Dvd Writing Fails While Success Is Reported By Dvdit Pro Hd

[konst]

Hallo experts,

HD material (in form of two elementary streams, one stream for video, mpg, the other one for sound, mpa) of 112 minutes length each (total volume of 20,5 Gigabyte), while running perfectly in the preview window of DVDit Pro HD with all video visible and sound complete, when writing a "volume" on hard-disk, gives vob-files with incomplete video: 24 minutes of video are missing while audio is complete. This outcome does not change if I change from dual to single layer DVD, or if I switch from CBR to VBR settings.

The same video part is also missing from the ts-stream I can produce on hard disk under the blue ray option of DVDit Pro HD.

DVDit Pro HD tells me always "Disc successfully completed." The video parts are always stopping at the same spot (image).

The elementary streams were created in Avid Media Composer. The hard disks I am writing to and reading from have ample space.

I have followed meticulously the certification hints of Avid when setting up my HP xw8400 workstation. I am using Windows XP.

Anyone with similar experiences?

 

I have found that shorter, incomplete elementary streams around the "critical" spot of the video do not show the problem.

The attempt to split the film at the critical spot into two movies (parts) on the same DVD gave me video missing in both movies (parts) at new spots.

 

I have been testing and trying for two weeks now, with

support from Roxio. However, without success.

Can anyone help?

 

 

[konst]

Hallo,

I can report success for the strategy which was exporting a Quicktime Movie with Avid 1:1x Codec to DVIit Pro HD avoiding Sorensen Squeeze.

It took 32 hours for a 112 minutes movie. (16 hours to export, and the same amount of time for the transcoding and writing

inside DVDit Pro HD. The export was done in two roughly equal parcels and resulted in two Quicktime files summing up to 142 GB. The movies were integrated inside DVDit Pro HD.). I did it both with CBR and VBR, for Dual Layer DVDs. Success meaning: the resulting Video was no longer incomplete.

 

Thanks to all of you for your help

[Wink Tinkler]

I've had similar problems also working from Avid Media Composer, which seem quirky to me (coming from the DVD It Pro HD side .... of the software work).

 

Have you tried (if your source material will allow it ...?) to export your Avid Project as a Quick Time Reference files rather than as elementary streams..? then import those 'movies' into DVD It Pro HD .... (BTW at least for me ... exporting small portions of each sequence ... to be able to import small movies into DVD It Pro HD, works better ) Less hassle setting chapter points, easier to create playlists etc. without spending as much time inside DVD It Pro HD waiting for it .... during the BD or DVD menu structure ....

 

I find that it works better for me that way, and, when I have exported elementary streams from Avid MC, even if the 'specs' of the streams are exactly as desired for import by DVD It Pro HD (from the help file import settings which should not require transcoding ...) I find that DVD It Pro HD transcodes the files anyway (so twice the manipulation, once in Avid then again by DVD IT, which results in lesser end quality when viewing Blue Ray output on a large screen 1080p LCD HDTV.)

 

With the Quick Time reference files output from Media Composer, the only transcoding that takes place is ONE TIME by DVD It Pro HD. I find I get better end product than if using Sorenson Squeeze or Canopus Pro Coder.

 

I know this is not answering the question you specifically asked, but it works better for me

 

Good luck ....

 

 

[danny]

no, QT will always be transcoded in DVDit Pro HD. the only things that will not be are DVD or legal MPEG (elementary and program streams) and in 6.4 BD legal AVC and VC-1 elementary streams.

 

Hallo SS Scott,

I´ve got a question about this! I tried to use a VC-1 within dvdithd6.4 that I took from the netblender-site to try out the new feature. DVDitHD6.4 did a transcoding from the VC-1 to MPEG2HD!!! ???

 

so what went wrong?

 

It was one of their sample-assets from the website, so I couldn believe that it´s not spec-conform and I had no transcoding-option turned ON.

 

 

Any idea?

 

 

THX

 

 

danny

[SS Scott]

their VC-1 is not BD legal. they say that it is, but it is not. they will find that when that video is put into an image and and it is verified with the Sony and Panasonic verifiers that it will throw a number of errors.

[konst]

I've had similar problems also working from Avid Media Composer, which seem quirky to me (coming from the DVD It Pro HD side .... of the software work).

 

Have you tried (if your source material will allow it ...?) to export your Avid Project as a Quick Time Reference files rather than as elementary streams..? then import those 'movies' into DVD It Pro HD .... (BTW at least for me ... exporting small portions of each sequence ... to be able to import small movies into DVD It Pro HD, works better ) Less hassle setting chapter points, easier to create playlists etc. without spending as much time inside DVD It Pro HD waiting for it .... during the BD or DVD menu structure ....

 

I find that it works better for me that way, and, when I have exported elementary streams from Avid MC, even if the 'specs' of the streams are exactly as desired for import by DVD It Pro HD (from the help file import settings which should not require transcoding ...) I find that DVD It Pro HD transcodes the files anyway (so twice the manipulation, once in Avid then again by DVD IT, which results in lesser end quality when viewing Blue Ray output on a large screen 1080p LCD HDTV.)

 

With the Quick Time reference files output from Media Composer, the only transcoding that takes place is ONE TIME by DVD It Pro HD. I find I get better end product than if using Sorenson Squeeze or Canopus Pro Coder.

 

I know this is not answering the question you specifically asked, but it works better for me

 

Good luck ....

 

Thank you very much for your quick response. I shall follow your Quicktime Reference suggestion. Your argument about avoiding double coding is convincing.

I was also surprised to note that DVDit does another recoding after one has passed through Sorensen Squeeze.

The best results I got were uncompressed HDV streams (from Avid Media Composer with file endings m2t) directed without any further filter, apart from using Windows Media Player instead of VLC, to a large 1080p LCD HDTV screen.

However, I need DVDs to distribute my film, I cannot send to everybody a hard disk with an HDV stream on them. Hard disks still cost to much for that purpose.

Thanks again. It is always helpful to know that one is not the only victim.

[Wink Tinkler]

I highly appreciate you comments and tipps. I have some replies and further questions (below).

 

 

 

When I try to export a Quicktime Reference file I am told by Avid Media Composer V. 2.7.5 that this option is not available for GOP material and I don't think that my Avid is crippled.

Could it be that the people you have in mind first downconverted their material to DV?

 

 

 

If you transcode your assets inside Avid Media Composer to DNxHD 175 or 175 X, depending on what your source material format is...., then you can export a Quick Time Reference file, then DVD It Pro HD will take that it, but will transcode also.

 

If your source is HDV (in avid it is DNxHD 145 codec material) then the long GOP issue will always be true in Avid Media composer, as Quick Time Ref files cannot be created from HDV 1080i long GOP source material... to the best of my knowledge... If someone knows otherwise, please chime in....

 

That is a very high quality codec (DNxHD 175 ir 175 X with large data rates...) which gives better end results for me on Blue Ray BD material authored later in DVD It Pro HD

 

Don't know if this helps you. Of course like SS Scott said, you can also export a quicktime movie in media composer (which will be quite large) and avoid any further transcoding (in theory, if you follow the specs in the Quick time movie export settings in Avid to fit the required settings which DVD It Pro HD wants to be 'fed' in order to not transcode again...)...

 

good luck

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the meantime, anticipating your suggestion, I actually have already made some experiments and the results for a small section of my film were promising. I am now in the process of applying the idea to the whole film.

 

 

 

The audio as such was never a problem. Are you suggesting that a perfect mpa audio could cause a problem on the video side?

I did not go through Sorensen Squeeze, so I had not chosen VBR in Squeeze.

Inside DVDit Pro HD, it did not make a difference whether I chose CBR or VBR.

If your explanation of the stopping of the transcode is correct, and again I have had already the same idea and therefore I sympathize with it, then I still wonder why the transcoding did not stop much earlier. Looking just at the film's content, it could have stopped at any time before.

 

Further questions:

Is it wise to avoid compression inside Avid if you go through either Sorensen Squeeze and/or

DVDit Pro HD or both given that both Sorensen and DVDit do compressive transcoding?

Is it wise to go through Sorensen Squeeze given that DVDit Pro HD does its own transcoding?

What sort of coding is going on inside DVDit when Sorensen Squeeze has already been used/applied?

Do I get better quality if I let either Avid or Sorensen do the compression instead of DVDit Pro HD?

 

These questions have implications for my current experiment/strategy which is to

produce a quicktime movie using the Avid 1:1x codec which avoids any compression and thus has the disadvantage of outputting large files but has the advantage of being faster than a codec that does compress. I am currently applying this strategy and the machine is still working to produce the quicktime files. (It takes about 8 hours to output 1 hour of film.) When finished, I intend to avoid Sorensen and let DVDit do all the compression. As I said before, for a small section from the beginning of my film, the strategy worked. Soon I shall know whether the strategy works for the whole film. But if it does, further questions arise: Is the resulting quality the best? Is the strategy optimal? What are the tradeoffs between quality and speed of production?

 

 

Thank you for your support and attention.

 

[SS Scott]

no, QT will always be transcoded in DVDit Pro HD. the only things that will not be are DVD or legal MPEG (elementary and program streams) and in 6.4 BD legal AVC and VC-1 elementary streams.

[danny]

their VC-1 is not BD legal. they say that it is, but it is not. they will find that when that video is put into an image and and it is verified with the Sony and Panasonic verifiers that it will throw a number of errors.

 

WOW,

special THX, good to know.

 

In that reason, could you please tell me, which encoder output correct bd-spec AVC and VC-1 besides the sonic-products. I would like to order a BD-creator with the encoders, but sorry, I haven´t got the money for this, I´m just a small company.

 

THX again

 

 

danny

[konst]

Thank you very much for your quick response. I shall follow your Quicktime Reference suggestion. Your argument about avoiding double coding is convincing.

I was also surprised to note that DVDit does another recoding after one has passed through Sorensen Squeeze.

The best results I got were uncompressed HDV streams (from Avid Media Composer with file endings m2t) directed without any further filter, apart from using Windows Media Player instead of VLC, to a large 1080p LCD HDTV screen.

However, I need DVDs to distribute my film, I cannot send to everybody a hard disk with an HDV stream on them. Hard disks still cost to much for that purpose.

Thanks again. It is always helpful to know that one is not the only victim.

 

 

 

My attempt to use the Quick Reference idea failed. In Avid Media Composer one cannot export HD material (GOP-material) as QuickTime Reference.

[SS Scott]

<<In that reason, could you please tell me, which encoder output correct bd-spec AVC and VC-1 besides the sonic-products. I would like to order a BD-creator with the encoders, but sorry, I haven´t got the money for this, I´m just a small company.>>

 

that's a tough one Danny. the encoders are going to have to do some catch up. The application works great with CineVision streams (obviously an expensive option) but I think this community is going to have to experiment to figure out what is legal. I have been told by one of the users that main concept reference encoder VC-1 streams appeared to be legal (at least NTSC streams) but you would have to verify that.

[SS Scott]

That can't be true as a rule unless you hae some crippled version of avid. I have had many Avid users output HD QT reference files and use those to create discs. you could also output a QT file...though that will be a very large file. Go over to Avid's forum and see if you can get some tips on outputting a QT reference file from your material.

 

Couple of things to check out:

 

1) don't use MPA audio. try to output either PCM or AC3 you will have more success. in fact, that could be the problem.

2) don't use VBR encoding in Squeeze. I suspect DVDit Pro HD is reencoding your file due to something illegal. I further suspect that for some reason DVDit Pro HD is detecting almost nil data at the location that is being cut off. ie, it's stopping the transcode at that location because it thinks the file is finished.

[danny]

that's a tough one Danny. the encoders are going to have to do some catch up. The application works great with CineVision streams (obviously an expensive option) but I think this community is going to have to experiment to figure out what is legal. I have been told by one of the users that main concept reference encoder VC-1 streams appeared to be legal (at least NTSC streams) but you would have to verify that.

 

Hallo,

is it a verification, if the stream will be excepted within DVDitHD, or do I have to use ECLIPSE to check this out?

 

 

thx

 

 

danny

[drbgaijin]

My attempt to use the Quick Reference idea failed. In Avid Media Composer one cannot export HD material (GOP-material) as QuickTime Reference.

 

Sorry I haven't been online for a while, so maybe you already got an answer to your problem.

 

Otherwise I have a Tutorial about exporting from Media Composer via QT Reference and the steps to get the finished Blu-Ray from there.

 

It is at

http://www.gaijin-eyes.com/tutorials/MCtoBLURAY/MCBLU01.htm

 

Hope this helps

Regards,

Douglas

 

 

 

[konst]

Sorry I haven't been online for a while, so maybe you already got an answer to your problem.

 

Otherwise I have a Tutorial about exporting from Media Composer via QT Reference and the steps to get the finished Blu-Ray from there.

 

It is at

http://www.gaijin-eyes.com/tutorials/MCtoBLURAY/MCBLU01.htm

 

Hope this helps

Regards,

Douglas

 

 

In order to arrive at DVDs from HD material I have tried the following strategies:

1. Elementary streams in DVDit Pro HD:

This led to DVD-files with incomplete video (see the story of my initial posting in this thread).

2. Exporting Quicktime Movies to DVDit Pro HD:

My repeated attempts to output my film (of 112 minutes) as a series of smaller and partial Quicktime movies, to be linked by the DVD, failed for two alternative reasons.

Either the resolution was not good enough when using Avid 1:1x Codec in SD mode, (HD mode not being applicable because of its immense file sizes. HD mode is not the default mode preselected by Avid for the Avid 1:1x Codec, in my system at least.) or

when using the fine H.264 codec, I never could obtain a usable mov-file for

the section of the film that contains the more complicated video effects since Media Composer mostly stopped with access violation exception error reports, structured exceptions, but also with trivial 922-errors (fatal error on unknown slot) on my HP xw8400 workstation and Windows XP.

3. Video mixdown and Quicktime Reference files:

This follows the suggestion of drbgaijin which is to create first a video mixdown.

Combining the video result of the mixdown with the audio into a new sequence, I could export a Quicktime Reference Movie in almost no time.

Using a variable bit rate and a target bit rate of 9250 kbps I succeeded in

getting a fairly good resolution on a DVD where the video part summed up to slightly over 7 GB. (The Max bit rate was set at 9300).

 

The video mixdown was rather fast (five hours) and the transcoding in DVDit (seven hours for 112 minutes of film, VBR and target bit rate 9000 kbps) was also acceptable. These times are comparable to the time required for exporting a Quicktime Movie for only a third of the film's length.

 

Conclusion:

The successful way to get HD material on DVD with non-trivial video effects with my system (Windows XP, HP xw8400, two Dual Core processors, Raid 0 hard disk for the mfx-files, 4GB Ram of which ca. 3,4 GB seem to be used.) is to have a video mixdown first. My experience confirms the suggestions of drbgaijin for which I am grateful.

 

 

 

 

 

[konst]

I highly appreciate you comments and tipps. I have some replies and further questions (below).

 

That can't be true as a rule unless you hae some crippled version of avid. I have had many Avid users output HD QT reference files and use those to create discs.

 

When I try to export a Quicktime Reference file I am told by Avid Media Composer V. 2.7.5 that this option is not available for GOP material and I don't think that my Avid is crippled.

Could it be that the people you have in mind first downconverted their material to DV?

 

 

you could also output a QT file...though that will be a very large file. Go over to Avid's forum and see if you can get some tips on outputting a QT reference file from your material.

 

 

In the meantime, anticipating your suggestion, I actually have already made some experiments and the results for a small section of my film were promising. I am now in the process of applying the idea to the whole film.

 

Couple of things to check out:

 

1) don't use MPA audio. try to output either PCM or AC3 you will have more success. in fact, that could be the problem.

2) don't use VBR encoding in Squeeze. I suspect DVDit Pro HD is reencoding your file due to something illegal. I further suspect that for some reason DVDit Pro HD is detecting almost nil data at the location that is being cut off. ie, it's stopping the transcode at that location because it thinks the file is finished.

 

The audio as such was never a problem. Are you suggesting that a perfect mpa audio could cause a problem on the video side?

I did not go through Sorensen Squeeze, so I had not chosen VBR in Squeeze.

Inside DVDit Pro HD, it did not make a difference whether I chose CBR or VBR.

If your explanation of the stopping of the transcode is correct, and again I have had already the same idea and therefore I sympathize with it, then I still wonder why the transcoding did not stop much earlier. Looking just at the film's content, it could have stopped at any time before.

 

Further questions:

Is it wise to avoid compression inside Avid if you go through either Sorensen Squeeze and/or

DVDit Pro HD or both given that both Sorensen and DVDit do compressive transcoding?

Is it wise to go through Sorensen Squeeze given that DVDit Pro HD does its own transcoding?

What sort of coding is going on inside DVDit when Sorensen Squeeze has already been used/applied?

Do I get better quality if I let either Avid or Sorensen do the compression instead of DVDit Pro HD?

 

These questions have implications for my current experiment/strategy which is to

produce a quicktime movie using the Avid 1:1x codec which avoids any compression and thus has the disadvantage of outputting large files but has the advantage of being faster than a codec that does compress. I am currently applying this strategy and the machine is still working to produce the quicktime files. (It takes about 8 hours to output 1 hour of film.) When finished, I intend to avoid Sorensen and let DVDit do all the compression. As I said before, for a small section from the beginning of my film, the strategy worked. Soon I shall know whether the strategy works for the whole film. But if it does, further questions arise: Is the resulting quality the best? Is the strategy optimal? What are the tradeoffs between quality and speed of production?

 

 

Thank you for your support and attention.