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Click/dropout At Every Crossfade Point


Sir Cecil

Question

I cannot get any use from the crossfade function. As a long-time Jam user, I'm horrified to see this Toast 9 version of the crossfade facility is apparently useless. All my crossfades are of the "custom" variety, but I checked to see if the problem happens with the other settings (linear, equal power etc) and it does.

 

However the crossfade is produced, there is a very clear and totally unacceptable "dropout/click effect at the point where the track divider is positioned. I bought this software for my new Macbook Pro (the most recent model) after hearing that Jam 6 would not work well with Leopard (I'd been using Jam 6 with Panther in my old Powerbook with no big problems).

But so far this Toast 9 replacement has been worthless to me.

 

I use AIFF files almost exclusively, and never use MP3 for my purposes. Tracks from both previously-burned CDRs and normal commercial CDs exhibit the problem when crossfaded. The problem is apparent when playing back the crossfade in the crossfade window, and also on any disc image of the crossfaded tracks.

 

Thanks in advance for any info to remedy this.

 

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14 answers to this question

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Weeks later, still no recognition of this obvious problem from Roxio. I've now personally had six Toast 9 users out of six try crossfading on their own Macs and all have the same problem as I've detailed. Does Roxio have any intention of fixing this? Or even acknowledging it? Does the text at the top right of this page say "Roxio.com Support"?

Actually, six out of seven. You convinced me that I should test this again on my Mac and the cross fades again sound perfect. Yes, I'm wearing headphones and using AIFF files. Clicking Play in Toast after applying a crossfade sounds perfect and so does playing the resulting .sd2f image file in QuickTime Player. I then changed the .sd2f extension to .aiff so I could open it in CD Spin Doctor and study the waveform in a magnified view. There is no break of any kind in the file where the crossfade occurs. This is on a MacBook Pro running OS 10.5.3.

 

I don't have any explanation for why it works fine for me but not for you and the others you've checked with. It does, however, suggest that Roxio's staff aren't nuts when they say they aren't hearing what your hearing. I'm not nuts, at least. There is no click present on my crossfades.

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There is no click present on my crossfades.

 

 

No-one has said there is a click in the actual crossfades! I can't write more clearly than to say CROSSFADED TRACKS. WHEN PLAYED IN THE TOAST 9 MAIN WINDOW, EXHIBIT A DROPOUT EFFECT AT EVERY TRACK-CHANGE POINT. Put one of your own crossfaded disc images into Toast 9 and rather than press the burn button, press play. At every track-change point you willl hear the crossfade disfigured by a dropout effect. This isn't open to debate. It's there. This is like the Monty Python Parrot Sketch. It's so obvious it is sad! The disc image when burned will reproduce the crossfades okay, but that is not the point. When, say, a dozen tracks have been crossfaded and one listens and reviews the crossfaded tracks in the main window prior to burning, there are dropouts at every track point (with pause time set at 0 by the way). This is not a "does it happen or doesn't it" question. It's a fact, pure and simple.

 

After crossfading several tracks together, one is supposed to be able to "Preview" one's work prior to burning. The Preview is selected in one of the Toast 9 dropdown menus. In Preferences, one can set the preview time for a various range of times, say 4 seconds at the end of each track and four seconds of the start of the next one. So, one hears eight-second snippets of every crossfade point to ensure all is well before burning. BUT THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE BECAUSE THERE ARE DROPOUTS EVIDENT IN EVERY PREVIEW even if they aren't in the actiual crossfades themselves!

 

Is that any clearer? What kind of professionals work on an audio product and, after weeks of being told, still can't hear dropouts at every track-change point when crossfaded audio is played in their product's main window? This is becoming a joke. I've spoken to people at Roxio Support on the phone and all they say is "I've not heard of that before."

 

If you cannot hear what I'm talking about after this further description, then I despair.

 

This problem did not (and does not) occur in Jam 6. It is all of Toast 9's making. The software does not work as intended. This wouldn't be so bad if Roxio's learned engineers could say they'll do something about it, but instead they deny there's a problem. Disgraceful.

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Even easier... don't do anything more than play a pair of tracks from a commercially-available CD that features a track point during a CONTINUOUS piece of music. Like a symphony that has a track marker between movements, but no gap in the music. Play it back in the main Toast 9 audio window. You'll hear a dropout at the track point.

 

Even iPod managed to bring in gapless playback, but it looks like it's beyond Roxio. And this is supoosed to be a semi-pro tool. Dreadful.

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Thanks for following up.

 

Unfortunately, there's no progress here. Today I installed Toast 9 and the latest downloaded update to a brand new, fresh out of the box iMac. Same problem as before... the crossfade can be prepared in the crossfade window, but as soon as "Apply" is clicked, everything played in the main window has the same dropout effect at the track change point. If I then reopen the crossfade window (showing the mechanics of the specific fade), the crossfade can be heard exactly as it was originally constructed, with no interruption. But again, when I return to the main window, the crossfade is plagued by the "dropout" noise.

 

The only thing I haven't done is throw out the two items you mentioned. I can't find any files in that specific location with Toast on them. Could that in itself be part of the problem?

 

So basically, no change after using two different computers.

 

 

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I have the same problem, no gapless audio in toast 9.0.2 and toast 8.0.3 too....

no continuies playback, I was needed put two tracks without pause or even merged, just second track starts play and first not stop yet, without crossfades, and I got dropout in point where second track starts, this dropout very small but noticable,

when I search this problem in crossfades section,click on Preview button play audio without dropout..

Burn such project gives dropout on Audio CD

Jam 6.0.3 has no such trouble and make its OK

PowerPC G5, 10.4.11....

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Good grief. I thought it was a serious problem given your level of indignation and insult. It took me several tracks to find one that was quiet enough to hear the click in the Preview playback. You're right, it's there and fixing it should be on Roxio's list of bugs to fix in a future version. Thanks for bringing it to their attention.

 

I naturally thought you were complaining that a click was added to the actual audio you were recording. Silly me. I realize that you'll now go on to rant about how very serious this horrendous click is to you as an audio professional. Envision my yawn.

 

I wouldn't write a post with this attitude if I didn't feel you were being absurdly condescending to me.

 

Use Jam 6 and be happy.

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The only thing I haven't done is throw out the two items you mentioned. I can't find any files in that specific location with Toast on them. Could that in itself be part of the problem?

One of the files is titled "com.roxio.Toast.plist" and the other is "Roxio Toast Prefs". They are created when Toast launches for the first time.

 

The fact you're having this problem on two Macs is very curious. It makes me want to check it again on mine but I'm off on another trip today.

 

Had you said the problem appeared when burning a disc then I'd suggest checking if Disc at Once or Track at Once is selected in the Recorder Settings window. The latter will leave breaks between tracks. But your description is that the problem appears when clicking the Apply button and is present with a .sd2f file created by Jam 6. I'm very puzzled.

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I realize that you'll now go on to rant about how very serious this horrendous click is to you as an audio professional. Envision my yawn.

 

This response suggests utter lack of insight as to how many people use Jam (or Toast 9's crossfading tool). For many, it is not just a simple means of crossfading the end of one track with the start of another. It is also an essential and unique editing tool, creating micro-edits for getting rid of extraneous noises (clicks, pops etc), removing partial or whole notes invisibly, etc etc etc.

 

Only a couple of days ago, with Jam 6, I repaired an old (1939) and invaluable soundtrack recording suffering from 11 clicks of greatly varying intensity in an 18-second second stretch of music. Using micro-fading and editing/crossfading in two identical notes from elsewhere in the cue, these were all invisibly removed, by micro-crossfading all edits at levels of the most minute detail. It took over 15 hours of work.

 

It might be beyond your simplistic understanding of this tool to appreciate how it is then necessary to constantly be able to replay that piece of highly-complex editing accurately as it is progress, to ensure the flow and integrity of each multi-crossfaded edit and how each one relates the the others in such close proximity. Toast 9 now makes this impossible, adding a DROPOUT AT EVERY EDIT POINT.

 

Spare me your sarcasms. It's taken you WEEKS to even recognize an obvious and consistent problem, yet even after this revelation, you haven't the capability of understanding what a DISASTROUS problem of PRIME CONCERN this is for anyone using the software with an Intel Mac for something rather more complex than your own undemanding purposes.

 

The editing I mentioned above was a small part of a major restoration of a famed movie soundtrack of significant value, originally recorded on acetates. The cost of this audio restoration is valued at several tens of thousands of dollars. I was involved only on several extremely brief sections that defied restoration via other editing techniques, including professional suites like Peak Pro. Your opinion as to what is a substantial or minor problem is of no consequence because you have no experience of the purpose to which the software is being used. All that's been asked of you and your chums at Roxio is to recognize the FAULT in the software and fix it so people can get on with their work.

 

Up till now not one of Roxio's "Support" team has been of even the slightest assistance. There is an undoubted FAULT in the software and it has taken this long for anyone to even recognize it on here. My previous concerns and comments that no-one at Roxio cares, is glaringly reflected by your "yawn".

 

AFTER NOTE: Your suggestion to use Jam 6 instead of Toast 9 is all very well, but having spent $99+tax at the Apple Store for the latter, I would appreciate being able to use it for its intended purpose.

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Just to make sure I described it clearly, there is no problem when I'm actually creating the crossfade – it sounds fine until I click "Apply" and from that point on, the problem is always apparent on replay.

 

UPDATE:

 

I decided to try JAM 6 in Leopard (10.5.2). I haven't checked the whole program for compatibility, but the crossfade function DOES work, not showing the problem of Toast 9. HOWEVER, when I take a Disc Image of two successfully crossfaded Jam 6 tracks and place them in the Toast 9 window, the problem returns – with the "dropout" clearly sounding at the track transition mark. Re=opening the tracks in Jam 6.... no problem in this regard.

Thanks for the detailed info. I've just returned from my weekend trip and completed a short test. I added AIFF tracks from a live concert and performed various crossfades in Toast 9, including moving the track transition point. I then saved as disc image and opened the disc image in Toast. The crossfades were as set and no dropout was present. I did this on a MacBook Pro with 10.5.2.

 

I believe something is wrong with your install of Toast. Trash the Toast plist and prefs files in your User>Library>Preferences file and relaunch Toast. If that doesn't fix it reinstall Toast as well.

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It's no use, Sir Cecil. I started moaning about this when Toast 8 arrived and it's still there. Meaning one still cannot burn a gapless audio CD with Toast 9, because the tick, dropout or whatever one wants to call it can be heard ON THE BURNED DISC! So I'm still using Toast 7 or Burn to get the job done.

 

Having paid for Toast 6, 7, 8, 9 and some iterations of Popcorn doesn't seem to impress Roxio at all. I think it's sad to see that my Toast 9 is now reduced to burning Data discs only. For the other stuff Im quite happy with DVD2One, DVDRemaster and Burn. Oh well...

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Basically, it appears that all tracks, whether crossfaded or not, exhibit a "dropout" at the track transition point when played in the main Toast 9 window. Even files with previously-crossfaded tracks (made in Jam 6) have the symptom when imported into Toast 9.

 

$100 of mine in Roxio's coffers for nothing.

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I haven't experienced this with my MacBook Pro running Leopard. I also have Jam 6 and haven't used it with the MBP so I'll give that a try as well but it'll be a couple days before I can get to it.

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Just to make sure I described it clearly, there is no problem when I'm actually creating the crossfade – it sounds fine until I click "Apply" and from that point on, the problem is always apparent on replay.

 

UPDATE:

 

I decided to try JAM 6 in Leopard (10.5.2). I haven't checked the whole program for compatibility, but the crossfade function DOES work, not showing the problem of Toast 9. HOWEVER, when I take a Disc Image of two successfully crossfaded Jam 6 tracks and place them in the Toast 9 window, the problem returns – with the "dropout" clearly sounding at the track transition mark. Re=opening the tracks in Jam 6.... no problem in this regard.

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Weeks later, still no recognition of this obvious problem from Roxio. I've now personally had six Toast 9 users out of six try crossfading on their own Macs and all have the same problem as I've detailed. Does Roxio have any intention of fixing this? Or even acknowledging it? Does the text at the top right of this page say "Roxio.com Support"?

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