Validate Project Files Before or Without Recording

[rtbt]

Hello:

 

In version 5 of CD Creator, there was an option located under Files on the Main Menu where I could Validate Files, save the project, and then come back at a later date and time to record a backup. However, under version 7.5, the only way files are validated is during an actual recording session. The Poject files are validated before the recording, which is a good thing.

 

However, I want the option to simply Validate the Project files without recording a new backup. Can someone please advise if I can do such. Per the help files, that option should be available, but I don't see Validate listed under Files.

 

Thanks,

rtbt

[james_hardin]

Hello:

 

In version 5 of CD Creator, there was an option located under Files on the Main Menu where I could Validate Files, save the project, and then come back at a later date and time to record a backup. However, under version 7.5, the only way files are validated is during an actual recording session. The Poject files are validated before the recording, which is a good thing.

 

However, I want the option to simply Validate the Project files without recording a new backup. Can someone please advise if I can do such. Per the help files, that option should be available, but I don't see Validate listed under Files.

 

Thanks,

rtbt

 

Don't follow your logic with this??? There is really no point in validating files unless you are burning.

 

However you can burn in Test Only and accomplish the same thing.

 

You should also be aware that Validate will test the files using Joliet limitations which are quickly exceeded in XP/W2K. This will truncate filenames and often drop files from the actual burn. Most of us use the UDF file system along with No Bridge and turn Validate off.

 

Otherwise the only useful thing Validate does is check to see if the file in the Project is actually present at the source location.

[rtbt]

Dave:

 

I realize that Validating the Project doesn't add new files, which it should. I don't understand why Roxio doesn't add that feature. After all, the process captures files that were deleted, why can't it also capture new ones and automatically add them to the Project?

 

Anyway, the frustration is as follows. If I'm recording a new CD, Roxio finds deleted files and asks if I want to permanently DELETE those files from the Project. Of course I do, that's why I deleted them in the first place, so I answer YES. However, immediately after the recording is over, the current project is removed from view so I cannot SAVE the updated project, thereby removing the "deleted files" from the Project. In essence, CD Creator asks if I want to permanently delete those files but never gives me the option of then saving the Project. So the next time I record a CD, the deleted files are still there. Someone hasn't clearly thought out this process.

 

If they would put the Validate Files option back where it belongs under Files, I could then run Validation and SAVE the Project which would then permanently remove the deleted files. Per the help file, the Validate Files option should be under Files on the Main Menu, but it isn't. And Dave, you said it's also missing in Ver 8. Why?Is that a bug?

 

Lynn, I don't understand why you brought up the CD vs CD-RW issue. Am I missing something because that has nothing to do with my question.

 

rtbt

[rtbt]

Don't follow your logic with this??? There is really no point in validating files unless you are burning.

 

However you can burn in Test Only and accomplish the same thing.

 

You should also be aware that Validate will test the files using Joliet limitations which are quickly exceeded in XP/W2K. This will truncate filenames and often drop files from the actual burn. Most of us use the UDF file system along with No Bridge and turn Validate off.

 

Otherwise the only useful thing Validate does is check to see if the file in the Project is actually present at the source location.

 

 

Don't follow your logic with this??? There is really no point in validating files unless you are burning.

Hello James:

 

I'm constantly updating/modifying files that are part of my project. In ver 5, when I ran the validation process, it checked for all files that were modified or deleted by me and updated them so I was always backing up the latest version of the file. Obviously I don't want to back up an out of date Project.

 

Very often I just want to validate/update the changed files and then SAVE the updated Project without going through the process of running the actual backup. In addition, the Validation process catches files that were DELETED and then I can SAVE the Project after those files were removed.

 

However, when doing an actual backup, CD Creator asks if I want to remove the deleted files from the Project, I answer Yes but there's no way to SAVE those changes. So the next time I run a backup, the deleted files are still part of the Project. Did I explain this properly?

 

Per the Help Files I can do such, but the following menu item does NOT appear on my menu.

 

Validating a project

Validating a project allows you to verify that the source contents have not been moved, deleted, renamed, or modified since you added them to the project. If an item cannot be found, you are prompted to delete the item from the project before recording the project to disc.

 

To validate a CD project:

Choose File > Validate Project.

[lynn98109]

Lynn, I don't understand why you brought up the CD vs CD-RW issue. Am I missing something because that has nothing to do with my question.

 

rtbt

 

Yes, you are missing something.

 

If you "delete" a file, it is still there on the CD, taking just as much space as before. All the "delete" does is remove it from the TOC (Table of Contents).

 

If you build the project incrementally on your CD-R, it is not really the same as if you do an update on a magnetic or flash drive, where you actually change the data. Once the laser has created a pit (depression) or land (leaving it flat), it STAYS that way. And since the data is physical rather than magnetic, that is why CD-Rs are such good backup devices (altho nothing with computers is perfect).

 

You CAN do incremental additions by simply adding all files subsequent to a given date. However, for really synchronizing something, making a new copy is your best bet.

 

I think it comes down to, you were using a function (Validate) in a away different from what was originally intended, and it worked very well for you. However, since it was not among the aims of the programmers, something was changed, and it doesn't work that way any more. Unfortunately, from your persepctive, it comes down to SOL.

 

Lynn

[d_deweywright]

Yes, you are missing something.

 

If you "delete" a file, it is still there on the CD, taking just as much space as before. All the "delete" does is remove it from the TOC (Table of Contents).

Lynn, he's talking about updating the project file (the old .CL5 file in ECDC 5), not the project on CD. It sounds like he's writing a new CD each time, so it's not an issue of the space on the CD being not returned, but with the new version, he can't have EMC update the project file that he's reusing.

 

RTBT,

As for ECDC/EMC not adding new files, it's a design thing. All of the projects are "file based," not "directory based". That is, even if you drop a whole directory into your project, EMC adds each file, and doesn't keep track of the fact that you added the whole directory. It's not meant to be a backup utility that way. There are other programs that do work that way, tracking changes made to a directory, and adding new files, or changed ones. Accuburn-R is one such program. But, to repeat, EMC project files are not meant to be a backup utility as you (and others) would like. One of the reasons I've never bothered keeping and reusing Data CD project files. It's just as easy to rebuild them each time to guarantee I get everything. (But, I also run image backups for things too.)

 

I know that doesn't help much, but that's how the project files work. Is there an option, when EMC asks about deleted files to "Cancel"? At which point, you could manually remove the file from the project, and save it then?

[lynn98109]

Lynn, he's talking about updating the project file (the old .CL5 file in ECDC 5), not the project on CD. It sounds like he's writing a new CD each time, so it's not an issue of the space on the CD being not returned, but with the new version, he can't have EMC update the project file that he's reusing.

Ah.

 

When the .CL4 files weren't readable in ECDC 5, I managed to get the info out onto insert cards, and haven't kept those files since, on the assumption they wouldn't be readable by any future Version.

 

Lynn

[rtbt]

Hello Lynn:

 

I don't think you understand what I'm doing. I'm saving a Project in Roxio on my hard drive that contains all of the data files I back up on a daily basis. Each time I back up I either erase a CD-RW and do an entire/new backup of the Project or a elect to use a CD-R. So that isn't an issue.

 

rtbt

[rtbt]

Hello Dave:

 

You made some excellent points, I appreciate your feedback.

 

Although CD Creator apparently wasn't designed to be a data backup, except for this annoying problem with deleted files, it does a fairly decent job. Of course I also back up my files online and to a Flash Drive, both of which are much easier than using CD Creator. However, I like the idea of storing data CDs in a fireproof safe and/or at my friend's house as a collateral backup in case of burglary, fire, and/or a hurricane. Guess you could say I'm a backup fantatic.

 

Yes Dave, I can cancel and then manually delete the files but that's a real pain. In fact, that's what I actually do after recording a backup. I try to remember which files were deleted and then manually remove them from the project. In version 5 that was a non-issue because I would simply run Validate Files, the program would automatically find all of the deleted files, and I would simply choose to delete them and SAVE the project.

 

Per the help file, that option should be available under the File Menu and it isn't there. You said it's also missing from Ver 8 so I'll ask the question again. Is this a bug? I wish it were there because it would make updating my daily backups so much easier.

 

Thanks,

rtbt

 

 

Hi Dave:

 

One other point. Since CD Creator does NOT find new files added to the folder since the Project was originally created, I will periodically drag the updated folder from my hard drive to the saved project to ensure that all NEW files are included in the project. That's a lot easier than trying to remember to add them manually to the project after they're created.

 

I guess that's fairly similar to what you do, however, I don't have the time nor energy to re-create my backup project every day. That would be far too much work and turn this into an onerous process. Creating the project with all of my data files and saving them for daily re-use is much more efficient for me.

 

rtbt

 

[d_deweywright]

Hello Dave:

 

You made some excellent points, I appreciate your feedback.

 

Although CD Creator apparently wasn't designed to be a data backup, except for this annoying problem with deleted files, it does a fairly decent job. Of course I also back up my files online and to a Flash Drive, both of which are much easier than using CD Creator. However, I like the idea of storing data CDs in a fireproof safe and/or at my friend's house as a collateral backup in case of burglary, fire, and/or a hurricane. Guess you could say I'm a backup fantatic.

 

Yes Dave, I can cancel and then manually delete the files but that's a real pain. In fact, that's what I actually do after recording a backup. I try to remember which files were deleted and then manually remove them from the project. In version 5 that was a non-issue because I would simply run Validate Files, the program would automatically find all of the deleted files, and I would simply choose to delete them and SAVE the project.

 

Per the help file, that option should be available under the File Menu and it isn't there. You said it's also missing from Ver 8 so I'll ask the question again. Is this a bug? I wish it were there because it would make updating my daily backups so much easier.

 

Thanks,

rtbt

Hi Dave:

 

One other point. Since CD Creator does NOT find new files added to the folder since the Project was originally created, I will periodically drag the updated folder from my hard drive to the saved project to ensure that all NEW files are included in the project. That's a lot easier than trying to remember to add them manually to the project after they're created.

 

I guess that's fairly similar to what you do, however, I don't have the time nor energy to re-create my backup project every day. That would be far too much work and turn this into an onerous process. Creating the project with all of my data files and saving them for daily re-use is much more efficient for me.

 

rtbt

 

Backup Fanatic might indeed be an appropriate moniker. But, being a fanatic about backups is not without its merits. I run weekly incremental backup images of my boot drive to a second internal drive, and occasionally (monthly?) write them to optical media. I also run GoBack which keeps a running backup of files on my primary drive, and is usually good for about a week. (Obviously, if the drive goes bad, that weeks worth of data is gone.) Stuff on my second and third drives is usually data that can be recreated relatively easily, or is already backed up elsewhere. I can see where the daily ritual would be onerous the way you have to do it now.

 

Do I think it's a "bug"? Well, one man's bug is another man's feature. It's one of those changes between versions. In your case, it's a definite bug, or at least an omission. Depending on your level of pain for continuing your backups as you are, I'd suggest looking at other products as mentioned above. (I have no affiliation with Infinadyne, and receive no remuneration for suggesting their product.) It might make your life significantly easier.

 

Ah Ha! I haven't played much with the Roxio Backup option, but just now tried it again. It looks like it'll do what you want, but there's a caveat. It creates a single backup file that you have to use the "Retrieve" program to open and extract the files with. It's directory based, so, you tell it what directories you want, and if you add files, or delete files, when you run the backup, it automatically grabs the new files, and doesn't concern itself about the files that are no longer there.

 

Maybe that'll get you where you want to be? (Again, I'm running EMC 8, but I think it may also be in EMC 7?)

[lynn98109]

Ah Ha! I haven't played much with the Roxio Backup option, but just now tried it again. It looks like it'll do what you want, but there's a caveat. It creates a single backup file that you have to use the "Retrieve" program to open and extract the files with. It's directory based, so, you tell it what directories you want, and if you add files, or delete files, when you run the backup, it automatically grabs the new files, and doesn't concern itself about the files that are no longer there.

 

Maybe that'll get you where you want to be? (Again, I'm running EMC 8, but I think it may also be in EMC 7?)

Maybe "Retrieve" was improved, but after reading some of the frantic posts from people trying to use Retrieve in Version 6, especially on the OLD Roxio boards, there's no way I'd consider being dependent on it. (shudder)

 

Lynn

[d_deweywright]

Maybe "Retrieve" was improved, but after reading some of the frantic posts from people trying to use Retrieve in Version 6, especially on the OLD Roxio boards, there's no way I'd consider being dependent on it. (shudder)

 

Lynn

I'm thinking it's a different animal altogether. The Retrieve from V6 was for files split across drives, to put them back together. This is more like an "unzip" utility, or the Drive Image Explorer to open an image type file. But maybe it's similar.

[d_deweywright]

However, when doing an actual backup, CD Creator asks if I want to remove the deleted files from the Project, I answer Yes but there's no way to SAVE those changes. So the next time I run a backup, the deleted files are still part of the Project. Did I explain this properly?

I guess I see what you're doing, using the "Validate Project" to update the project file, though that won't include new files in a directory. At the end of actually burning an updated project in EMC 7.5, you're saying that selecting File -> Save Project doesn't save the project with the deleted files gone? (Presumably this would work after doing a test burn too.)

 

But, I have EMC 8 installed here, and you're right, there doesn't appear to be a separate "Validate" option like there was with ECDC 5. I've never used data CD projects like you are, so it's never been an issue for me.

[lynn98109]

I guess I see what you're doing, using the "Validate Project" to update the project file, though that won't include new files in a directory. At the end of actually burning an updated project in EMC 7.5, you're saying that selecting File -> Save Project doesn't save the project with the deleted files gone? (Presumably this would work after doing a test burn too.)

 

But, I have EMC 8 installed here, and you're right, there doesn't appear to be a separate "Validate" option like there was with ECDC 5. I've never used data CD projects like you are, so it's never been an issue for me.

Then again, the price of CD-Rs has come down enormously since ECDC 5 came out.

 

And if you "delete" a file from a CD-R or CD-RW, you DON'T get the space back, you just remove it from the TOC [Table of Contents].

 

It is NOT an "additonal Hard Drive".

 

Seems to me it'd make more sense to just burn a fresh CD-R.

 

Or use something that is much more like an "additonal Hard Drive", like a Flash drive (aka Jump / Pen / Thumb / Keychain drive).

 

Lynn

[rtbt]

Validate a Project guidance is the same in version 7.5. However, the help file also states the Validate Files option can be found under Files on the Main Menu and it isn't there.

 

I'm going to take a look at Backup Project and give it a try if it does what I need. At first glance, it seems to be a better option for backing up data files. However, I obviously won't know that until I start using the program.

 

Thanks to everyone for the interesting and valuable feedback.

 

rtbt

[kcider]

I have just found this thred thru google and must say I too am p***ed off at the lack of a 'validate project' on the menu pull down.

 

My projects usually consist of a few files from this folder, 2 from that folder, 5 from that & all from that, that & that. - I find it hard to remember all the files each time I do a CD burn.

 

I am constantly updating the files in the folders and often do a 'saveas' to a new project just so the new project as the same files as the last and then gets updated as needed. Validate project is great for making sure all the file are there. I like to validate my project and then save it. - what is the point of saving an 'invalid' project!!!

 

I think that removing this feature in the guise of 'progress' is one thing - BUT the biggest issue, that rubs salt into the wound, is that it DOES NOT LET YOU SAVE YOUR PROJECT AFTER VALIDATING. When you do a 'burn' it does the validate and then deletes files or updates things - i.e. it changes your project - but then at the end of the burn it throws these changes away and discards the project for a completely new blank one. Why won't it prompt you for a 'save' before closing the project?

 

I am disappointed to hear that V8 does not allow validation before burning, I won't be rushing to buy it yet.

 

Can anyone tell me if V8 also throws away the changes to the project(s) at the end of burn a CD??? If it doesn't then it may be worth upgrading just to be able to save the updated project after validation.

 

Cheers

 

K 8%

[rtbt]

Hello:

 

Please disregard my previous comments about Backup Project. I tried it out and selecting the files was a piece of cake, however, the rest of application seemed like a true waste of my time and CDs. After the backup I couldn't even read the data on the CD even though only 200 mb were still free.

 

Guess I'll have to deal with the anomalies of CD Creator a little longer. Thankfully backing up to CD is not my primary form of backup.

 

rtbt

[d_deweywright]

Hello:

 

Please disregard my previous comments about Backup Project. I tried it out and selecting the files was a piece of cake, however, the rest of application seemed like a true waste of my time and CDs. After the backup I couldn't even read the data on the CD even though only 200 mb were still free.

 

Guess I'll have to deal with the anomalies of CD Creator a little longer. Thankfully backing up to CD is not my primary form of backup.

 

rtbt

Did you use the "Retrieve" program to open up the backup file? Was there an error with it opening the backup file? Just curious. In my test, I wrote to a file on HD.

[rtbt]

Do I think it's a "bug"? Well, one man's bug is another man's feature. It's one of those changes between versions. In your case, it's a definite bug, or at least an omission

 

Dave:

 

I think it's a bug only because the Help file clearly states the Validate feature is found under Files on the Main Menu. Since it's missing, either it's a bug or the help file is wrong.

 

rtbt

[james_hardin]

Dave:

 

I think it's a bug only because the Help file clearly states the Validate feature is found under Files on the Main Menu. Since it's missing, either it's a bug or the help file is wrong.

 

rtbt

 

I skip one day and this thread exploded!

 

Rtbt: I understand what you have said and do not "disagree" with your logic. However the program has changed and "backups" are no longer a part of Classic at least not as a Data project.

 

You have to enter the realm of the Backup Project. For better or worse, the software has changed and you have to learn how it works.

 

Backup has been completely removed from V8 Classic! It is a separate program.

 

I would say that the Help file was wrong, as it was updated in V8 to say:

 

" To validate a CD project:

 

Click Project Settings (or choose File > Project Settings), and then click General.

 

The Project Properties General page dialog box appears.

 

Select the Validate source files before recording check box, and then click OK."

 

So it is still not going to work the way you want it to, but the Help file now correctly reflects the software…

[d_deweywright]

I skip one day and this thread exploded!

 

Rtbt: I understand what you have said and do not "disagree" with your logic. However the program has changed and "backups" are no longer a part of Classic at least not as a Data project.

 

You have to enter the realm of the Backup Project. For better or worse, the software has changed and you have to learn how it works.

 

Backup has been completely removed from V8 Classic! It is a separate program.

 

I would say that the Help file was wrong, as it was updated in V8 to say:

 

" To validate a CD project:

 

Click Project Settings (or choose File > Project Settings), and then click General.

 

The Project Properties General page dialog box appears.

 

Select the Validate source files before recording check box, and then click OK."

 

So it is still not going to work the way you want it to, but the Help file now correctly reflects the software…

Yep... I looked that up too. But he has V7 or 7.5. I don't recall what the exact backup options were.

[rtbt]

Did you use the "Retrieve" program to open up the backup file? Was there an error with it opening the backup file? Just curious. In my test, I wrote to a file on HD.

 

Hello Dave:

 

No, I didn't see any option labeled "Retrieve". However, there was an option to "Restore" files.

 

When I backed up to a CD, even though more than 400 mb were used on the CD-R, I could not see any files via Windows Explorer. It appeared as if it was an empty disc. I never tried using Roxio to open a file on the CD, so I don't know if that would have worked. However, I did try your suggestion of backing up to the Hard Drive and that was a piece of cake. The program apparently uses a .qic extension which I could access via Roxio's "Retrieve" function and restore files back to their original location [or somewhere else].

 

It appears as if one needs Roxio to open and then retrieve files from that .qic backup. That's a disadvantage versus using CD Creator where you can simply copy files from the CD to any computer.