg - 10

PO Peak - 9

PO Avg - 0

 

These results are typical and TY always has the lowest PI/PO errors. I have also found that burning at lower speeds can lower the PI/PO error count a lot.

 

Just for kicks, I did an error check on a commercial DVD (Spiderman 2) and got these numbers:

PI Peak - 65

PI Avg - 4

PO Peak - 64

PO Avg - 4

 

Lance

*****

[rich86]

I use a Pioneer DVR-110D. I normally use Verbatim 16x -R (MCC03RG20) and TY 8x -R (TYG02). Pioneer has these disks (and others) listed as recommended media for this drive.

 

Using DVDInfoPro, I've been collecting PI/PO data for many of my burned disks to see if there really is a difference in burn quality. Here's are some PI/PO results for three different disk brands. The disks were burned using the same ISO file:

 

Office Depot -R (RITEKG05)

PI Peak - 73

PI Avg - 9

PO Peak - 71

PO Avg - 8

 

Verbatim 16x -R (MCC03RG20)

PI Peak - 114

PI Avg - 34

PO Peak - 78

PO Avg - 2

 

Taiyo Yuden 8x -R (TYG02)

PI Peak - 24

PI Avg - 10

PO Peak - 9

PO Avg - 0

 

These results are typical and TY always has the lowest PI/PO errors. I have also found that burning at lower speeds can lower the PI/PO error count a lot.

 

Just for kicks, I did an error check on a commercial DVD (Spiderman 2) and got these numbers:

PI Peak - 65

PI Avg - 4

PO Peak - 64

PO Avg - 4

 

Lance

*****

Very interesting info - esp. since other forums sing the praises of Verbatim so consistently, and some folks insist that burning at a media's highest rated speeds is best (which has never proven out for me with any media in any burner - ever). But it sure seems to confirm TY's reputation for quality.

[kaiien]

There is firmware and software Booktype setting. The software setting is referred to as trickery and some say leads to problems.

 

A drive to name a couple, Plextor and BenQ come with Plextools and BenQ Suite. There a program designed to work with the drive and its firmware to make these settings. If I check the box in these programs to change Booktype on +R to DVD-ROM no matter what software is used its done.

 

The two DVD settop players I have will play -R, +R so no problem with single layer disc's. Dual layer is different and I use Verbatim +R DL media and set booktype to DVD-Rom. Both players play them and one is four and a half years old.

cdanteek

Thanks for the info. I appreciate you getting all that together!!

 

Well, I tried changing the booktype on my my Sony DRU-710a using DVD InfoPro included with 7.5 (made a shiney new coaster) and on my new LiteOn SHM-165H6S with LiteOns program "Booktype 1.3.5"...this works OK, burnt a good disk that when cheacks says it's a DVD-ROM. However, my two set top players (One a DVD Recorder and the other a newest generation PS2), as well as 2 other players I've tested will not play the disk, or in the case of my DVD Recorder, has no trouble with the MENU but has a LOT of trouble playing the movie (pixilation, stuttering, etc)....but then a cheapo bought at Big Lots seems to be able to play it just fine, and will play on a PC DVD drive with no problem as well. There has GOT to be something that will work universally. Does the software to burn the movie make any difference? (like Nero, EMC, etc)

Thankyou all for your input, I do appreciate the help!

[lehill]

Very interesting info - esp. since other forums sing the praises of Verbatim so consistently, and some folks insist that burning at a media's highest rated speeds is best (which has never proven out for me with any media in any burner - ever). But it sure seems to confirm TY's reputation for quality.

 

I still belive Verbatim deserves some praise. What's not conveyed by the PI/PO error counts is the "spikey-ness" of the error graphs. The Office Depot error graphs have one or two regions with low error counts surrounded by regions with many many big error spikes. The Verbatim graphs have a consistant error level throughout with maybe 2-3 big error spikes.

 

I take this to mean that the Verbatim dye layer is very consistant across the entire disk surface and the error level is low enough so it doesn't cause a problem. For Office Depot, with all those big error spikes, you're bound to run into a situation where they cause a DVD player to choke.

 

After saying all that, even when using TY's burned at low speeds with incredibly low error counts, I still have a problem playing them on older DVD players. I assume this is because the lasers on the older players are not "tuned" for dye-based DVD media.

 

Lance

*****

[bimicher]

Thanks for the info. I appreciate you getting all that together!!

 

Well, I tried changing the booktype on my my Sony DRU-710a using DVD InfoPro included with 7.5 (made a shiney new coaster) and on my new LiteOn SHM-165H6S with LiteOns program "Booktype 1.3.5"...this works OK, burnt a good disk that when cheacks says it's a DVD-ROM. However, my two set top players (One a DVD Recorder and the other a newest generation PS2), as well as 2 other players I've tested will not play the disk, or in the case of my DVD Recorder, has no trouble with the MENU but has a LOT of trouble playing the movie (pixilation, stuttering, etc)....but then a cheapo bought at Big Lots seems to be able to play it just fine, and will play on a PC DVD drive with no problem as well. There has GOT to be something that will work universally. Does the software to burn the movie make any difference? (like Nero, EMC, etc)

Thankyou all for your input, I do appreciate the help!

Unfortunately there does not seem to be anything that works "universally". The whole home video process seems to involve a lot of "black magic" and is a lot Hit & miss as well as trial and error. Many of us have found that certain media work better with certain burners/players then others. Quite often the manufacturers of burners/players will have a list of media that works best with their product.

[kaiien]

Verbatim does!

 

cdanteek

The only Verbatim Lightscibe sold in my area is either CD-R or DVD+R, so if i go that roughte i will need to order online. So in your guys opinion, id Verbatim on par with Taiyo Yuden, close second, or in the dust in comparison??

Taiyo Yuden on the other hand currently make NO lightscribe (anyone know if this is going to change?) on printable, so i have been looking that route as well. As I said, I really need an almost commercial level of compatibility for what I gearing up for...that's why this is such a big deal (to me). Thankyou again!!!