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coriscapnskip

Homemade Dvd Is Copyrighted!?!

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To recap the agony which has consumed my life for the last four months, using iMovie 3.0.3 in my Macintosh G4, with extreme effort I assembled some titles and outtakes for a movie otherwise to be entirely dubbed directly from my Sony 8mm camcorder to VHS tape. The reason being, such gallons of blood, toil, sweat, and tears were expended for the relatively short amount of footage edited in iMovie under NO CONDITION was I going to try to edit ANYTHING CLOSE to the entire four hours, at least not in iMovie 3.0.3. By the time I finished, I had run into so many bugs in iMovie 3.0.3 I resolved to buy the latest version of iMovie before I'm ready to edit anything again.

 

The footage from my video camera was transferred to iMovie using a Canopus ADVC 110 converter, edited in iMovie, then burned to DVD using Toast 7 Titanium version 7.0.2 and a LaCie 16x4x16x Double Layer FireWire burner. http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?pid=10311

 

So far, so good, I had a DVD, but then I learned the player I had would play a DVD OR record a VHS tape but NOT BOTH AT THE SAME TIME! Refusing to be daunted, I used some jacks to connect the DVD player to a VCR and played the DVD while recording on the VCR. This worked fine for the opening and center titles since they were in black-and-white, but when I got to the color sequences, starting with the bows, the VCR would record them ONLY in black-and-white!

 

So I returned the DVD player, which was quite new, and used the money to buy this thing--a Zenith VCR/DVD burner at Radio Shack-- http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.js...04618&cp=2032...

to solve my problem.

 

It worked BEAUTIFULLY--or so it seemed. I finished recording the tape, in color, and my friend was able to run off any number of VHS tapes from it. Then he put my original VHS tapes into his Sony VCR/DVD RDR-VX 500 to make the DVDs. All worked well--UNTIL IT HIT THE BOWS, then the whole thing STOPPED DEAD! It said it was copyrighted material and could not be duplicated! This, from a homemade DVD I BURNED MYSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

My friend is savvy enough (heck, even I am *that* savvy) to know once the VHS tape is copied that should take care of any of that-type stuff. So he put in one of the VHS copies he had made of the tape to try to continue the DVD burning process and it did THE SAME THING AT THE SAME PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

What's more, if that DVD had been copyrighted, the Zenith should never have let me dub it to tape in the first place--it ought to know better! As soon as he called me with this news, I ran straight to the Zenith, put a blank VHS tape in, put a copy-protected DVD in, pressed "Dubbing," and sure enough, a message came right up, "Protected material is uncopyable" or the like.

 

Still, I can't help but suspect the Zenith as having had a hand in the nefarious business, as everything (INCLUDING the titles taken off the SAME DVD by way of the VCR) acted FINE up until the part done on the Zenith! I also have to suspect Toast, the LaCie, or both may be involved, as I dubbed ALL the camcorder material on that second tape on the Zenith and it worked fine.

 

I THINK THEY'RE ALL CONSPIRING AGAINST ME TO AT LAST DEPRIVE ME OF MY FEW REMAINING SHREDS OF SANITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

So here we are: my friend can dub any number of VHS tapes, but, EVEN THE COPIES have this "whatever-it-is" bug that was put on at some point either in the DVD-making process or in the dubbing process on the Zenith though I don't see how. Meaning, presumably, at least if other peoples' equipment acts like my friend's, even years in the future when people try to transfer their VHS tapes to DVD THEY WILL STOP BURNING IN THE SAME PLACE! Right at the bows. And might or might not tape in the sequences after that, EXCEPT, OF COURSE, those I edited in iMovie, ON WHICH I EXPENDED THE MOST HEARTBREAKING LABOR!

 

What's more, there are reasons we WANT DVD copies NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Now, of course I *could* just stick the VHS tape into the Zenith and dub a quickie DVD on the attached DVD burner, but it would of course copy the bug. The only other solution I have is for my friend to give me back the second tape, and me to run it back into iMovie starting at the problem part using the Canopus. This will mean purchasing the iMovie update right away, before I was planning to, as I REFUSE to use iMovie 3.0.3 EVER again. Now, since it's all edited already, this shouldn't mess up anything that's on the tape. My questions (which you knew I was getting to) are:

 

1. HOW CAN THIS HAVE HAPPENED?????????? WHAT CAN BE DONE TO PREVENT ITS HAPPENING EVERY TIME I WANT TO MAKE A DVD??????????????????

 

2. If I run the material from the VHS tape back to iMovie using the Canopus, will the Canopus "unencode" the problem area sufficiently that I can run the sequence back out through the Canopus onto another VHS tape so my friend can copy the movie onto DVD from that tape?

 

3. How can I find whatever the problem was in burning my DVD and fix it before I EVER burn another DVD? Was it in Toast, the LaCie burner, or some perversion specially wrought by the Zenith? Is there any possible way the problem could have been in iMovie 3.0.3 or did it happen after the footage left iMovie?

 

4. Am I really cursed and are all these machines really conspiring against me?

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I understand the conspiracy theory.

 

I don't understand why you are trying to make DVDs from the VHS tape that was recorded from a DVD. Why not just duplicate the DVD that you started with?

 

That aside, the problem could have been a defect in the original DVD media at that point. It could be the VHS tape recorded this defect which created this erroneously labeled error message. What brand of media did you use to burn the DVD with Toast? There's lots of poor quality media. Put another of those blank discs in your LaCie burner and then launch Toast. Now choose Disc Info from the Recorder menu. In the window that appears, next to the Manufacturer ID click the button labeled More. This will take you to a site where users have posted comments about that media (and others that are from the same source but with different brand names printed on them). If the reports aren't highly favorable I suggest trying a different brand. Verbatim media is commonly available and generally better than most.

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The reason the DVD copies my friend is making CAN'T be recorded directly from the DVD I made is because my DVD contained ONLY the material edited in iMovie. On the tape itself is well over an hour of material dubbed DIRECTLY from the camcorder to the VHS tape, interspersed with material from the DVD--I was switching back and forth between them and it took HOURS to do. To redo it I would basically have to redo the WHOLE TAPE from that point, or have nasty edit marks from hitting "Stop" before the parts I didn't replace.

 

I didn't even THINK to blame the media. I just filled out support forms for every software program and piece of hardware I used, plus my friend's machine. The media I used was Fujifilm DVD-R 4.7 GB/Go 120 Min Disc for Data and Video, up to 8x write speed. I don't know what my speed was but I clicked "Best" before burning if that tells anything. I suppose I can look the media up :) and if it's really awful maybe I can bring myself to remake the thing if I'm SURE the media is to blame and not some AWFUL hardware or software defect!

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Well, these people http://www.videohelp.com/dvdmedia.php?sele...=0#usercomments say the media is very good and has worked on all sorts of Sony products. Of course, my disk never had actual contact with the Sony, and no one mentions LaCie or Zenith products. I'd much rather it WAS the media--it's by far the most easily fixable of all items in the process. :)

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Well, these people http://www.videohelp.com/dvdmedia.php?sele...=0#usercomments say the media is very good and has worked on all sorts of Sony products. Of course, my disk never had actual contact with the Sony, and no one mentions LaCie or Zenith products. I'd much rather it WAS the media--it's by far the most easily fixable of all items in the process. :)

I was hoping it was the media but that doesn't seem to be it. You've done a good diagnosis of your options. The first thing I'd try is to use the Zenith to make a DVD from the VHS tape. Make sure you finalize that DVD after recording (that's something you need to do with the Zenith, but is not something that needs to be done when recording DVDs with Toast). Hopefully this will work; I'm concerned the Zenith will have trouble at that one point as well. Assuming it works you should have no trouble using Toast to make duplicate DVDs. See Toast Help about using the Toast Copy window to duplicate discs.

 

You don't need to use iMovie again if you were to use the Canopus to import the entire video back to your computer. You could use the freeware application Vidi to import the video. Then drag that imported video to Toast for encoding to DVD. I'd do a test first where I just imported starting near the point where the error appeared.

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Predictably, LaCie and Zenith both say it isn't them. LaCie also says the problem isn't in Toast. Guess they've never heard of such a problem.

 

I emailed my friend asking him to Fast Forward ahead on the tape to one of the other five sections done from the DVD. If those WILL record on his Sony, then the problem was ONLY in the one section. In that case, the first thing I'd do is give him my original DVD and see if he can dub just that section directly from my DVD to his DVD. If not, recording the material to DVD on the Zenith is a good option because I'd start right before the bows, so if it had a problem, it would be apparent right away.

 

In any case, THANK GOODNESS it is not necessary to go through iMovie again! I just plunked down a huge amount of cash for a car payment, then paid car insurance, life insurance, and still have taxes (which I refused to work on until this whole ordeal was over--had the papers in front of me when my friend called and rushed straight to the computer, so taxes are still hanging over my head--) I was NOT looking forward to plunking down for another computer program, in fact, after this I didn't want to think of it, for, oh, a couple months. :)

 

Anyhow, one of these ought to work without going into a total panic.

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Still waiting to learn my friend's results on dubbing the other DVD-originated material from VHS to DVD. He doesn't have the capacity to dub directly from DVD to DVD so that's not an option--I guess if I gave him a DVD he'd have to dub it to VHS before he could dub it to DVD. I'd be delighted to absolutely ascertain that the problem was caused by switching back and forth between the DVD and the camcorder and that it's not something with my DVD burner or the DVD authoring program causing EVERY DVD I make to have this issue! Because if I make my next movie entirely on DVD, (which I planned to) and he tries to dub it to VHS, (which he will) THEN WHAT???

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What I'll probably have to do on future projects is give my friend a VHS tape made by running all the material out of the computer through the Canopus--since I won't be going back to dubbing from the camcorder if the entire project has been all edited in the computer--and when it's being dubbed from DVDs it seems to be picking up something along the way telling my friend's equipment not to make more copies.

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I now definitely believe that CGMS, CPRM protection, or some such thing is occurring. My friend tried dubbing again, and his Sony dubs everything taken off the camcorder, then stops dead again at the next section taken off the DVD. That eliminates all other offered explanations, such as extraneous noise, out of synch, etc.

 

But where was the CPRM protection put on? When the disk was burned, meaning I should jump on LaCie, the makers of the DVD burner, and Toast, the makers of the DVD authoring program? Or when the material was transferred from DVD to VHS, meaning I should jump more heavily on Zenith? It's my inclination to blame Zenith but don't want to jump on the wrong ones.

 

In a way I'm glad thousands are in the same boat, as manufacturers in the future will have to deal with it!

 

I also heartily concur with the person who said running it into and back out of the Canopus, besides further wasting my time and aggravating me, is going to really deterioriorate the quality. And I think we ALL AGREE that I DON'T want to reedit the entire tape from that point on in iMovie! Before spending 80 bucks on another piece of equipment to copy copy-protected material, and then having to wait for the equipment to arrive, could I do something like this?

 

http://danslagle.com/mac/iMovie/tips_tricks/6010.shtml

 

I glanced over it as one option among several, so maybe someone here will understand it better than I. Can I do it without buying more equipment? Should I do it to the entire contents of the affected portion of the tape--even the parts without the problem? Thanks.

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I don't know what to suggest, but the video does not have copy protection. The LaCie can't just create copy protection from nowhere and Toast has no ability to add copy protection to any video it encodes. Even iMovie cannot create copy protection. So the error appearing on the Sony screen is not a true description of the problem. Something else is causing the Sony to choke at that point and when it can't read the signal it assumes that the video is copy protected even when it is not.

 

Try this: put the burned DVD in your LaCie drive and open Toast 7. Click the Media button in the Toast window to enter the Media Browser. Select DVD with the top button in the browser. Your DVD should be listed in the browser window. Go down one level with the lower button. Now a thumbnail image of the video on the DVD should appear. If you see a padlock instead of the thumbnail image then Toast recognizes the disc as being copy protected. Let me know.

 

Do you still have the iMovie project on your hard drive from which Toast created the DVD?

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It's a thumbnail image all right, but guess what it made me do as soon as I inserted the disk. Set a Region Code! It never said anything about a Region Code when I made the disk! I chose Region Code 1--I hope that was all right. But I always understood homemade disks were region-free! Could its previous lack of a Region Code (or whatever) have anything to do with the problems encountered after the material was transferred to VHS?

 

Also, will the LaCie always make me set a Region Code? Does this mean I can't share my disks with friends in other countries, which I was counting on doing, or that I must learn their codes and encode each disk for any overseas friends accordingly?

 

Yes, I still have the material in iMovie and on my Hard Drive. The thing is, to make the tape play EXACTLY the way I had it edited, I'd have to either make a new DVD or fix the one I have to not show as copy protected or whatever the Sony thinks it is, then dub EXACTLY over ONLY the sections on the tape taken from the DVD, which are in between perfectly all right sections taken from the camcorder--that, or redo the whole thing!

 

I was trying to find a way around this but so far haven't seen it. :)

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It's a thumbnail image all right, but guess what it made me do as soon as I inserted the disk. Set a Region Code! It never said anything about a Region Code when I made the disk! I chose Region Code 1--I hope that was all right. But I always understood homemade disks were region-free! Could its previous lack of a Region Code (or whatever) have anything to do with the problems encountered after the material was transferred to VHS?

 

Also, will the LaCie always make me set a Region Code? Does this mean I can't share my disks with friends in other countries, which I was counting on doing, or that I must learn their codes and encode each disk for any overseas friends accordingly?

 

Yes, I still have the material in iMovie and on my Hard Drive. The thing is, to make the tape play EXACTLY the way I had it edited, I'd have to either make a new DVD or fix the one I have to not show as copy protected or whatever the Sony thinks it is, then dub EXACTLY over ONLY the sections on the tape taken from the DVD, which are in between perfectly all right sections taken from the camcorder--that, or redo the whole thing!

 

I was trying to find a way around this but so far haven't seen it. :)

You have the most interesting experiences with this. The Toast-burned DVDs are all-region so they will play anywhere. I know the Apple Superdrives have to set a region code the first time a video DVD is inserted. That code can be changed five times and then it is locked forever to whatever the last code was. I don't know if this is also true with the LaCie drives.

 

If I'm following this correctly the final project with everything on it is on the DVD. In the Toast Video window choose DVD video as the format. Go back to the Media Browser and drag your video title from the browser to the Video window. Toast will extract the MPEG video from the DVD and write the file to the Roxio Converted Items folder (in the Documents folder). When that is done, select the title in video window and click the Export button at the bottom. In the window that appears click the button next to Format: and choose DV as the format. Now export the video (you'll need 12 GB hard drive space per hour of video).

 

Now go to this page - Simple Video Out X - where you can download and read instructions for using Simple Video Out X with your Canopus box. You'll be able to play the DV video exported by Toast via Firewire through your Canopus box to your VCR.

 

Let me know if you have any questions. The instructions on that site are pretty good.

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Yeah, that would be the way to convert the material off the DVD, though more likely I would opt for taking it straight out of iMovie and leave the DVD out of it entirely.

 

If I have to, this is what I'll do, make a VHS tape by taking the material out of iMovie through the Canopus.

 

Then I will have to VEEERRRRRYYY CAAARRRREFULLY dub over the material that came off the DVD, in such a way as to cover as much as possible of it WITHOUT cutting into the video dubbed from the camcorder, or I'll end up redoing all THAT, too.

 

I just wish there was another way, like, if the problem is with the Zenith and there's some way to reprogram it so it won't do that in the first place, I could just redo the DVD material from the DVD itself and save exporting the material to a VHS tape from the Canopus to a VCR connected to it, then connecting that VCR to the Zenith and switching back and forth between viewing what's on which VCR during the dubbing.

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I know the Apple Superdrives have to set a region code the first time a video DVD is inserted. That code can be changed five times and then it is locked forever to whatever the last code was. I don't know if this is also true with the LaCie drives.

 

It looks like it. With any luck, it will also be true of the drives on the computers of my friends in other lands. I could suggest, if I send them a DVD and it doesn't play on their DVD player, to put it in their computer drive. Then they can encode it with their own region code and maybe it will play fine. :)

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Besides the solutions (or complications if you prefer) I've already put forth, I've come up with two more.

 

1. Running some sort of program on my friend's Sony to make it not do what it's doing. Unlike Zenith and LaCie, who have been very cooperative, Sony has not so much as acknowledged my support request, so I don't know if this is even an option. Also, I HATE to suggest to my friend having anything done to his equipment. I keep telling him I'll fix the whole situation when I figure out the best way how.

 

2. Asking a friend who does professional video services, including duplication, whether he either has equipment, or knows who does, to run a VHS copy of my videotape and remove whatever encoding is on those DVD sections, so I can give my friend a CLEAN copy of the tape from which to dub without having to do ANYTHING to my original! I plan to email him in about 8 and a half hours, just as soon as the 13th is over. Sure, it will be Friday then, but I consider Friday much less of a jinx than the 13th, so will take my chances.

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On Friday I took the VHS tape to my friend who is a professional videographer. He said the tape would take real time (two hours) to transfer to his equipment, then SIX HOURS to "encode." Whatever he does ought to either make ALL of it work for my friend doing the duplicates, or NONE of it!

 

By the way, he couldn't figure out what went wrong with my DVD either and he's done this for a living for years.

 

If it still doesn't work, I will re-edit the entire second tape (not just the part that won't dub) in the computer so it will ALL be in there, in order, assembled more neatly than was possible dubbing from the camcorder, then output straight to VHS, but I hope this works and it doesn't come to that.

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Not to borrow trouble, but there's another reason I hope my professional friend's solution works. If I have to redo the entire second half of the project, either in iMovie or in another editing program, I'm probably screwed no matter what. The reason being, iMovie 3.0.3 had all these bugs, such as the phantom sound I never got rid of--I simply pasted in eight minutes of black to cover over the bad spot on the timeline which seemingly couldn't be fixed!

 

What's more, I never found a way to export the edited material ONLY from an iMovie Project to a new iMovie Project to start over. In the export/import process, iMovie 3.0.3 breaks it all into separate clips, in its OWN order, so all the king's horses and all the king's men, could not get what I edited back together again. The ONLY way I found to duplicate the material, either in iMovie OR on DVD, was make an EXACT COPY of the WHOLE project--bugs and all! Another big reason I wanted to edit only a brief necessary bit in iMovie, and not do ANY movies all the way through until I have a MUCH better program!

 

Now, if I upgrade to iMovie 6, I'm probably still screwed as it will scramble or undo something I did in iMovie 3, so I may lose my editing and STILL not be able to get rid of the bugs! So I really hope my friend transferring and reencoding the material works!

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P. S. My professional friend called that the DVD is done. I'm trying to get him to look at this discussion before I pick it up. I also left a message on the machine of the friend doing the duplicating, as I'm danged if I'm driving 30 miles out and 25 miles back (to his house which is between my and the other guy's places) in the rain to pick it up and deliver it to him if he's not even going to be home.

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While I'm not sure that I fully understand the nature of the problem, I've been watching this thread with much interest. Two programmes that leap to mind that might be able to assist in this problem are MTR, the traditional solution to copy protection schemes, and DVDxDV. The latter should be able to pull all the material off the DVD and convert it into a digital video file. While the size of that file is large, it would support reediting the material. I hope that your method has arrived at a solution, though it seems over complicated.

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Well, the professional completely reencoded the ENTIRE second half of the show when he placed it on DVD. That means whatever was on my DVD, however it got there, should no longer be there or at least not be an issue. We'll know for sure when my friend goes to dub it.

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Ok, im totally confused. I understand macrovision (copyproected) scemes and would have no idea how it got there. Toast, as others have said, does not add that. It could be a bad disc as others have siad as well.

My other question to you is, (this is commical if I'm reading correctly) is why would you want to make a DVD of a vhs, dubbed from a dvd, from DV from imovie, dubbed from vhs, dubbed from Hi 8mm tape. I can only imagine the quality loss by going throgh 3 analog sources, 2 compresed formats (dvd), and yet alone the low resolution of vhs. The original Hi 8 souce sould of been fed direclty into imovie to loose a little as possible.

But since the movie is done being eidited, I say you should only make a copy of a dvd to dvd using toast. And if somehow copy protection ended up there (as i said, makes no sence), use mac the ripper to remove it.

If you have a bad disc, I say reencode it from the original sorce (imovie). If thats gone, I guess the VHS is the only way.

 

I hope this helps. I know video very well, and feel free to PM if you have any issues or questions. I know how to convert any format into any format.

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Ok, im totally confused.

 

This one confused everyone.

 

My other question to you is, (this is commical if I'm reading correctly) is why would you want to make a DVD of a vhs, dubbed from a dvd, from DV from imovie, dubbed from vhs, dubbed from Hi 8mm tape. I can only imagine the quality loss by going throgh 3 analog sources, 2 compresed formats (dvd), and yet alone the low resolution of vhs. The original Hi 8 souce sould of been fed direclty into imovie to loose a little as possible.

 

That's what everyone was telling me, but, BUT! This was the first time I had used iMovie for anything, and I was suffering such agonies just to edit a few short pieces I couldn't stand the THOUGHT of feeding the whole thing in. Not to mention, I'd been told that iMovie gives out after about an hour and a half, and the movie is four hours long! Someone later said that meant that no CLIP could be longer than an hour and a half, not that no PROJECT could. I still don't know which, if either, is true, as I haven't tried doing anything long in iMovie. :) I will after I upgrade to iMovie 6 and am ready to try another project. THE TERROR! :huh:

 

But since the movie is done being eidited, I say you should only make a copy of a dvd to dvd using toast. And if somehow copy protection ended up there (as i said, makes no sence), use mac the ripper to remove it.

 

There you've got me. No idea what this is, where to find it, or how to use it.

 

If you have a bad disc, I say reencode it from the original sorce (imovie). If thats gone, I guess the VHS is the only way.

 

It isn't gone, but to people saying, just output from the original source (iMovie) through the Canopus, I tried to explain that what I had by the time the project was finished and the problem discovered was a VHS tape with sections dubbed from the DVD intercut with sections dubbed from the camcorder. To replace the affected sections I'd have to be EXTREMELY careful and lucky, redo most or all of the entire ending from the bows on, or both. Either way it would have involved a LOT more editing I was willing to PAY MONEY to avoid, AND DID!

 

I hope this helps. I know video very well, and feel free to PM if you have any issues or questions. I know how to convert any format into any format.

 

Well, having the professional redo the entire second tape onto DVD seems to have worked as I haven't heard from my friend doing the dubbing. With any luck from now on I'll do each ENTIRE project on iMovie and output probably directly to VHS, since, as I stated, my friend can't dub from DVD to DVD and what would be the sense in my making a DVD that a) would have to be dubbed to VHS before he could use it and :D may falsely register as copy-protected on my friend's equipment? It would seem that for our purposes, with the equipment we have, it would be best to use my Canopus to output the iMovie projects intended to be duplicated by my friend to VHS. This doesn't mean, of course, that I can't try to make my own DVDs and duplicate some of them for friends, which I will probably also do.

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